mj

I just left the "Problems with Kronos" thread, so I have been 'listening to' a portion of the Halleluljah chorus from Handel's Messiah.

God does not take the day off, Tina...Sunday is one of His busiest days (more prayers to listen to...more praises going up...you know)! Many Christians regard it as a day of rest.

I keep hearing the Hallejuah chorus from Handel's Messiah.....

I have to confess that I watched JAG regularly until it moved to Friday nights. However, JAG is not Star Trek! I will be there ( or my VCR will). I think the problem is that Enterprise has to have more good episodes, like they did this season.

You need to directly ask the person who used it what he meant.

that's why i said it was a new idea- B&B have created the "mess" it's just an idea to solve the plot problems of (1) the Vulcan's have knowledge of the Romulans, past "history" with them. (2) Earth doesn't have a strong starfleet, needs a reason for building up a large fleet. (3) The Vulcan High-Command has a much more advanced/powerful starfleet in 2154/ there has to be an explaination as to where/what happened to it? Why is the Federation Starfleet dominataed by Earth Designed/Named Starships? where did all the Vulcan starships go?

I like the plot idea of the humans entering a war that started out to be with the Vulcans, but I disagree with a couple of points.

First, I think the build-up in star fleet is happening NOW, as a result of the Xindi attack, and the fact that no one came to the aid of earth! There should be a lot of new ships when Enterprise gets back, and a rapid build-up program in place.

Second, if the Vulcans join the Federation, they are going to share a lot of technology with humans, as will other species, so the ships may have a lot of human design, but they will have alien elements as well.

Destroying the bulk of the Vulcan fleet--well what about Andoria? Wouldn't they take advatange? Has the Federation already been formed?

The Vulcans during Spock's era were still slow to actually serve in star fleet...they were still adjusting to working with humans directly even though they were allies. Where were they? On vulcan vessels! Remember that Tuvok didn't make it in his first attempt to serve with star fleet, and that in Voyager they were still secretive about that seven-year cycle. Yet there were many vessels of all Vulcans ( and wasn't there one still in DS9) in Spock's era, mostly science. The Vulcans are one of the most highly regarded species in the Federation ( established in the TOS episode " Journey to Babel"). I do not think they have to be weakened in their power for humans to assume a lead role.

I think the Xindi arc has shown humans to be best suited in terms of their behavior to lead an organization like the Federation....power alone would not qualify them. Humans are the only species besides Vulcans that act in more than their own self-interest. And unlike the Vulcans, humans will take risks that are not "logical' but are correct, giving them an advantage over the Vulcans.

I don't know how good this is but it has always sort of been stuck in my head since the series started. I realize that the wording is sort of awkward. I'm not sure what to call the episode. Someone once suggested 'There are Reasons'. I was thinking 'Non-Interference'. Any suggestions?

 

I also had the idea of the Enteprise crew attempting to stop a comet from hitting an innocent planet. However, they would be prevented from completing the mission by Daniels who says that this planet must be destroyed in order to restore the timeline. I was thinking the planet might end up being Denoublia since we haven't seen or heard of it in later series. This would also be huge development for Phlox since he would be one of the last of his people. Probably not a likely plot though. That one could be called "Sacrafices" or something.

These are good ideas. In particular the one about Denobula would be especially compelling in light of the fact that it was Phlox who convinved Archer not to interfere with the evolution on a world where they could have saved the lead species. It would be interesting to see Phlox's struggle now that "non-interference" threatens the survival of his own world. One comment is that the Denobulans would have been able to evacuate some of their people since they have warp capability, so there would be a remnant, more than just Phlox and a handful of others.

The other idea was also excellent, because the Vulcans are not bad guys. It fits in well with the episode where Archer met the Vulcans without logic, who could become extremely violent when out of control, and so at the end he confessed to T'pol that he understood better their need for logic and control of emotions. Your episode would be another example of Archer growing out of his suspicion of Vulcans, into understanding them, and realizing they are allies.

