Jim's In Trouble---are You Surprised?

[Jim Phaserman 0]

So yes, friday I get to go to a Non Judicial Punishment proceddings, and not as a witness, but as the defendant. I was called in to work today, which doesn't surprise me, and my boss, a Lieutenant (O-3, same as a Captain in the US Army) was having difficulty doing his job. I asked him for permission to speak freely, and I told him that if he knew how to do his job, I wouldn't be here and neither would the other people there. he told me that I was out of line (which I may have been, but I am right), and that he was writing me up on charges of Insubordination and Disrespecting a superior officer. the Legalman in the office, however, managed to talk him out of the insubordination charge, but the Disrespecting a superior officer charge stands. I shall find out on Friday what the Captain says, after an investigation. I shall keep you all posted as to what is going on.

[Ace 0]

I guess I had the wrong idea of "speaking freely" (I thought you could get away with a bit more). Does it depend some on how you said it?

Good luck with it :lol: . I guess you wont be saying that again anytime soon (j/k).

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I just got off the phone with one of the other officers in my command, who said she wishes she had the guts to do this, so there is a bit of a base of support for me, it seems.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Good luck Jim, one reason I could never join the military - keeping my mouth shut would cause me to explode.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I posted this first in RC's log, requesting a casefull of Nemesis thongs from Nem so I could cover the Lieutenant's car with them (So like me), but I also noted there that I would contest, though maybe not at the proceddings, that he is NOT a superior officer, but a higher ranking one. (I don't care who you are, that's funny)

[Rivendells_king 0]

man jim your bad, this is probally going to be all over the news and stuff like that. well good luck I have already said that to numerous people and employers and thats why I am such a loser.

 

man your bad.

 

j/k good luck with the court matrial thing

 

Nahmira

[Ace 0]

(I don't care who you are, that's funny)

(Not to those starvin' pygmies. )

[Jeanway 0]

Hey Jim, you want Admiral Jeanway to go to bat for ya? I'll do it, I mean it. You want me to bring a couple of my Goons with me? :lol: :lol: No, seriously, good luck with that. Sorry Man.

[Vulcan IDIC 0]

Hang in there Jim. I really hope that it all works out for you. I think that Lt. will be more careful the next time they give permission to somone to speak freely.

[Lady Luthien 0]

Good Luck!

[she_wolf 0]

Good luck Jim, and i hope it all works out well for you * fingers are crossed *

[BlueCrystal 0]

Yikes Jim and good luck, I've been in front of a judge a few times mostly as a plaintive, a witness, and once a defendant on a free speech issue. I won the defendant one. Anyway, maybe you can get these people to take a chill pill and worry about things that are more important like the WAR!

[Odo 0]

If he said you can speak freely he has no case

unless you kept after he said not to

 

GOOD LUCK!!

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I'm not surprised, it was bound to happen.

 

But Jim here's a shocking revelation for you; I once stood at Capt. Mast for calling my division leader a racist. The matter was dropped so I guess I made my point.

 

Good luck to you.

[hangon 3]

Sounds ruff dude :lol: ..all i can say is good luck

[mj 7]

So yes, friday I get to go to a Non Judicial Punishment proceddings, and not as a witness, but as the defendant. I was called in to work today, which doesn't surprise me, and my boss, a Lieutenant (O-3, same as a Captain in the US Army) was having difficulty doing his job. I asked him for permission to speak freely, and I told him that if he knew how to do his job, I wouldn't be here and neither would the other people there. he told me that I was out of line (which I may have been, but I am right), and that he was writing me up on charges of Insubordination and Disrespecting a superior officer. the Legalman in the office, however, managed to talk him out of the insubordination charge, but the Disrespecting a superior officer charge stands. I shall find out on Friday what the Captain says, after an investigation. I shall keep you all posted as to what is going on.

While I think your lieutenant over-reacted to your remarks, that does not change the fact that the remarks were ungracious. He should have just let your put-down roll off his back.

 

If I were to put myself in the other man's shoes, I might have expected that when you asked to speak freely that you were going to give me some unsolicited advice, not tell me that I was not up to par. I suspect he knows he is not up to par.

 

So all you did was rub salt in the wound, and provoke an equally ungracious response.

 

I have seen people respond to such situations with grace, and I have seen people just say what is " the truth" and let the chips fall where they may. Your case was to speak the truth and let the chips fall. The man isn't any better at his job then when you made the observation.

 

My dad was in a situation where someone was put over him who could not do her job....did not have the experience. He could have let her fall, pointing out her inadequate knowledge, and could have done it on a regular basis. But instead he taught her " the ropes, " and warned her of the snares. There were no accolades for responding graciously, and only a handful of people, relatives of the principal players, were "in the know." But the result was a functioning place of work for everybody, and the job getting done. And a lot of lasting mutual respect among the parties involved.

 

For your sake, I hope nothing comes of this charge.

 

I would wish that sometimes you would want to be more helpful, rather than merely right.

