Captain Bolivar

Captain Picard, just because the Enterrpise 1701, had 1701 for a number, doesn't mean that it was the 1701st Starfleet ship.

For example, lets just say that the 861st ship had a few spin-offs:

the U.S.S. Somename - A

the U.S.S. Somename - B

the U.S.S. Somename - C

And

the U.S.S. Somename - D

That would mean for just one number there could be a total of 5 ships! You cannot measure how many ships were built in a time frame by a comparison of registy numbers.

A Googolplex is the biggest number I know.

A googolplex is a 1 followed by a googol of zeros

A googol is a 1 followed by 100 zeros.

This is a googol!

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,0

00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

This is how many zeros follow a 1 in a googolplex. My hard drive couldn't even hold that many zero's!

WHAT A HUGE NUMBER!

Anyone know of anything bigger?

It's not about Paramount being worried, it's about breaking the law. :lol:

Captain, I respect your opinion, but I am not sure if I agree with it or not. I don't think that we should base our actions strictly upon the law. Sometimes the law can be wrong.

A philosopher named Korlberg identified six stages of moral development.

Stage 1: Obedience and punishment orientation. said that the individual is motivated by avoidance of punishments. For example, the individual does not commit a crime so that he does not go to jail. The criticism with this stage, which is the lowest, is that an act might be deemed wrong because it is punishable or because an authority figure says it is wrong.

Looking at the problem of fan films, we know that it is punishable, but just because it is against the law doesn't mean it is wrong.

There are 3 general stakeholders in this scenario: Paramount, the makers of the fan films, and the audiences.

Since is it unlikely that Paramount will lose any kind of sizeable revenue based on the assumption that anyone who watches such fan fiction would be so into Star Trek that they would not pass up the real thing. Paramount as a stakeholder thus has nothing to lose (according to the assumption). The makers of the fan films gain something by creating these fan films which is a creative outlet. The audience also gains entertainment.

So in a sense it would be wrong for the law to prevent these films from being made as they are not hurting anyone, and produce good results, not negative ones.

However, the law still exists. It is for the film makers to decide if they should break the law and risk the consequences. Since they do risk such consequences (for a good cause) it is not likely that they are not in Stage 1 of moral development. It is quite possible that they actually belong to Stage 6: Conscience or Principle Orientation.

(Commander Bolivar @ Oct 27 2003, 04:00 PM)

Xeroc... I checked out your first link "Subspace Theory". 

 

Trekzone... I checked out your first link "Subspace Theory". I didn't...

 

Notice in the 2 quotes above of what I said start are different. One starts off with "Xeroc" and the other starts off with "Trekzone". They should both say "Trekzone". Anywho, in response to your previous post Trekzone, you are in a different time zone than me, so I could post something at 4 when it isn't yet 4 where you are. And yeah, we probably should avoid the topic of subspace and temporal mechanics, but I don't wanna! :lol: I wonder if the Star Trek Encyclopedia actually defines subspace? Anyone know?

Wait, no, it doesn't state that subspace is a field. It just says a "subspace field". Just like an electromagnet creates an electromagnetic field. Does this mean the elcromagnet itself is just a field? No. The electromgnet itself is an object I can hold in my hand - it just generates the field. And who says normal space couldn't have some sort of field. Maybe we just can't see it unless we are in subspace? Maybe the quantum field is the normal space field? We really don't know!

Ok, so scientists don't really know what space is. I'll give you that one. But I did not say an electromagnet itself is just a field. I would not agree with that statement. A field is created by the net movement of elections through the electromagnet.

Futhermore, I did not say subspace was a field. I simply admitted the fact that in Star Trek, it can GENERATE a field; not that is was a field. My argument was that since normal space does not generate a field (even in Star Trek), and that since subspace does, they must be completely different phenomena, because they have different characteristics altogether. Follow the logic? I will admit this is not factual evidence but is logic derived from the lack of relationships between the two. To prove my theory (and it is just that) I would need to discount all other possibilities, which I could not do.

And you were right, just because the author went off on a ideas that don't exist in Star Trek, that doesn't mean we should critisize his/her creativity or imagination. I applaud imagination. My point was that we should not consider such information when seeking the answer for was subspace is, because we are concerned with what it is in regards to Star Trek, are we not?

Oh, I just noticed that I did say that subspace was a field in itself. That was an error on my part; both not noticing I said it, and saying it in the first place.

