How can we improve American Public schools?

[Jim Phaserman 0]

THe topic says it. How do we improve the public schools in the US? I would like to ask though that we leave the politics of who has a better education policy out of this. we are discussing our schools, not our presidents or congressmen.

 

Now, Alot of people think the biggest problem is a lack of funding. in certain areas, that is definately a problem. Inner city schools tend to get less money in than suburban schools do. Perhaps the way to solve that problem is to get Item-specific grants to these schools. Grants that would be designated soley for school renovations to improve the building and environment, or grants to buy newer editions of text books. these grants require that they be used soley for that purpose, or the money is lost.

 

 

I think one of the BIGGEST problems faced by ALL schools is that kids just don't want to go. what are some ways we can get kids into the classrooms on a more regular basis?

 

 

Now: One for the parents: What can YOU do to make sure teachers are actually teaching rather than babysitting? I hear it alot from teachers I know that many parents use schools like a babysitting program so they can get away from their kids.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Well, Jim -you hit my hot topic, soapbox shouting button. There is nothing so frustrating to me as the problems with the education system in our country. So here's my rant and rampage.

 

I don't have children - but I have nieces and nephews who I worry about. I also wanted to be a teacher but the lack of discipline in schools and other red tape issues are too much for me.

 

Education:

The absolute biggest influence in a child's performance is their family and home life. So the way to improve schools is to improve families - no amount of money, no program, no amount of computers and technology, nor the fanciest and biggest buildings will compensate for parents failure to do their jobs.

 

On one end of the spectrum we have children being born to children who lack the education and maturity to both earn an income and raise a child.

 

On the other end you have the influential and/or wealthy parents who threaten teachers and adminstrators with lawsuits in order to get their kids the "grades" they need for college - thus making a 4.0 or higher meaningless and lowering the quality of student preparedness for college. And what does this teach children about responsibility?

 

In the middle you have the tired, frustrated and frightened ordinary parents trying to get their child a good education, while teaching them basic morality and hoping they don't get killed in a gun battle on the school grounds or fall prey to drug dealers. These parents battle the nearly unconquerable forces of the media and entertainment industry that teach that any sort of responsibility is "bad" - that no adult should be spoken to with respect - that the purpose of life is to get toys, indulge the desires, and be a smart a$$.

 

I think one of the major social ills we have in this uncountry is teenage unwed mothers. Presidential policy isn't going to "fix" this. Familes, communities, churches etc need to say whoa - don't have a baby until you can provide for it - that is the responsible thing to do. My heart aches for the little ones born into this environment (as I've mentioned in other threads I've seen the pattern in my own family with heartbreaking results) This relates to education because children from welfare homes tend to have less learning readiness when they enter school and keep getting further behind.

 

But since we are going to spend tax dollars.

1. We should have early intervention programs aimed at children from high risk family environments to make sure these kids enter school at the same learning readiness. This is crucial

 

2. I think smaller schools rather than these "megatropolises" will help with school violence.

 

3. Tackle the drug problem

 

4. Keep or add art and music to the curriculum - music programs for younger children will actually help them do better in math and science. It also helps children became well rounded individuals.

 

5. As for funding - there are schools in this country in terrible shape. And there are battles in some states whether taxes should be distributed evenly throughout the state on stay within their county - in other words don't take money from the rich to aid the poor. I see both sides of the issue but if we don't educate our children we will all suffer for it. I think we as citizens have divorced ourselves from our communties and leave everything up to the government. Local businesses and parents could volunteer supplies and labor to make some school improvements. Maybe we should revamp how schools are funded and require more parental involvement.

 

6. Parents need to make sure their child does their homework.

 

7. Parents need to have a sit down family dinner with the tv off and talk with thier child. They also need to send their child outside to play more - fresh air and sunshine is good for them - and ensure they spend less time in front of the tv or pc.

