gul_nodrog

I just saw the movie today and I absolutely loved it. I loved how they were throwing bones to us poor Deep Space Nine whipping boys by including Section 31 in the story! Hey, and wasn't Martok from someplace called "Ketha Lowlands?" Was that also a reference to DS9? Maybe I'm crazy. But anytime that someone shows they actually know about the stuff that was on my favorite Trek series, I'm all in. Woot!

I loved how they gave just about every cast member some great screen time and made them integral to the plot. I thought new Kahn was way cool. In fact, I think all the new characters are better than their original counterparts! GASP! Oh, the sacrilege! LOL!

I don't care if Abrams goes back and reworks every major episode ... he can do whatever he wants with my blessing. I cannot wait to see what he does to FIX Star Wars, another great franchise that only gets truly GREAT when its original creator gets out of the way IMHO.

I wanted to hate this movie so bad, I really did. BUT I think it may well be my favorite because of this Spock/Uhura thing, because Spock and Kirk are at loggerheads, because Kirk kept getting his butt kicked by everybody but kept coming back for more. I think Urban is fabulous as the new Bones, Pine is a very sexy Kirk, Saldana is a very hot addition to the bridge, Pegg's Scotty is hilarious, and Quinto is Spock with an edge. Nimoy never came across quite this sexy IMO ... I really was surprised at how attractive I found Zach Quinto/Spock. I can see what Uhura sees in him.

Is she still his student? Starfleet IS college and I know a lot of professor/student relationships come about, so that doesn't bother me at all. Plus, 200 years from now, who knows what will and won't be "taboo."

These are not the same characters. This is really an entirely new group of people with characters built over a completely different set of lifetimes. I was worried about how they were going to reboot this franchise, but they set this up in such a way that it doesn't change anything in the Trek series' and movies that we watched for decades. It's just new and really not even connected to the old because of that pivotal moment in time with the USS Kelvin. I can accept that.

I can't believe I am saying this, because I was so worked up about the "erasure" of TNG/DS9/VOY, but I can now wrap my mind around the fact that this new movie route is something completely separate to be enjoyed in and of itself. Thank goodness, because a life without Trek is like a life without sunshine! LOL!

Well, I totally LOATHED her, so, yes, I would say she did an excellent job in the mirror universe eps!

I'll bet Shatner didn't even know who Wang was ...

Trek is just so huge, with so many different actors from all the series. There's no excuse, ever, for rudeness, though.

Having recently rewatched Voyager, I can honestly say that it was really good show with a great cast. I think both DS9 and Voyager suffered due to Trek's overexposure in the 1990's. TNG, DS9 and VOY should have been spaced out a little more and run consecutively, not concurrently. I think the franchise suffered because of it, but there it is. Voyager does get treated like a stepchild, and THAT is unfortunate. Hollywood just has no respect for its history, but you'd think Trek would be better than that!

Maybe if Janeway had ever actually promoted Harry beyond ensign, Shatner/Kirk would have known who he was! Let's blame it on Janeway!

I'm with Garrett, I'd kill or die for a new Star Trek television series, but only if it continues on with the next gen timeline.

One of my favorite episodes ... the interaction between Garak and Gul Dukat is priceless. Both those actors are just so good, Trek was lucky to have them. There's one thing that is brought up during this episode that I would LOVE to have seen explored later ... it's when Garak brings up a trial he was involved in concerning Gul Dukat's father. That could have been developed into a great episode about these two characters.

Deep Space Nine is my favorite series, but there are episodes that I skip ... anything with Miles in peril and off on his own is a "skipper" for me. So I give this one a 2. I love Colm Meaney and Miles is a great character, but I typically prefer it when the entire ensemble is "together" or at least two or three of them involved in the main story. I feel the same way about most "Jadzia in love" episodes pre-Worf relationship.

Garak's ending was appropriate for his character. No happy ending there, but certainly a resolution to his exile. There's a price to pay for being a member of the oppressor race, regardless of whether or not you were part of the oppressing.

 

Uh... Hello? Reverse racism anyone?

I'm not sure what you're talking about, but surely you can see that every German who was alive during the Holocaust, and really, every German alive today, still suffers to a degree as a result of what the Nazis did, whether they had anything personally to do with it or not. Since the whole Cardassian/Bajoran thing was a model of that, I think Garak's experience at the end is quite accurate.

We recently rewatched the entire Voyager series. I had not watched this show since it was on the air. There were many episodes that I had never seen and it was really great to have some "new" Trek to watch!