Sure, another TNG movie would be cool, so would a DS9 or VOY movie. But it would be cool, and not a worthy choice. The characters have been tied off.

Janeway is an admiral with a desk.

B'elanna, Seven and Chakotay aren't Starfleet.

Neelix is on some asteroid.

Kes is gone.

Riker has his own command.

Beverly is at Starfleet Medical HQ.

Data is dead.

Worf has been around via excuses for too long.

Sisko is one with the Profits.

Odo is in the great link.

O'Brien is at Starfleet Academy.

Frankly, that is just a short list of the problems facing a new movie with these crews. Voyager and Deep Space Nine had a set of circumstances that made a movie unlikely. TNG was perfect for movies but it reached the end of that.

Enterprise, because it mirrors TNG in the fact that it is a ship exploring space and is not on a mission to get home, has the best chance of becoming the next movie, especially considering that even if Enterprise runs for 7 years, it would be till 3 years after that, that the Federation is founded. The founding of the Federation could make an excellent movie. I'm not going to go into plot details because my thoughts on such a plot are insignificant. So long as it is original in premise and isn't a rip off from another movie or episode such as another Borg movie. It has already been done. Thats not to say it wouldn't be fun and interesting, but it has to be it's own original entry in the movies of Trek. Not a clone.

Trekzone... I checked out your first link "Subspace Theory". I didn't find it to be a very credible source. For starters, for their "theory" they violate the definition of space. It said that "Space is made of quantized (meaning it is not uniform) particles." This would mean that space is matter since matter consists of particles (more accurately particle-waves). But space is NOT made up of particles or matter. It is the absence of matter, also known as a vacuum. Furthermore, the site talks about "Space Tunneling" and "Spatial Resonance" it goes on to say that these ideas are things that are not talking about in the current time period of Star Trek (Nemesis for example). See Spoiler for quotes referring to this. Since the author made these concepts up and changed the idea of what space is, I belive we should not subscribe to their theory of sub-space.

Click for Spoiler:

Space Tunneling is not something talked about in any previous Star Trek scenarios and has to do with some advanced subspace properties not known during current Star Trek time frames. (TNG etc.)

Spatial Resonance is not something talked about in any previous Star Trek scenarios and has to do with some advanced subspace properties not known during current Star Trek time frames. (TNG etc.)

The second site entitled "Subspace Phenomena" does not attempt to explain what subspace is. It merely states that “Subspace is a mysterious and complex region”. It then goes on to talk about different subspace phenomenon. The first is Subspace compression. The “phenomenon is caused when an object is partially encased in a subspace field.” Here is says that subspace is a field. If subspace is a layer of space as the first site “claimed” it to be, then according to this phenomenon, normal space itself could have a field, which is cannot.

Therefore, assuming that subspace can generate a field, I draw the conclusion that subspace is a phenomenon with completely different characteristics from normal space. I think this is a fair assumption in the trek universe because subspace fields are necessary for the use of warp drive, as we all know. Reading more of the second site brought me to the conclusion that the site remains within the known facts of subspace as given by Star Trek; and that the other site does not.

The statement that “Subspace is a mysterious and complex region” is very correct. Some of the subspace phenomena seen in Star Trek are likely made up which would not allow the writers to come up with a concrete definition of subspace as it would likely contradict much of what subspace has done over the years in Star Trek.

Oh thanks for clearing that up! I'd guess that the bellerephon's number is 74705 because it would have been built only a few years after Voyager. The numbers suggest that between Voyager's constuction and the Bellerephon's construction, a total of 49 other ships would have been built. However, this figure would not include any ships with letter suffixes such as the Enterprise - E. So I guess that episode was near season 7 of DS9, and Voyager started 2 years after DS9 began... so a rough estimate would say that in 5 years, Starfleet built 50+ ships. Considering how many they have lost in the past few years, they must be running low. Just the battle of Wolf 359 would almost balance out those 50 ships. But I don't know how many letter-suffixed ships they make.

Did anyone catch the registry number on the interepid class ship that Bashir found himself on? It is very hard to read in the few scenes that we see the ship, but I could swear it was the same as the Voyager Reg #. I guess they just resued the model, but with computers they could have at least changed it.

I thought Ambassador class ships were science vessels...

CJLP, you should pick up a copy of Star Trek Starship Spotter... I've noticed your fascination with starships etc.