 

8. Parents need to see their child has a healthy balanced diet and get sufficient sleep.

 

9. Parents need to teach their children manners.

 

10. As to the babysitting issue - first, families today face major time constraints because both parents work leaving less time and energy to do the hard job of parenting. Second, the US is extremely materialist and some people consider entertainment a "need" sometimes to the point of susperseding the need to teach children responsible behavior. Ideally, for parents with school aged children it would be best if one parent could work part time or both had flexible schedules. But this would require the business world to consider child rearing important. You would think as businesses continue to get less and less qualified high school graduates as employees they might think parenting is important.

 

That was a long rant - but the short answer is "education" is not a discrete program but rather is intricately related to the other sectors of our society - particularly the family - and until all these sectors value children as a priority we will continue to have problems. We need to return to the basics of hard work and responsible behavior. Work is not a four letter word. I read a study some time ago that showed that the best school performances weren't in fancy neighborhoods with lots of technology but in the midwest where kids did chores and had stable homes.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Privatize. Get the government out of the equation. I went to both public and private schools. The Private schools were far superior to the public schools.

[Rivendells_king 0]

I think Privatizing schools is a bad idea. I think it would separate students from other cultures or ethnic groups *could be wrong* I had a really bad experience with a private school, instead of helping me the teachers were only concerned about basketball and if I went to church or not almost failed 8th grade year.

 

I am going to agree with TUH for a better education the changes need to start at home. Parents should start cracking down on their kids teaching them manners and respect. I have been stuck with some of the rudest students ever for classes and they never showed respect to anybody. Their attitude did not affect them only but it also affected me as well.

 

I also think that schools should at least require their students to either be in a extra curricular sport or in a art program like choir or band.

 

Thats just what I think.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I think Privatizing schools is a bad idea. I think it would separate students from other cultures or ethnic groups *could be wrong* I had a really bad experience with a private school, instead of helping me the teachers were only concerned about basketball and if I went to church or not almost failed 8th grade year.

 

I am going to agree with TUH for a better education the changes need to start at home. Parents should start cracking down on their kids teaching them manners and respect. I have been stuck with some of the rudest students ever for classes and they never showed respect to anybody. Their attitude did not affect them only but it also affected me as well.

 

I also think that schools should at least require their students to either be in a extra curricular sport or in a art program like choir or band.

 

Thats just what I think.

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I was exposed to many other cultures in school when I was in Private school and as for ethnic groups why would it separate students from from ethnic groups?

 

The biggest problem with public schools is the government and Teacher's Unions.

 

I don't have children, but if the day ever comes that I do have any I can promise you they won't be going to public schools.

[Rivendells_king 0]

VBG when you mean private schools do you mean religous private schools? Because if you do have you ever seen a muhammad allah in a saint peters private school? Point is that when you privatize schools most people will send their kids to a religous private school keeping most of them away from other religons, at least thats what I think.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

VBG when you mean private schools do you mean religous private schools? Because if you do have you ever seen a muhammad allah in a saint peters private school? Point is that when you privatize schools most people will send their kids to a religous private school keeping most of them away from other religons, at least thats what I think.

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Private School doesn't have to mean "Religious School" but that should be a choice of the parent anyway not a choice of the government and not "Society".

 

Also, just because someone goes to a Baptist school or a Catholic school doesn't mean they don't learn about other cultures. I went to a Baptist school in 7th grade and learned more about Islam then I had in all of my previous years in public school combined.

 

The education that a student gets in private school is far above the public school system also. I left the Public school system at the end of 6th grade and when I took the test to get into private school it was determined that I was a full year behind where I should have been. A friend of mine also left public school at the same time as I did and the same was true with her. I was able to catch up that year during my 7th grade year but it wasn't easy.

 

We are doing the children a grave disservice by pushing them through the public school system. If you want to improve the education of our future then allow parents the freedom to send their children to the schools that they want them to go to. Get the government out of the business of babysitting.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

There are non-religious private schools. Although currently religious parents are leading the flight to private schools and/or home schooling. IMO, it is unfair for these parents to have to pay taxes to support public schools and then fork out money for their own children's tuition.

