Theunicornhunter

I usually don't watch either (I don't know why, its a really cool show) but like Bysty, I will make an exception. The only thing is I don't know when its on.  :oops:

It's on Mondays at 10:00 pm in the US EDT. If you get US television why don't we get Canadian television?

VaBeachGuy Posted on May 4 2003, 03:13 AM

if person A bets Person B that Person B will "reach 500+" on the post count then the bet is that the post count will be 500+.

I have to disagree - In your words - your bet was person B "would reach" 500+ posts. The words "person B will reach" imply that Person B's actions were a part of the bet. If you had said simply said I bet tomorrow your post count will be 500+ then you would be right.

Luvin1stdegree - even though you're right - dont' know that you'll win

What - no votes for who looks best in glitter gel?

What?

Have you ever watched Enterprise? They have these scenes in decon where they sometimes rub gel all over each other (of course they failed to explain why those areas covered by underwear don't need gel). I think it is ridiculous. However, Trip does look mighty fine wearing that gel.

I think your concerns are justified. The same sex issue has gone way beyond individual privacy.  It has become an issue of in-your-face public behavior and active endorsement in public schools.  This is interfering with the parents' rights to teach morality to their children.

When it comes to in-your-face public behaviour I believe heterosexuals are far worse than anything the gay community does. There are some gay pride parades that feature some people in outlandish costumes. Compare that to spring break and Mardi Gras and it's pretty tame. There are times when you can't go anywhere without seeing a male/female couple making out (I'm talking touchy-feely-kissy stuff - not actual sex).

 

I think more needs to be done in schools to teach tolerance of others. I'm not talking about a "how to" manuals for any type of sexual behaviour. When was the last time you heard of a person being assaulted or killed for being straight. How many teenagers have killed themselves because they were being bullied because they were either gay or others thought they were gay.

A lot of kids are bullied, or picked on, or called geeks for various reasons. I think all of that is wrong. That's why schools should teach "tolerance" not mandate a specific moral philosophy.

IMO - Tolerance would be teaching children that you don't have the right to abuse or harm, physically or mentally another human being whether you agree with them or not. Rather than teaching children it is wrong to harm people whatever you think of them, many US schools have taken the approach of mandating approval of homosexual activity. Not only is this a direct violation of our First Amendment it also fails to protect children that are different for other reasons - such as being poor, fat, homely, disabled, a computer geek or the wrong religion among many others.

As for suicide statistics. Statistics can only show that these teenagers commited suicide. . To assume it was because they were bullied is an inference - it is quite possible there were other factors that led to their decision. And until health officials are free to research those factors these kids aren't going to get the right kind of help. In fact suicide rates are rising for all teens

As for public displays - I can choose not to go to the beach during spring break or go to Mardi Gras; but parents should feel free to attend a basketball game or other public function without having to go home and explain sex (gay or hetero) to an eight year old. (which was an incident that happened in the US)

I've been hated by people. I agree it is a terrible feeling. The goal should be to stop that treatment of all people not just selected groups. I also maintain that parents have the right to teach their children that homosexual behavior is wrong if that is what their faith teaches. This is not the same as condoning violence.

I think it is only logical that the male on Enterprise should be a bit frustrated on such a long journey..

and the females on Enterprise? lol

I have to agree that I too am mad at Archer.  He laid into Trip about how Trip was privy to all his agonizing decisions yet  I think we've discussed before that they've barely shared screen time this season.  Archer is so all over T'Pol that he's forgotten he has a crew.  Then there is the all-over-the-place example Archer has set; and then he's mad at Trip for not reading his mind.  It reminded me of a parent discipling a kid who has no clue what they did wrong.

On this I disagree, simply because Trip knew exactly what he did wrong, and Archer was right in every word. I am not saying that Archer hasn't done many stupid things much similar (strange they didn't have the same consequences though).

 

One of the most interesting things in the series is watching Archer grow into a real captain..

I'll still have to disagree - Trip's words to the Captain were "I did what you would have done"...so I don't think he really understood. That's why it was so pathetic to me.

I agree that this episode is probably laying the groundwork for the Prime Directive. A codified procedure like the prime directive is important. When it is spelled out you know what your parameters are. I also hope that Archer uses this incident to help build his officer rather than cut him off. Beyond that I have no rational argument but I watched this again was even more ticked with Archer.

I watched for a while but got bored - oh and they moved it to 11:30 on Sunday - that was clever. They had some great subtle humor in this show.

I also really liked the episode about the Belleraphon(sp?). There was real science in this show - the difference between light speed and worm holes.

Click for Spoiler:

As for the change in plot line, I just hope they do not keep Enterprise as a war type vessel.  I have always liked that exploration was the primary goal, not war.