[Tina 0]

Well Jim

keep your Chin up because everything is bound to be ok

[athena28 2]

Regardless of which branch of the service you're in Jim, the only point of reference I have is the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

 

As you said your Lieutenant's going forward with a non-judicial punishment proceeding, I guess he's going to try and dock or reduce your pay [grade] (he wouldn't go for the bread & water or the extra duties or confinement would he)?

 

Assuming what you said to him would normally fall within the Subsection 'Disrespect toward superior commissioned officer' (but for the fact you asked for & received? permission to speak freely) how does he believe his charge has merit? Is there some type of line one cannot cross even when given permission to speak freely? Has your counsel informed you of this?

 

Best of Luck.

Edited June 28, 2004 by athena28

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I was rethinking my earlier post - even though I'm not in the military (and still think it would be a little too rigid for me) I still live and work in the real world and I have learned to keep a lot of opinions to myself because it is in my best interest to do so. But I've had a few years to develop that philosophy.

 

BC, your Free Speech case sounds interesting if you'd like to share?

[ussacclaim 0]

Well I guess Jim Croce said it best:

 

You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit in the wind. You don't pull the mask of the ol' lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Jim.

 

Anyway, I don't believe in luck but I wish you justice. As far as I'm concerned it sounds like you are innocent

[Jim Phaserman 0]

While I think your lieutenant over-reacted to your remarks, that does not change the fact that the remarks were ungracious. He should have just let your put-down roll off his back.

 

If I were to put myself in the other man's shoes, I might have expected that when you asked to speak freely that you were going to give me some unsolicited advice, not tell me that I was not up to par. I suspect he knows he is not up to par.

 

So all you did was rub salt in the wound, and provoke an equally ungracious response.

 

I have seen people respond to such situations with grace, and I have seen people just say what is " the truth" and let the chips fall where they may. Your case was to speak the truth and let the chips fall. The man isn't any better at his job then when you made the observation.

 

My dad was in a situation where someone was put over him who could not do her job....did not have the experience. He could have let her fall, pointing out her inadequate knowledge, and could have done it on a regular basis. But instead he taught her " the ropes, " and warned her of the snares. There were no accolades for responding graciously, and only a handful of people, relatives of the principal players, were "in the know." But the result was a functioning place of work for everybody, and the job getting done. And a lot of lasting mutual respect among the parties involved.

 

For your sake, I hope nothing comes of this charge.

 

I would wish that sometimes you would want to be more helpful, rather than merely right.

MJ, I have been as helpful as I can to this officer. he's been in his current post long enough to know what the deal is. I have to show him how to do some things that I consider very basic on an almost daily basis, and he never picks it up. he makes no effort to learn, either. I'll stand before the Captain, let him know why I said it.

[mj 7]

MJ, I have been as helpful as I can to this officer. he's been in his current post long enough to know what the deal is. I have to show him how to do some things that I consider very basic on an almost daily basis, and he never picks it up. he makes no effort to learn, either. I'll stand before the Captain, let him know why I said it.

Well, okay. I am glad to know you gave it a shot in trying to help the guy. I hope everything works out. I do think the guy over-reacted, and that this whole situation is a poor use of Navy time.

[joeybear 0]

sounds to me like 'permission' was granted - also sounds to me like your 'superior' is a little short in the pants...

 

think of it this way - when you're eighty, and contemplating beautiful sunsets from your rocking chair, you will look back and be proud for speaking your mind - too many shunt their truth to the back burner in order to maintain the horse-pucky of hierarchy - to one's own soul, it's NEVER worth it...

 

i have been lambasted for calling a spade a spade, but what would you do? call it a club? yikes...

 

good luck with the hearing, but in my estimation, you've already won - your own self respect - THREE CHEERS!!!

Edited July 1, 2004 by joeybear

[Jim Phaserman 0]

While Lieutenant Junir Grade (Phaserman)'s comment was, to be frank, disrespectful, it was not, however, without truth. we as officers demand that our subordinates show us the proper amount of respect, but that level of respect is a relative thing. It is not outside the scope of reason for a subordinate officer to point out our flaws. and, in this case, the accused was granted permission to speak freely. The Junior officer's actions, while ill-advised, were not wholy disrespectful, and not so much so as to warrant these proceddings. in light of this, I am dismissing all charges. this hearing is adjourned.

[Goose 0]

Stardate:214276.8

 

 

Well Jim good to see that the charges were dismissed.Glad you didnt get in trouble.

[Odie 0]

Sir, I am glad to hear that the charges where dropped. It is good see that there is still common sense left in the Navy. Next time, sir, please be careful on what you say. You may not have an understanding C.O.

Edited July 6, 2004 by Odie

[ILIKESEVEN 0]

congratulation,s Jim

[Admiral Kirk 1]

I'm glad you made it through this. I would not make it a policy of doing that though.

[joeybear 0]

good show, mate...

[Doc Niel 0]

Well you can tell you are truly a mustang!

 

Waht are they going to do, shave your head and send you to sea. Been there done that and you problably got the T-shirt.

 

Thank god for my job. The old says is there is NO frtenization in the Hospital corps!