 

Private school kids do tend to better than kids in public schools but I think that is in part because private schools attract the families that become involved in their child's education and teach their children responsibility and the schools have greater leeway in disciplining bad behavior.

 

Kids in public schools don't always get multicultural exposure - and even if the student body is diverse children often hang out in their own groups whether ethnic, economic or religious. And the emphasis on sports over academics happens in public schools too.

 

On another note, I'm not so sure that religious schools are bad - if you're surrounded by people that share your beliefs you don't have to explain (or defend) yourself or your views. Some public schools are actively hostile to religious students.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I agree with everything you said TUH, but I do think one big reason that kids in private schools do better and the education level is higher then in public schools is at least in part due to other reasons.

 

One reason is that the teachers can be more easily fired in a private school. A lot of people might wonder how that's a good thing but if a teacher isn't doing a good job and isn't teaching their students then they don't belong in that job. In the public school system it can be very hard to fire below average teachers.

 

Another reason is class size, smaller classes means that teachers can give much more individual attention then students in public schools get. I had 1 main teacher from 8th grade through 12th grade. There were other teachers for a few different topics but the majority of my classes were by 1 teacher. I'm still in touch with her to this day (I graduated in 1987).

 

Another reason I believe is because the teachers seem to care more, at least in my experience. The private school teachers that I knew had to make personal sacrifices just to be there. They made less money to be there and gave better quality time to each student.

 

So as you can tell I give the teachers a whole lot of credit, but I do agree that the parents are a very important part of the equation. Not the only part though. But just having their kids in private school didn't mean that they were more interested or more involved, in many cases with my friends their parents had to work extra jobs to be able to afford the school and that meant that they (the parents) didn't have the time to give to them to ensure that they did what they were supposed to do.

 

Also, me saying that the school system should be privatized should not be confused with people that go to private schools. I am saying that the government should not be in the business of dictating education. The school system as we know it now should be completely privatized. How does that get done? I don't know, but get it out of the government.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I also think that schools should at least require their students to either be in a extra curricular sport or in a art program like choir or band.

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It's funny you mention this, RK. As part of my training as a teacher, and I saw alot of surveys. MJ will probably tell you the same thing. if it's an issue, there is at least 1 survey out about it. I swear I saw one about weather students did better with pens or pencils. but back on topic, I saw a few that suggested students in extracurriculars such as sports and clubs get better grades, by as much as half a GPA point. I can relate this to me personally: I played Football and I wrestled in High School, and during the football and wrestling seasons, I maintained a 3.1 GPA. during the off season, that dropped to a 2.8.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I also think that schools should at least require their students to either be in a extra curricular sport or in a art program like choir or band.

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It's funny you mention this, RK. As part of my training as a teacher, and I saw alot of surveys. MJ will probably tell you the same thing. if it's an issue, there is at least 1 survey out about it. I swear I saw one about weather students did better with pens or pencils. but back on topic, I saw a few that suggested students in extracurriculars such as sports and clubs get better grades, by as much as half a GPA point. I can relate this to me personally: I played Football and I wrestled in High School, and during the football and wrestling seasons, I maintained a 3.1 GPA. during the off season, that dropped to a 2.8.

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Aren't students required to maintain a certain gpa in order to participate in sports? A correlation between extra curriculars and grades doesn't necessarily imply and cause and effect. It is possible the same factor that compels a student to compete also compels them to study harder - so that if you take students not interested in those areas and force them to participate they might just bring down the statistics.

 

I've also seen statistics that children active in religious programs do better in school - does that mean students should be required to go to church?

 

I have to agree with VBG, there should be some sort of privitization, perhaps something along the line of co-ops or associations. Parents would have greater control over their student's education.

 

VBG, I understand what you're saying about teacher's unions and tenure and about teacher's giving up more pay to work in a private school.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

At most schools, the required minimum GPA isn't so much an issue as is not failing. a student could potentially get all Ds and still be eligable, but if they are failing ONE class, they are academically ineligable.I think this usually motivates students to work harder in school, so they DON'T get sidelined for grades.