Gotto agree with you there - that's why I lost interest in DS9

SciFi of course is my favorite. But I love actual science programs as well. You have to pick and choose but there are some great shows on Discovery/Learning/History - we live in such a fascinating world

The scenes deleted from Spiderman actually showed the WTC towers. I think they were right in removing those - peoples' feelings were too sensitive at the time. If movies are getting shorter its for economic reasons. Special Effects are incredibly expensive and they seem to have forgotten how to make movies without special effects. The digital age has also made us more time conscious. Try watching a movie from the 70's sometime. They can spend five minutes just filming a person walking across the room - I fast forward I can't stand it.

Common sense says I can't afford it - seeing as how I just lost my job. The airfare from Florida to Las Vegas - OMG. Ah, but the seed has been planted. Keep us apprised of the details.

While I fully agree that it's not ethical nor moral.  I do have to ask this: Who are we to control others?  If a man wants to live a lifestyle that we know will lead him to chaos, we can try to help, but in the end, he will choose what he will choose.

 

Like I said, I won't condone same sex marriages nor help it be legal, but I won't try to stop it either, as I see it as a means to control the fellow man.  Who are we to stop the stupid from wanting to be stupid?  I know that doesn't quite make sense, but I thought it might apply.

I agree with that for the most part. And really even if we passed a law and it said same-sex marriages are illegal . . .they would / could still live together and all of that. And if they want to live togerther and all of that, thats fine with me, but I do have concerns making official marriages between those kinds of couples.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

(I'm discussing American legal system because its the one I know)

CJLP - you raise the concern that prohibiting same-sex marriages is an attempt to control others. Every law we have is an attempt to do that - from major crimes to minor regulations. The government's authority lies in its obligation to provide for public welfare. This requires maintaining a balance between individual freedoms and securing the general welfare.

All of the laws regarding family and marriage such as the anti-sodomy law before the Supreme Court and anti-polygamy laws have been written to protect the public good. They were written at a time when moral behavior was seen as promoting the best interest of society. However, that is no longer the prevailing theory in America.

One question to answer is whether moral or spiritual harm to an individual or society can be recognized as "harm" for legal purposes. The Supreme Court will be taking that up soon.

master_q -

I think your concerns are justified. The same sex issue has gone way beyond individual privacy. It has become an issue of in-your-face public behavior and active endorsement in public schools. This is interfering with the parents' rights to teach morality to their children. Further, there have been instances of a witch-hunt persecution of religious people for opposing homosexual activity. That seems hypocritical to me because true tolerance allows for differences of opinion. It's also frightening because taking away religious freedom is a giant leap towards tyranny.

You've all made some interesting comments. Lincoln (quoting the Bible) said a house divided can not stand. I think we are as a nation in danger of being torn apart by separatist (as in divisive) issues. I think our government operates so poorly for that very reason - nobody is working for the good of the whole.

I fear being killed every day too - not by a terrorist but by a driver. Thousands of people are killed on our highways every year - due in large part to road rage, or stupid behavior. When's the last time you heard public outrage over this? The point is that we may go to war to keep terrorists from killing us but just shrug it off when we kill ourselves at a higher rate.

Captain Jean-Luc Picard Posted on May 2 2003, 11:26 PM

I also believe that with the way our youth is being treated, educated, and so forth... there may not even be an America in 300 years. Further more, this planet has more problems than we can deal with.

I couldn't agree more. I have been working to get my teaching cerficate but I have misgivings about going into the field because of the climate in public schools today. I get so mad because every time we turn around there is a new program for this or that but the programs are designed to bolster the politically correct image of the politician not actually solve a problem.

Here is an example of absolute stupidity. The Florida voters (yes I know they have a bad rap to begin with) voted for a class size amendment to the state constitution which means all schools have to reduce class size. In order to do this schools will have to eliminate support personnel (paraprofessionals in classroom among others) this may actually cause a reduction in education quality in some schools. There is absolutely no evidence that class size reduction will improve education. As evidence of how poor the education of Floridians is - the voters went and approved the amendment.

Somebody proposed the amendment for goodness knows what personal agenda. And voters (not just in Florida) want quick, easy fixes to their problems so they buy whatever bill of goods a politician offers them.

The point is there are real problems with the care and education of children. I could go and go on this topic; the point is the problems will not go away until the roots of these issues are addressed. Unfortunately, there aren't quick, easy fixes. No one wants to take responsibility for saying the hard things that need to be said - somebody might be offended and politicians would rather get re-elected.

Ahane, if Americans could unite to combat our social ills we would be a power no one could touch because there are good people here. I guess I'm afraid we are too fragmented for that sort of unity and I am afraid we may be lost.