But didn't Degra assign the building of the Xindi weapon to the aquatics, because of their deliberative nature? So they must have the physical capacity to build. ( I love the aquatics, because they are slow and deliberative, like me! They have to get on the others' nerves because they think about the same thing over and over and over, and finally reach a decision. That's me!)

I guess I do not have as hard a time believing in the possibilities presented in the Star Trek world once I decide to enter in. The hardest thing for me to find believeable if I sat and thought about it is warp travel, a sense of "now", and humans (who are johnny-come-lately's in the world of species involved in warp travel) leading the Federation.

I used to love to sit out at night and look at the stars. One of the most profound aspects of a night sky for me was the fact that I was looking at diffferent stars from different times at the same time. Light from star A left 4.3 years ago, light from star x, 132 years ago. So in star trek, since they travel faster than light speed, they have to make star charts reflecting where each star actually is "now". They kind of skip over that thought. Any comment about how wrong the stars "look".....do they mean visually look, or look on accurate star charts?

Well, getting back to the main topic, if Degra gave the aquatics the the task of building the waepon, they had the skill, and maybe the best skill. When they were first going into space, their ships had to pass through two mediums; water, then atmospere.

Is it really any stranger that they would have ships filled with water than that humans have to have ships filled with air?

Second post to seperate thoughts clearly.

 

I'm speaking from a story telling aspect, not from the show's perspective, incase anyone was wonderring.  I miss the good ole days when people were happy with good science-fiction.  Now it has to be war, politics, or exciting, edge-of-your-seat suspence.

For me, CJLP, this season has finally given me the ability to believe that humans, and not any these other species, should lead the Federation, by key things that Archer has done, things that I think are the characteristics that eventually dominate the Federation, but are currently demosnstrated only by the humans with regularity.

Namely, in spite of Archer's supposed single-minded focus on his desire and duty to save earth, he has also expended decided effort on the behalf of other species. The two strong examples of this are 1) destroying the Xindi prototype of the weapon to keep the Andorians from having a terrible weapon with which to threaten the Vulcans ( to the astonishment of the Andorians); and 2) sending the Enterprise to finish off the spheres while just a team goes to continue to try to stop the weapon (why? because the Xindi are facing the same magnitude of destruction as the humans.)

Contrast the Xindi and the humans: the Xindi acted completely in terms of self-preservation, which is why the weapon exists.

Contrast the humans and the Vulcans: Vulcan logic would not allow them to risk going into the expanse to aid the humans ( but the humans now have a complete solution to the Vulcan's problems in the Expanse). Logic would not permit the Vulcans to risk themselves for the humans. Vulcans only help when it is logical.

Contrast the humans and the Andorians: The Andorians are driven by their suspicions of the Vulcans, and self-interest, and sought the weapon for themselves.

Even in acting in self-interest and self-preservation, the humans have considered a bigger picture, and the value of others besides themselves. Yes, they have also done a couple of morally wrong things, but even those situations were moderated by better values. For instance Archer left food and supplies for the race he stole the warp engine part from.

What has been the impact of the humans?

The Xindi, who had been manipulated by the sphere-builders, discover this by courageously considering Archer's evidence--questioning closely held beliefs of long standing.

The Andorians sent copies of the prototypes schematics secretly to Archer before parting---sharing.

It remains to be seen what the Vulcans do, but as Trip said, " I would love to see Sovall's face..." when the humans accomplish their mission.

Why should the humans lead or be a leader in the Federation? It all came out in this arc. The Trek saga needed all these pieces. It was at times tedious. But it is GREAT science fiction!

And, in spite of the Enterprise bashers, this season has laid the foundations for humans being a lead race in the Federation...broader vision, self-sacrifce, courage, compassion, resourcefulness, tenacity. And time and experience will teach humans everything else they need to know.

Buttons, hems, and other ripped seams. I also had to take that junior high school home ec class where you had to lean to sew, and it was disasterous.

Congratulations, LTJGJP!