 

as for the Religious part, I'm not sure, but I don't forsee anyone requiring any student to take part in them.

[gul_nodrog 2]

Well, I'm sending my child to a public school, but it is a public school like no other. We live in a suburb of Cincinnati (Ft. Mitchell, Kentucky) and the school is Kindergarten through 12th grade all under one roof with a population of less than 1000 including all 13 grades. Talk about a small, nurturing environment ... it is really incredible and it's COMPLETELY FREE. There are folks who live out of district who pay tuition ($3000 a year) just to go to our little public school. The property value of our home, which sits right in the middle of this district, is double what it would be anywhere else in this area. 100% graduation rate ... no kid quits school around here. Small school, big parental involvement, huge sports and band program ... it's unbelievable. We are so lucky.

 

My husband is a teacher in a public school in Ohio. He sees all kinds of kids. We believe that the way to improve education in the public schools in this country is for politicians to stop filling parents head with pipe dreams of every kid in this country being able to go to college. That is just patently ridiculous. Schools keep lowering their standards, teaching to these standardized tests that the state and federal government keeps throwing at them, just so they can show statistical improvement and KEEP the funding they should be getting anyway.

 

Fortunately, colleges and universities are not LOWERING or CHANGING their standards to accommodate these stupid and unrealistic parents. If anything, colleges seem to be raising their standards. Unfortunately, today's high school graduate is probably less prepared for the rigours of college life than we were 20 years ago.

 

I get tired of hearing about how U.S. schools are failing. I had a professor in college who filled me in on this little factoid. Those other countries that appear to be excelling and exceeding the U.S. in math and science only test the top 5% or 10% of their students. In the U.S. we test the entire student population. Now if that is not comparing apples to oranges, I don't know what is. I would postulate that U.S. schools are not "failing." Parents and families are "failing." The school is not in the job of social work and cannot fix what is wrong in the home.

 

It is a fact in any society that cream rises to the top. Smart kids are always going to be smart kids. When we try to "leave no child behind," the children who get hurt are the ones who really ought to be pursuing vocational education but are being pushed into more academic subjects because no one wants them to be left behind. Well, face it folks ... some people have to fix cars, fix plumbing, fix electricity, string cable wire, dig ditches, clean toilets for cripes sake. Our society requires these tasks ... are we encouraging any of these kids to do any of this stuff? Do we make them feel like failures if that is what they want to do? That is just wrong. The people who do the "dirty" work in this country are the most important people living here. What would we do without them?

[Spockstellaiter 0]

The best solution is homeschool. God commands parents to teach children in the way they should go.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Well, I'm sending my child to a public school, but it is a public school like no other.  We live in a suburb of Cincinnati (Ft. Mitchell, Kentucky) and the school is Kindergarten through 12th grade all under one roof with a population of less than 1000 including all 13 grades.  Talk about a small, nurturing environment ... it is really incredible and it's COMPLETELY FREE. 

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It sounds very much like the school I went to from 8th grade through 12th grade. It was K-4 through 12th grade. There were 9 people in my graduating class.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

My husband is a teacher in a public school in Ohio.  He sees all kinds of kids.  We believe that the way to improve education in the public schools in this country is for politicians to stop filling parents head with pipe dreams of every kid in this country being able to go to college.  That is just patently ridiculous.  Schools keep lowering their standards, teaching to these standardized tests that the state and federal government keeps throwing at them, just so they can show statistical improvement and KEEP the funding they should be getting anyway.

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Very well said. As I have said in other posts it is unrealistic to assume every child will go to college, wants to go to college, or even has it in their best interests to go to college.

 

However, I disagree when you say schools are entitled to funding. I don't see a right to an education anywhere in the Constitution. So let me throw an idea out there:

 

What if there were no government funding of education? What if we treated education like we do every other economic good?

 

First of all, if parents had to pay the entire bill for their child's education there would be more accountability. Parents would insist on it since it would directly affect their pocketbooks.