As far as Kes, I didn't like the character much at all the first time around, but rewatching the show gave me an entirely different opinion of her. I guess that 10 years will change your perspective. I think the writers were hamstrung by the Kes character's childlike depiction and short lifespan early on. It was an interesting idea to make her a being that was only going to live nine years or so, but it also forced them to write her almost like a child.

Jennifer had a great figure and could have pulled off a much more sexy look than she was ever allowed to have as Kes. She had a great throaty voice, also wasted. Plus, they paired her up with Neelix, ick, and that was just plain weird. She was locked in a relationship before we ever got to know her. They wrote themselves into a corner.

I was sad to see her go this time around and wish they'd had more writing talent to have kept her and "fixed" her character. When they brought her back as an old woman in that one episode (Fury?), I HATED seeing Jennifer Lien trying to play past Kes. It was ridiculous that no one noticed the doubling of her waistline ... completely unbelievable. If I were Jennifer, I would never have consented to return to the role until I'd had the opportunity to drop about 25 to 30 pounds!

Replacing her with Jeri Ryan and going in a more blatant sexual direction changed the tone of the show. A noticeable shift in focus. It became the Doctor and Seven show, with those two and their angst occupying a great deal of the focus. Janeway still dominated, but mainly as a foil for the other two. And they shoved Chakotay completely into the background. Then the writers in all their wonderful wisdom decide that Chakotay and Seven are going to hook up ... preposterous! I HATED the way they did that. Janeway and Chakotay danced around each other for the first three seasons of that show. They made much more sense as a couple. But, hey, they did the same thing to Picard and Crusher, so I don't know why I expected anything better!

So Voyager limped across the finish line with some very odd choices (don't even get me started on the insertion of Lt. Barclay and Counselor Troi!) I think that Jennifer Lien would have been a great asset to the show for its entire run. After they broke up her and Neelix, I actually liked Neelix. And I liked her, too, until they let her hair grow long and she started looking very "un"Keslike. Oh, well, at least Voyager occupied that twerp Brannon Braga and kept him away from my beloved DS9.

Incredibly sad for many reasons, mainly that the show was over!

But, seriously, I do wish there had been a more satisfactory ending for Kira/Odo. After everything Odo went through, the things he saw in his people vs. humanity, I wish he had decided to remain with humans, maybe even requested the link turn him into a human for good. Just my opinion.

Sisko heading off to the celestial temple was disappointing, but really, where else could the character have gone? Any other destination would have felt anti-climactic. I wish they hadn't left Kasidy with child. I wish Kasidy and Jake had been given the option of being taken up with the Prophets as well. As the Emissary, surely Sisko could have wrangled that deal!

Garak's ending was appropriate for his character. No happy ending there, but certainly a resolution to his exile. There's a price to pay for being a member of the oppressor race, regardless of whether or not you were part of the oppressing.

I loved Worf's ending on DS9 ... it really makes me furious what they did with his character in Nemesis. What a travesty.

I hated the way they broke up Julian and Miles, but romance trumps bromance every time, I guess. Keiko was always a HUGE pain in the butt.

I haven't been out on these boards for a VERY LONG time. Life does tend to get in the way of this sort of fun stuff!

And then I think the 12 cylon models were created based on the 12 lords of kobol.

 

Gods #1-10 have been named according to battlestar wiki:

 

1. Zeus – Leader/eldest of the Gods

• Colonel Tigh

2. Hera – Wife of Zeus

• Ellen Tigh

3. Aphrodite – Goddess of Love

• Number Six

4. Ares – God of War

• Number One / Cavil

5. Apollo – God of hunt/sport

• Anders

6. Artemis – Goddess of hunt/sport

• Number three

7. Asclepius – God of Science/Healing

• Number four/black doctor

8. Athena – Goddess protector of man who killed herself after the 12 tribe’s exodus

• Number eight / Athena Agathon

9. Aurora – Goddess of the dawn

• Tory Foster

10. Poseidon – God of the sea

• Number 2/Leoben ???

11. God #11 (Vulcan/Hephaestus) ???

• Tyrol ???

12. God #12 (Hades) - ???

• Number 5/Doral???

 

But lastly I was thinking that perhaps Starbuck is also a cylon as the only possible explanation is that she redownloaded... If this is true, than perhaps she is the reincarnation of the 13th lord of kobol that was the one who started the war... They have said that there are 12 lords of kobol (12 colonies as well) but isnt it possible that there was in fact a 13th lord who left the pantheon and is, therefore, the god of the 13th-cylon tribe?

