ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

[Goose 0]

I WANT EVERY MEMBER AND MOD AND PERSON AND STARTREKFANS.NET TO READ THIS AND LISTEN GOOD!!

 

 

 

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!

 

 

This is ridicoluos!! Arguments starting left and right,threads being closed faster than they aregetting started and Kronos having to be closed.I hear people complaining about this and that.NO!! YOU KNOW WHOS FAULT IT IS????

 

 

OURS!!!!

 

What happened to this place huh people.This place used to reprsent the dream that Gene Roddenberry worked for.This place used to reprsent unity and friendship among us all.Now its just a place where people are bickering over stupid stupid crap.Yeah I have done my fair share of it and I am just as big of an idoit as the rest of you.I had better not read a responce saying "oh well I didnt do this yadda yadda yadda" Do you people act like this is real life? Do you get into petty little arguments over stupid stuff that isnt really that big deal and make it like its the end of the world?Man I sure hope not!!

 

You know if Gene saw this place how it is right now he would shake his and walk away.It saddens me it really does.WE NEED TO GET IT TOGETHER PEOPLE!!!! We are all here because of our love for Star Trek.Its a common bond we all share and one that unites us.We all want to see the kind of future that Gene invisioned for humanity, and if we cant all get along what change does the rest of humanity have?

 

ITS TIME TO STOP THIS BS!!! Lets go back to the way things were ok.I beg you people lets stop this foolishness and act civilised.

 

THIS THREAD WILL NOT AND I REPEAT WILL NOT BE USED TO ARGUE IN ANY WAY!!!! I SWEAR IF THIS THREAD GETS LOCKED BECAUSE OF BICKERING SO HELP ME.......

Edited March 11, 2004 by Goose

[Lady Luthien 0]

WOW i was a bit surprised when i read this thread but i do think youre right Goose, i myself have also done my part of argueing and im sorry for that.

[fenriz275 0]

I hear you. I don't know what's going myself. I'm had threads killed with no explaination, posts removed without any complaints, topics I try reply to that are suddenly closed. The rule here seems to be free speech as long as you agree with me. Personally I don't care anymore. I've made my concerns apparent(sic) to the mods, if they choose to do something about it,who knows? If this is the way it's going to be I'll find a new site. IMO there are mods here that should havenever been made mods. I have more that goes with this rant but seeing as it will probably be killed anyway why bother.

[Goose 0]

Thats the reaction I am looking Luthien.I want be people to be surpirsed and shocled by what i have said.Maybe just maybe we will all stop and think and let it sink in.

 

 

It's time peace talks began.

 

If any of you wants to disagree with me I beg you to send me a PM and dont start it here.

[Goose 0]

Thats not how it has always been Fenriz.Before threads were rarely closed because they did not need to be.Everyone is always arguing so even the slightest little comment are taken offensive. Thats one of the big problems right now as i see it.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Thats not how it has always been Fenriz.Before threads were rarely closed because they did not need to be.Everyone is always arguing so even the slightest little comment are taken offensive. Thats one of the big problems right now as i see it.

We are pinpointing the instigators of the arguments, the situation will be dealt with properly.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I've four things to say:

 

1. I agree with everything you said, Goose.

 

2. STF.net was fine till ST.com shut down their chatroom, then we got flooded with people who've no idea how to behave on a message board, treating it like a chatroom. Who invited all those people anyway? I never did like most ST.comers.

 

3. People are too sensitive these days. They should be able to read a post without taking it personal unless adressed to them by name.

 

4. We have too many "pointless" posts by people trying to increase their post count. Stuff like someone saying "I don't know." when someone asks a question.

[mj 7]

I don't think arguing per se is the problem, Goose. We argued in the past without getting so very angry with one another that things degenerated into insults.

 

I remember some emotional threads in RISA that went on and on because it was basically on topic, and people did not insult each other, but they did disagree, and at times emotionally. And yet they were civil to each other in other threads, and would agree with someone they just argued with in another thread.