 

Second, the schools themselves would become more efficient. They would have to compete for resources as opposed to accepting a certain level of government funding as a given. A lot of the waste we see now would be reduced.

 

Third, because of 1 and 2 above, the overall cost of education will be reduced. Many parents who say they can't afford private schools might find themselves being able to if the taxes they pay on the current system were eliminated.

 

Fourth, since politics is removed from the funding equation if public money is not involved, we also remove the "politics in the classroom" issue.

 

Fifth, instead of parents complaining that "not enough money is spent on education", they would have direct control of how much actually is spent (relative to other spending needs) rather than leaving it up to the political process and hoping for the best.

 

Some will say that under the completely market-based education system I am advocating the better education will go to those who could better afford it, but how would that be any different than what we have now?

Edited November 1, 2004 by lt_van_roy

[Nemesis 0]

First off privaticing school is a bad idea, many parents would not be able to "afford" to send their children to school, a lot of parents have a hard enough time feeding their children and giving them the funds to go to school. Do you see how many Americans can't even afford to go to hospitals? Now add the educations to that budget, it's also a "Huge" myth to suggest that children in private schools do better, yes they get better grades, but do you want to tell a parent that their kid is failing school when they're paying lots of money to send them there? Big NO...

 

I know this from the experience of many of my friends who were in private schools then came to public school and were far behind in education, unable to keep up with us. What I think should happen is not "privatization" because all that does is mess things up ten fold for inner city kids ruining basically all their chances for the future.

 

TUH you say there is no education program that can fix families? Well thats far off the ball, this is why in my school we have "Career and Life Management" classes that teaches how to do a budget for a family and the proper way to look after a child, this has had great success with families who have finished high school and went out to have children of their own. Our school also doesn't leech off the government like many other schools, we do lots of fundraising through the year, allowing us to have more then other schools.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

First off privaticing school is a bad idea, many parents would not be able to "afford" to send their children to school, a lot of parents have a hard enough time feeding their children and giving them the funds to go to school. Do you see how many Americans can't even afford to go to hospitals? Now add the educations to that budget,

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You are basing this on the budget constraints parents currently face. What you have to remember is that if the government stops spending on education AND stops taxing for education the money that parents currently spend on education taxes could be spent on education directly. Many parents would be better off under such a system.

 

Of course the main problem is the tax structure we currently have makes it hard to determine 1) how much we are taxed for education purposes and 2) how much of this money is really spent on education. If it is privatized then at least we will know.

 

Without a full, transparent disclosure we don't have the facts to decide this issue. However, don't count on getting those facts anytime soon. Congress recently paid a "Big 4" CPA firm to perform an audit of the Department of Education and found that the financial records were in such dissarray that an audit simply couldn't be performed.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Nem, I was not off base - the government can not make people stop having illegitimate children - which in the US is a major cause of poverty - and in general these children have a documented lower skill level when entering school. In fact, you'd be screaming foul if they tried. No, that is something families and the community must address. And until they do - much of the money we spend on "programs" will continue to be ineffective.

 

You also can not attribute your personal experiences to society as a whole, nor can you assume what works in your country will work in ours. Homeschooled and private school children have been shown to possess better academic skills not just grades. I went to the Kindergarten graduation at a private school one of my nieces attends and I was amazed at the performance of those children.

 

I also took some courses at a community college a couple of years ago and I was amazed at the behavior and attitude of the students there. It was depressing - I had to meet much higher standards when I was in in jr. college for my degree.

 

lt. van roy has a point - people tend not to waste money so much when it is theirs. And if we had lower taxes we would have more to spend on necessities.

 

Here's my personal experience forgive me if I've shared this.

Click For Spoiler

A couple of holidays back I attended dinners with two different branches of the family. There was a pregnant woman of similar relation to me at both dinners. One was never married expecting her fourth child (different fathers) and I don't know that she ever had a job.