If you haven't seen this - I think it's pretty funny too

Sev Trek

I was the other cold pizza - even better with Mtn Dew. I need to eat breakfast - and I need to eat protein. Cold pizza, left over Chinese food, a tuna sandwich - I'm not picky. I don't like traditional breakfast food for breakfast. Cheese grits, scrambled eggs and maple sausage make a great dinner.

I've seen the dish - I liked it. Considering I live about dead center of nowhere it's amazing our Blockbuster has anything. I'll look for the others

I agree the words to the opening song fits the theme but I liked what is called the "alternate intro" better. It "said" the same thing without the words and I thought said it better.

I was walking through Publix one night and heard the current theme song on the speakers - I kept thinking where have I heard that song before.

  I don't want to hate either Archer or Trip for their actions, but I need to see some more regret and acknowledgement from Archer.  I keenly felt Trip's regret, but not so much Jon's.    I shouldn't be ticked at Archer for doing his job, so why was I?  I believe that these past actions of Archer's must be further explored to resolve this situation. I also believe that if Berman and Braga drop the ball on this conflict and don't sustain this tension between the characters they are bailing on a story with the potential for huge emotional impact. The issues of interference/non-interference can be explored through their conflict.  Plus, Trip and Archer's friendship is of a depth similar to Kirk and Spock.  Watching it fracture, nearly perish, and then heal itself is the stuff great storytelling is made of. 

 

Consider it, B&B.  Please. 

First I need to clarify - I didnt' say I thought Archer was talking to himself; I said he could have been - as in he was reaming down on Trip using words that applied exactly to him. I wonder if B&B did this on purpose - hoping we'd get the sense of irony.

I have to agree that I too am mad at Archer. He laid into Trip about how Trip was privy to all his agonizing decisions yet I think we've discussed before that they've barely shared screen time this season. Archer is so all over T'Pol that he's forgotten he has a crew. Then there is the all-over-the-place example Archer has set; and then he's mad at Trip for not reading his mind. It reminded me of a parent discipling a kid who has no clue what they did wrong.

I agree they need to follow up on this issue and Archer needs to acknowledge he has set a bad example; I think someone else has said Archer was more concerned about having fun with the aliens than the rights of the congenitor. I get that feeling as well.

bysty Posted on May 2 2003, 10:47 PM

"her"? lol. jk. now when i talk about 'her' ill use quotations because i dont know what to classify 'her' as.

I have a hard time calling a person an it - plus I think a female actor played the part and made the mental association - my mistake

Click for Spoiler:

I think that Captain Archer was morally wrong to send the Cogenitor back. Like Captain Vere in "Billy Budd," Captain Archer must make a choice between what his conscience tells him and what his mind tells him. I believe he did wrong because I have a firm faith in a universal law.

Captain Archer apparently wavers on this faith, because he has acted both ways in the past. He acted against his conscience in "Dear Doctor" (another similarly thought provoking episode) but Archer let his conscience run free in "Detained." (among other eps) So, either the writers haven't decided on his moral stance, or they are deliberately trying to muddle it. I give the episode a 9 out of 10 because I perceive that the episode was VERY well made, it brought up an important issue, and, even though I was disgusted by their depressing moral conclusion, the issue was dramatically dealt with.

 

On a sidenote, I notice that the sideplot of Malcolm was abandoned. I wonder why?

An interesting perspective.

Click for Spoiler:

The more I think about this the more angry I get with Archer - he was coming down on Trip for doing the exact same thing he has done.

PS I think they left it to us to understand Reed would be having breakfast with the Vissian

What - no votes for who looks best in glitter gel?

Remember in ST2 McCoy asks Kirk if Saavik had changed her hairstyle, Kirk replies he hadn’t noticed. Now, that same scenario on ENT only about T”Pol changing her outfit.

I Wonder if anyone (on the ship) would notice?

Reed would...

TheUnicornHunter, last I heard, the total homosexual population was somewhere around 1-2%!  (Just do a search for something like "census homosexual")  That is not a signifigant amount of the population to require polygamy to become neccessary.

I did look at statistics and you're right. But even if they don't need to - what if they want to? Several years ago I got on the conversation of polygamy with some of my roommates. One rm's grandmother was there. Grandma was twice divorced. As we discussed the issue - most of us repulsed by it, Grandma chimed in..."she'd rather share a good man with thirteen women than have an S*B all to herself." We kind of sat there in stunned silence not knowing what to say but for some reason I have never forgotten that. I guess with all the debate going on in the public arena I can't see the moral or legal principal for allowing one alternative family structure but not the other.

never seen battlefield earth though

you're lucky....lol

Hooray for the PJ/tshirt homewear

What does Pinned mean on topics - I see the little tack pin - why do some topics become pinned