 

I think the things that have happened a lot lately is that we have an influx of new members that were not aware that when we argue here, we do it civilly, and we do not get extremely personal to the point of flinging insult after insult. The moderators have to step in when things get out of control--these are growing pains. They have to educate the new members.

 

I think we have had the problem of getting way off-topic in a few threads, and that some were closed in part because we were off-topic. I know I was involved in getting off topic in a thread that was closed down.

 

I think there is a little less real discussion. I know the replies to several of my posts recently have completely ignored what I said, and answered as if I had made an opposite point. But even those things have happened in the past. I remember some members talking to others about this very issue in RISA.

 

I think we need to decide to just be committed to the startrekfans.net we know and love and continue to do the best we can to communicate. Perhaps our struggle here mirrors the struggle that would have to take place in any diverse commmunity where an attempt at real commuication was being made. This includes age diversity.

 

I am trying to remember that as a nearly 48-year-old that often I am talking 13-year-olds, 16-year-olds, 25-year-olds, and 31-year-olds, etc.. I was born when the civil rights movement was in full force, and grew up when severe segregation was ending. I have an entirely different worldview than someone in their thirties. We all have extremely different perspectives and beliefs, inspite of loving Star Trek.

 

Lastly, we should remain committed to the startrekfans.net we have known and loved, because ocassionally we have someone who will come just to be disruptive. I am not accusing anyone in particular of this, because I cannot read minds. But if that is someone's motive, then remaining committed to the vision we have had is the best way to win out in the end.

Edited March 11, 2004 by mjham

[hangon 3]

I've four things to say:

 

1. I agree with everything you said, Goose.

 

2. STF.net was fine till ST.com shut down their chatroom, then we got flooded with people who've no idea how to behave on a message board, treating it like a chatroom.  Who invited all those people anyway?  I never did like most ST.comers.

 

3. People are too sensitive these days.  They should be able to read a post without taking it personal unless adressed to them by name.

 

4. We have too many "pointless" posts by people trying to increase their post count.  Stuff like someone saying "I don't know." when someone asks a question.

Thanks i am for the old startrek .com its things like this that make me wanna go back but i am gonna stay just to piss you off

[RikerChick 5]

You can't say it's just the people from ST.com that don't know how to behave since most of the founding members of this board were in fact from ST.com.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I've four things to say:

 

1. I agree with everything you said, Goose.

 

2. STF.net was fine till ST.com shut down their chatroom, then we got flooded with people who've no idea how to behave on a message board, treating it like a chatroom.  Who invited all those people anyway?  I never did like most ST.comers.

 

3. People are too sensitive these days.  They should be able to read a post without taking it personal unless adressed to them by name.

 

4. We have too many "pointless" posts by people trying to increase their post count.  Stuff like someone saying "I don't know." when someone asks a question.

Thanks i am for the old startrek .com its things like this that make me wanna go back but i am gonna stay just to piss you off

It wasn't pointed at you, I'm sure.

[Goose 0]

SEE SEE THATS IT RIGHT THERE!!!!!

 

 

CJLP the comment

2. STF.net was fine till ST.com shut down their chatroom, then we got flooded with people who've no idea how to behave on a message board, treating it like a chatroom. Who invited all those people anyway? I never did like most ST.comers.

 

That wasnt neccassary CJLP.Thats exactly what i am talking about!!! By saying that its a personal attack towards a certian groupd of people,You never said stuff like that before! Now hangon is mad because of it.

 

Those are exactly the kinds of comments that need to stop and are causing what is gonig on here.

 

3. People are too sensitive these days. They should be able to read a post without taking it personal unless adressed to them by name.

 

This is true for the most part.

 

Mjham I am not saying aruging is a bad thing its the perosnal attacks and the comments that are not needed and not on topic that needs to stop!!