 

The other was married two small children and had just found out her unexpected pregnancy was a double whammy (twins). Both parents worked full time. They had a daughter who wanted to go to school - she wanted to go so bad she would play "school" at home when her grandmother kept her. Her dad checked with the school a block from their home. They were told they made too much money - they should consider private school (They were paying taxes for the other kids to go but their kid couldn't go)

 

I was telling another niece about this and the other pregnant mom overheard us and piped in about how her daughter went to school and how much she loved it etc etc. - totally clueless to the travesty of justice this involved. They qualified because the mother didn't work

 

That's one reason I believe schools should be privitized but I tried to offer suggestions for public schools because one - that was Jim's question and two - I don't expect it to happen. It's just wrong for parents to be double billed.

 

If we lower our taxes and run schools more efficiently then we will have money to give to charity which can run schools or provide stipends to needy families.

[master_q 0]

All of the "solutions" that the politicians are trying to implement are backfiring. I remember the RNC use to say in 1996 that they were for demolishing the Department of Education, but now President Bush and other Republicans have increased the size by 75%. The writer of the notorious bill that Bush signed should tell everyone all they need to know, but for whatever reason, many kool-aid drinkers keep on cheerleading it. And at the same time, the Democrats and the Democrat kool-aid drinkers trash it, but in reality Clinton wanted to do basically the same exact thing Bush has done. It shows the complete hypocrisy and double standards (from both "sides").

 

Bellow is from the Libertarian Party's platform:

 

St. Adalbert School scores a “zero” in categories parents care most about.

 

Zero gangs. Zero drugs. Zero pregnancies. Zero violence. Zero guards. Zero metal detectors.

 

What’s its secret? It’s not the location: St. Adalbert School is situated right in the heart of inner-city Cleveland. And it’s not the sky-high tuition fees. Tuition at St. Adalbert is only $975 per year; which covers about half the total cost per student. By comparison, the average cost-per-student in public schools is $6,857.

 

Yet, St. Adalbert School outscores government-run schools in almost every category. Including crucial areas like school violence where “zero” is the best possible score.

 

What’s the secret? It’s simple: St. Adalbert School is not fun by the government. So, it either produces a good “product” (that is, educated students), or its “customers” (parents) go somewhere else.

 

Compare this to the government schools. The worse they do, the more money politicians pour into the system. For example, American high school SAT scores fell by an average of 50 points between 1970 and 1995. During the same time, federal education spending nearly doubled from $19 billion to $35 billion.

 

In other words, private schools are rewarded when they succeed. But government schools are rewarded even when they fail.

 

Libertarians don’t think we’re getting our money’s worth from the government-run school system. To begin restoring full control and responsibility to parents so that every child has the opportunity to get a good education, we will:

 

*Enact a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for any individual (or company) who pays for a child’s education. Such a program in Arizona allows taxpayers to donate up to $500 for scholarships and get that money back, dollar for dollar, at tax filing time. The program has raised $32 million since 1997, and funded more than 19,000 scholarships ---- 80% for children from “financially needy” families. Nationally, such a program will allow parents to buy the educational services that are the best for their children.

 

*Get the federal government out of education, which will return decision-making and money to states,  communities, and parents. Since 1980, more than $550 billion has been routed through federal bureaucrats in the Department of Educating. Their principal contribution to your child’s education: More regulations. The federal government only accounts for about 6% of all education spending, but one-third of all regulations. More regulations don’t improve education. But putting more money ---- and choices ---- in the hands of parents would help guarantee that America truly “leaves no child behind.”

 

I don't personal consider myself a true-blood libertarian; I consider myself a conservative-libertarian. I agree with the Libertarian Party here and it parallels my conservative-libertarian view-point. There is a reason the education system has been deteriorating, and that reason has to correlate to something. But the public education system has not been getting better ----- it has been getting worse. There is no denying that the system is getting worse and the solution has always been to expand the government role & bureaucracy in the education system. Government has also empowered the teaching unions, who have destroyed choices, accountability and so forth. And the Department of Education did not even exist until President Carter created it as a political payoff for the powerful teachers unions after they helped him defeat Gerald Ford.