Ranch, but I also really like vinagrettes and Italian. I will eat French or Catalina also.

No blue cheese, please!

None of the above, although in high school I was more artistic than "scientific." I played clarinet

( poorly) in high school...I gave it to my musician brother and haven't played since. I used to do water color paintings with scifi themes....I did a mural of the space proagram that I used as the backdrop of a report I gave. I used to do pencil drawings. I used to write poetry...one of my poems was published in a collection of student work when I was a senior in high school. I don't know why I seem to have quelched my artistic side, but it has been inactive for many many years. Participating at stf.net has caused me to want to write again...if I find the time I will take some kind of creative writing course...to get the old juices flowing.

I crochet afghans, but nothing of my own creation....I use patterns you buy. I haven't been working on any since I moved however. Actually I haven't done one since my father passed. The last one I did was a present for my father the last Christmas he was with us.

In high school the time went by very quickly; homework was easy for me. In college, it depends on the subject... and the prof. (as a soon-to-be college sophomore, I have a bone to pick with you, mjham :P ).

 

Let's just say that with my schedule some days of around 5 hours of classes, if each instructor expected that much study time, only 9 hours would be left solely for eating and sleeping. :lol:

I don't see a problem here. There is the weekend to recover...... :P

Seriously, the reason I do this is because my freshmen think they are going to learn calculus not studying for three weeks, and cramming the night before the test. It does not work. Plus these courses are prerequisite, and if they do not actually study, they do not retain the knowledge for subsequent course.

As you might suspect, a lot of students avoid my classes. ( But the ones who actually study as I insist learn math .)

But the movie preview said the little girl was killed. I just would not want to see that. With all that is going on the world right now, I would need a rescue.

But then, I love Denzel......

Yea I'll watch it but I'll be waiting for its DVD release in oh about six months give or take.

I will also wait for video or DVD. I plan to see it....I do not get the History Channel or USA, so it looks like it could be a good film to me. I just do not plan to go to the theater.

Major Carter because she is competant and reliable. She is good at her job.

Whenever we look back at old episodes of TOS, there is more evidence of how well it was done. In looking at the Talosians, there is no feature as striking as their huge heads with thick veins. Their clothes are plain and mask any other features they might have had. They had put all their eggs in one basket ( developing their minds) and there was nothing else to them. They did not apply any "creativity" to their underground environment...it was as bare as the surface above---no interior decorators among the Talosians! The looked alike...they were no evidence of individuality. It was a listless society of intellects. No wonder they were so fascinated by a vibrant, intelligent man like Christopher Pike! The lively, diverse, creative, independent, adventurous humans were a stark contrast to the Talosians.

Constitution class - the original Enterprise, and its most immediate descendents.

I like his looks. He commands respect, and it is an attractive look.

Well, I have always appreciated praying mantis's but those things in that first photo actually looked bigger than a hand......

How awful! What terrible bugs! How do you bear it all...war and death and weird giant spiders!? Do those things get into people's knapsacks and tents? How do you keep your head in all this? I would be going crazy.

For some young people that would have been too much trauma. I don't think you have to be shown brutally graphic material to learn to be sensitive to the hurts of others.

In fact violent video games have have had the opposite affect....it is teaching those who use them to be insensitive.

You have to place these things in a moral context, making sure the people who will see it have some internalized values as to right and wrong, before seeing such a horrible murder will have an impact.

I have not seen it at all. I have only heard about it. Yet my heart aches over it. Why? Because I was raised to care about other human beings.

Yet I have heard of people being fired because they played the video and laughed through it.

It would be neat seeing the Andorians and Vulcans both helping the humans, fighting on the same side.

It was a good movie. I thought that Disney made the film, but I am not sure. It was also a christian allegory. "Programs" represented by people were pressured by the master control program to deny the existence of "users." Jeff Bridges was a user transported from the real world into the computer world, and so had more "power" than the ordinary program. The story is interesting, and the action and activity keeps one focused. I liked it.