[hangon 3]

Sorry goose i didnt wanna get mad i know you didnt want this here

but it hurt me a little cause i have always thought this site was friendly

i like to think i left st.com for a better site not to come here and mess up

this one.....sorry dude

[Goose 0]

Well it isnt just one persons falut its everybodys.We have all contributed to what has been going on here in one way or another.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Sorry goose i didnt wanna get mad i know you didnt want this here

but it hurt me a little cause i have always thought this site was friendly

i like to think i left st.com for a better site not to come here and mess up

this one.....sorry dude

You haven't messed anything up. There may be a few bumps here and there but not caused by you and nothing we can't deal with.

[mj 7]

I hear you. I don't know what's going myself. I'm had threads killed with no explaination, posts removed without any complaints, topics I try reply to that are suddenly closed. The rule here seems to be free speech as long as you agree with me. Personally I don't care anymore. I've made my concerns apparent(sic) to the mods, if they choose to do something about it,who knows? If this is the way it's going to be I'll find a new site. IMO there are mods here that should havenever been made mods. I have more that goes with this rant but seeing as it will probably be killed anyway why bother.

I think you are mistaken about the moderators. They are pretty even-handed. I have disagreed with different moderators in different threads, and have no fear of retribution when I disagree with them in the future, because it is impossible that we will see eye-to-eye on all issues.

 

I have had a post removed, and threads I was involved in shut down. For the post that was removed, the moderator who did so e-mailed me to explain what I had done against board rules and that I could correct it and repost, which I did.

 

With the closed threads, I look at both my perspective and and the mods' perspective, to try to see if I believe I contributed to the problem. The fact is that the moderators usually post why they close a thread, so you can evaluate the situation. Or you could ask why yourself.

 

But part of that evaluation has to be a self-evaluation. You have to ask yourself if you contributed

to the problem that caused the shut down. Then you can address whether or not a moderator has made an error.

 

One of the moderators had been watching a series of posts in RISA and thought I and a few others were acting as a group, and that we were exhibiting flaming behavior, and gave us a firm warning in a post. I replied in a post, and gave a step-by-step why of each post. Others also explained their posts. The moderator understood, and removed the reprimand and the replies to the reprimand, and the thread returned to its subject.

 

But other times I may have been at fault. ( Still hard to accept that I contributed to a thread closing down...but facts are facts.)

 

If you want this to be a board you can participate on, then you have to do more than just defend your own position when you are having a run-in with a moderator in his/her role as moderator. You have to look at your own behavior and try to assess whether or not it is you that are in error. And if you decide it is not, make your case civilly.

 

Lastly, vulgar or insulting threads are not allowed here. I saw many racist and insulting threads posted on startrek.com message board, with no intervention. I remember one in particluar that speculated on Geordi's body in a vulgar and racist way. That is not allowed here: freedom of speech is not license to express yourself in the most base and derogatory manner you can imagine.

[mj 7]

Mjham I am not saying aruging is a bad thing its the perosnal attacks and the comments that are not needed and not on topic that needs to stop!!

I agree that the problem is personal attacks. Also there is a problem with staying on topic, which I have sometimes contributed to. Mea culpa.

Edited March 11, 2004 by mjham

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Well said mjham.

[hangon 3]

You haven't messed anything up. There may be a few bumps here and there but not caused by you and nothing we can't deal with. 

Thats ok then cause i dont wanna make problems with any one

i anit that type of person i just wanna have fun here at the BEST

SITE ON THE PLANET

[Gotabite 0]

I don't think arguing per se is the problem, Goose. We argued in the past without getting so very angry with one another that things degenerated into insults.

 

I think the things that have happened a lot lately is that we have an influx of new members that were not aware that when we argue here, we do it civilly, and we do not get extremely personal to the point of flinging insult after insult. The moderators have to step in when things get out of control--these are growing pains. They have to educate the new members.

 

I think we have had the problem of getting way off-topic in a few threads, and that some were closed in part because we were off-topic. I know I was involved in getting off topic in a thread that was closed down.

 

 

 

Perhaps our struggle here mirrors the struggle that would have to take place in any diverse commmunity where an attempt at real commuication was being made. This includes age diversity.