I like your gods list.

I wish we knew the names of those other cylons other than "black doctor," "Kevin Spacey cylon"... so annoying for them not to have names, unless their names were given and I just missed them (highly possible).

Here's my WISH list for how it all turns out:

1. The fleet finds some planet they can live with/on.

2. Cavil bites it, along with his little stooge cylons including BOOMER.

3. Tyrol finds a good Boomer to settle down with.

4. Helo adminsters a final one-two punch to Adama and takes the old man out permanently.

5. Lee puts his uniform back on and loses that awful pinstripe suit.

6. Someone opens fire and kills the quorum again.

7. Roslyn dies already.

8. Cottle gives up smoking, particularly in the O.R.

9. Anders dies and goes away.

10. Starbuck and Apollo end up together.

11. Someone separates Tory's head from her body ... although she did us all a solid and got rid of that PWT Callie. I still don't like her.

12. Tigh and Ellen inherit the universe.

Just my personal list. Of course, none of these things will happen because they aren't intellectual enough or deep enough. I'm just sort of ready for this show to be done.

I really enjoyed the movie. I saw it in the theaters and I bought it on Blu-Ray. I'd put it ahead of the 2nd Indy movie.

Oh, I'll give you that one, Kor. The second Indiana Jones movie is one of the worst movies ever made, not just a bad Indiana Jones movie.

And like I said, I really liked Indy 4 the first time I saw it. Unlike one and three, though, it is not a multiple-viewer. It doesn't hold up well to scrutiny IMO.

I liked Indy 4 at first because I was so excited to see him back on screen. Then I went to see it again and liked it much less. Then we bought the DVD and watched it again and I realized that it was EMBARRASINGLY BAD. Which is too bad, really, because I like that kid (Shia). The reunion of Marian and Indy was about 20 years too late (should have happened in the third movie if it was going to happen at all).

Harrison Ford looks terrible and it is hard to watch him in this part as really an old man. The plot was hokey and about something most people had never heard of (Crystal Skulls ... I ask you. And before someone chimes in about how they knew all about those before the flick, well, you and about 1 percent of the general population. Mayan-Schmayan, who cares?)

Man, I'm glad I got that off my chest! Sorry to sound so hostile ... I have NO idea where that came from this morning!

Seeing as how the new movie is about Kirk and Spock et al, you guys should just watch the original cast movies.

The new movie has nothing to do with DS9 at all. If it were me, I'd skip the new movie and just let her watch DS9 start to finish.

I've rewatched the series again and I am under the impression that the Prophets stepped in to eliminate the Dominion Fleet AND to prevent any further Dominion forces from coming through the wormhole.

Then Dukat's nutty pah-wraith scheme closed the wormhole at the end of Season 6. Sisko finds the Orb of the Emissary, the wormhole reopens at the beginning of Season 7.

Were the Prophets still preventing Dominion traffic through the wormhole after it reopened? I assumed they were. Then when Odo went back through (being a Founder), Sisko was already in the Celestial Temple and would have said to his brethren, "Yo, dudes, Odo's cool. He can go through." haha.

Funny to see spoiler tags for a show that has been off the air for ten years now! I guess four years ago when this thread was started, somebody out here was watching the show for the first time.

Wish I could see it again for the first time!

We just finished watching DS9 all the way through with our 9 year old son (who just LOVED it btw! Woot! Another Niner!)

Now we are watching TNG with him, and while he is enjoying many of the episodes, it is so obvious that DS9 was the better series right off the bat, even to him. We're in Season 2 right now and Data is really emerging as the talent in the ensemble. He's also finding Worf's character interesting because he got to know him so well on DS9.

Season 1 of TNG is pretty bad, except for a few bright spots. Season 2 is better, Troi is greatly improved, Tasha is gone and I sort of like Dr. Pulaski (when she's not being a turd to Data).

Do you have a copy of the Entertainment Weekly that came out when TNG went off the air and Generations came out? We do, and it ranks all the episodes of TNG (1-178) and the first two and a half season of DS9. Just reading the synopses of the episodes makes it glaringly obvious that DS9 was good in a way that TNG was not during its first two seasons.

Well I'm sure that from my username and avatar everyone can tell where my true allegiance lies but I still liked Damar. He may be my least favourite of the three main Cardassians but being third after Dukat and Garak is still one hell of an accolade as far as I'm concerned.

Well said!

Man, there were some incredible actors on this show. And what great material they were given to work with.

DS9 is the UBERTREK. None of the other shows really compare, not even the original series (which I loved) or TNG (also loved). DS9 was on an entirely different plane.