 

 

 

I think you hit on some major issues here that we all should think about.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Hmmm.... To CJLP: i am from st.com, and i think you are being a little unfair, as i am from ST.com, and i try not to argue. but we do all argue, no stopping that, but please, pleasE(this goes for EVERYONE)[even the mods] DO YOUR ARGUING IN PM'S WHERE IT CANT BOTHER THE OTHER PEOPLE! PLEASE! FOR GOODNESS SAKES PEOPLE!

[Jeanway 0]

I was in ST.Com. It was a Free-for-All in there. We had no rules, no Mods, and could say anything. Now we have to learn some new ways of communicating. I also think the worst of the worst over there, aren't here. They might have been, for a short time but left because they couldn't act the way they wanted to in here. I don't mind changing myself to fit in here, it's difficult and sometimes very unpleasant to learn a new behavior. But it's a change for the better. I see that the Mods have a difficult job in here, trying to make sense out of chaos sometimes. Peoples words don't always reflect their intentions. A perfectly benign statement can turn into a battle of wills. Yet at the same time some outrageous statement can turn into a nice discussion. You never know how something is going to be received.

[mj 7]

Some debate is on topic, even when a bit heated, and can stay in a thread if it remains civil. It is personal attack we want to avoid. I don't think people should fail to be civil in their personal messages, but should take off-topic comments to the PM's.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

i ment the fights and stuff, not the ON TOPIC arguements

[Nemesis 0]

Shouldn't even have them on PMs.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

oh, why not?

[Nemesis 0]

oh, why not?

Because it only makes bad feelings in the boards, I have recieved "fight" Pms from a member so I blocked him.

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

Debate Is Always Good For Boards...That's Why We're Here...But Yeah..Down Right Arguing Is Uncalled For.

 

And Sometimes Certain People(Not Saying Who) Will Say Something Totally Uncalled For...Yet They're Too...(Well...Can't Think Of The Right Word) To See It.

 

 

Maybe That Was Harsh...But It's My Opinion

Edited March 11, 2004 by Sam The Smuggler

[Guest Ktrek]

I am at a loss as to all the animosity. This board has always been a very friendly place to hang out on but the last couple of days I have seen attitudes and posturing that is very unfriendly.

 

None of us are going to agree and see eye to eye on everything. What I don't like are people who are unwilling to acknowledge or listen to other points of view.

 

The thing that bugs me the most are people, and there are several lately, who, by their answer, never bothered to read what you posted correctly. Is it some form of viral dyslexia? Then when you try and get "clarification" as to their meaning, motive and intention, they become all defensive instead of helping you understand their viewpoint.

 

If a thread is started anyone can contibute or comment. If a comment is quoted it does not mean it is a personal attack but the need for fuller, clearer information. I have found several on here do not take the time to seriously think of what their post says before they hit the "send" button. If more people would carefully read what they have written to make sure that any details to help clarify your thoughts are included we would have less problems. Instead we get smart-alec remarks that add fuel to the fire.

 

Then you have some people that no matter how hard you try to work with them they have something against you for no "intelligent" reason. They will never acknowledge their inability to communicate preoperly and want to put the blame on you when you have done everything with good intentions to try and help them or understand them better. They just "assume" that everyone understands them and if you don't then that's "your" problem. Actually it reflects on them as poor communicators.

 

I hope that everyone will try and keep focused. I'm sorry that things have gotten out of hand around here and I'm also sorry for any part I may have played unintentionally.

 

Ktrek

[Jeanway 0]

The implication that some one took offense for no " intelligent" reason sounds like your calling someone stupid. Also saying if people took the time to read what they wrote before sending, implies that your sitting right there with them and know every move everybody makes. Implication. Like you know everything. Then why do people have to ' explain' every single point they make. Can't you, meaning you, the whole group, just accept another's point without beating it to death because either you don't understand, or it doesn't agree with what you believe?