Damar ... I hated him then I loved him.

Garak ... always loved him, but you could never really tell which side he was on until toward the end.

Dukat ... I hated him, then I liked him, then I loved him, then I despised him.

What talent from the writers of this show.

It's precisely the quality of these characters and DS9 in general that makes me cringe whenever I remember they are working on a prequel to the original series. What a botched job SOMEONE did on this franchise. It was not DS9's lack of quality in any area that caused Trek to lose viewers. It was mismanagement of the entire franchise, oversaturation of the market, and just really dumb follow-up series that resulted in them having to hit the reset button.

DS9 deserved its chance at the big screen, but it was never going to happen because of the morons who were at the helm driving this ship into the ground.

It's depressing.

We just finished watching "Empok Nor" and "In the Cards," DS9 Season 5. We're rewatching the entire series with my 9 year old son, who LOVES it. He's becoming just as obsessed with DS9 as we are.

If anything, I think that it will bring new fans into the fold.

Its failure or its success will bring new fans into the fold? The question was "If Star Trek XI fails....."

If the movie fails, then I think the franchise is done for, at least for the time being.

I don't think that would be such a bad thing. Ten years from now when we're all dying for new Star Trek, we'd go see ANYTHING. Right now, you've got a certain percentage of the fanbase who won't see this new movie for whatever reason: the recast, the rewriting of Trek history, etc. This is not a fanbase ready to fork over their money to see a version Trek they don't want to see. Down the line, we won't be so particular IMO.

We are rewatching DS9 start to finish with our 9 year old son. (You gotta indoctrinate these kids early so they won't go for substandard Trek!)

Anyway, revisiting the Julian and Jadzia potential ... I never was for it because of her and Worf in later seasons. Now that I've rewatched Seasons 1-3 for the 5th time, I think that Bashir and Dax would have a great "couple." There's a chemistry there I never really picked up on before.

Kira and Odo's romance in later seasons seems very odd after rewatching the early years. I always thought it was awkward when she began to return his affections. I understood his fixation on her, but never really believed her feelings for him beyond friendship. They should not have killed off Bareil IMO. Or let that mirror universe Bareil end up with Kira at the end of the series.

Worf's addition to the cast seems sort of "forced" this time around. Those first three seasons were actually quite good and I think things turned in a different direction once he showed up. Then they're having to divide dialogue even further between this huge ensemble cast which had to have been difficult. Does anyone know how the rest of the cast felt about his joining them?

Odd, really, my thoughts this go round. I've always been a staunch Dax/Worf shipper and generally enjoyed Kira and Odo's unlikely pairing.

I see what you are saying. But in the case of Battlestar:Galactica, I would think there would still be a curiousity factor on what the original show was all about. I have to disagree with you on BG. If I watched the new one and went back and watched the old one, I'd realize how much better the original was.......lol....just my opinion there.

It's possible that I feel that way because I have a huge crush on Jamie Bamber (Lee Adama). I'm 42 years old and I just blush like a schoolgirl everytime he comes onscreen! :)

Well, I love the new Battlestar Galactica, probably because I never watched the old one!

 

New people are probably going to like this new Star Trek because they never watched the old series'. They never will go back and watch the original material and as this is a reboot, there will be no need or desire in them to do so.

Actually, if I like a movie based on a TV show that I had never watched before, I would be more inclined to watch the TV show afterwards.

It really depends on how different the movie is from the t.v. show. I think it fair to say that anyone who watched The Wrath of Kahn would undoubtedly have gone back to the source material. Those who are watching the new BSG are looking a reimagined thing, and the old stuff really has no bearing on the new.

Does that make sense?

Well, I love the new Battlestar Galactica, probably because I never watched the old one!

New people are probably going to like this new Star Trek because they never watched the old series'. They never will go back and watch the original material and as this is a reboot, there will be no need or desire in them to do so.

I loved the story arc aspect of DS9, the grittier tone, the better acting (because of better scripts), and all the wonderfully indepth character development for all the ensemble. Even secondary characters were given great treatment by the writers and producers of the show. On TNG, we have Picard/Worf/Data, on TOS, we have Kirk/Spock/McCoy, on DS9 we have Sisko, Kira, Odo, Bashir, Dax, Quark, Garak, Jake, Worf, Martok, etc. etc. Just fabulous television.

Some junior high girl where my husband teaches got arrested at school yesterday for assaulting another student with a bowl of tomato soup! What is going on? Why are people attacking each other with food?