 

If we just let the free markets work with minimal government (and no federal government), then a bloom of flowers will spark up and choices will come, which, will give power to the individual, and that will in turn, give accountability while filtering out the bad flowers.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Theunicornhunter 2]

mq, I do like the tax credit idea but I still maintain financial arrangements alone aren't going to fix our problems - we need responsible behavior by parents & students as well.

[Rivendells_king 0]

I also think they should require one Forgien language like spanish, seen that soon spanish will become our countrys number one language. Maybe its just me but I like learning other languages and cultures. And also schools should weed out the slakers and not allow them any places to go because they are to lazy to do their homework. Like having these academic assistance programs which only slakers go into. That is dumb I hate the idea. Maybe they should raise the standards before placing students in Special education *SPED* Its pretty sad when I'm stuck in a SPED class with these students that are lazy and have "issues" and I am on the honor roll and student council.

[master_q 0]

mq, I do like the tax credit idea but I still maintain financial arrangements alone aren't going to fix our problems - we need responsible behavior by parents & students as well.

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No question. I don't want to go off on a big tangent, but I believe that much of culture has gone to the tubes. There is no question that has an impact...

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Gotabite 0]

I agree so much with what UH had to say about how to improve our schools...........child rearing is one of the key issues. I'm not labeling families, either. I'm only saying that the values and home environment are key to children's attitude towards learning and their respect for authority.

I grew during the days of segregation in the south. My schools received very little in the way of funding, equipment, books, school renovations, etc..........Society at that time didn't encourage or even care whether we were educated or not. But at home, whether we came from single family or two family homes; we were taught the value of an education, and respect for authority. Our schools had the right to discipline us, without being threatened or intimidated by parents. Some behavior issues did exist back then, as they do now. But even after you were disciplined school, when you got home from school our parents would discipline us all over again about misbehaving at school. Right and wrong, respect, and values were key at home........There was very little, defiance at home. So there was very little at school. Parents were in charge at home and teachers were in charge at school. Teachers were creative and made do with whatever they had..........We learned at school, under some of the worst physcial deprivation you could imagine, because education was very important to us. Our parents ingrained in us the value of an education.........and from our poor, poverty strickened schools, we were still able to compete with students across town whose schools had most of the money.

[Rivendells_king 0]

Um I think that private schools are ok because most people send their students to public schools making only those who can afford private schools to be able to send their kids to them. What would happen if the public system was privatized? Wouldn't more students need to go to private schools destroying the theory that private schools have smaller classes and teachers can give one on one attention?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

It's a well documented fact that the private sector is better able to manage things then the government. If the school system was turned over to the private sector then all schools currently run by the government would become privately run.

 

You are confusing "private schools" with a school system run by the private sector.

 

As for "only those who can afford private schools" being able to send their kids there I can tell you from first hand experience that that is not the case. My parent's couldn't "afford" it but they sacrificed to get me out of the public system. My mother had to go to work to be able to pay the tuition while at the same time her tax dollars were paying for my friends to go to public school. My teachers were making about $10,000 a year less to work in my school so they made personal sacrifices also.

 

But as I said, you are completely confusing "private schools" with a privately run school system. The private sector, which is parents will mean a more efficient school system with better qualified teachers.

 

We just need to get the government out of our personal lives, the government doesn't belong there.

[Rivendells_king 0]

OK sorry about that

[Jeanway 0]

VBG, I agree. With the Private Sector now into taking over the, well, the Space program, ::cough:: and also some Private Sectors taking over some of the Prisons, why not the Public Schools??? If they start out small and I'm sure in time they would be a viable educational alternative.

 

I attended a privately owned school. Supported by the alumni and tuitions. There was no government interference whatsoever. BUT it was considered to be an "All White" school. Which wasn't fair at all. I didn't have any friends in High school of other races or cultures. That, I think isn't a good idea.

 

The first time someone called me "White Bread", I had no idea what they were talking about. DUH!

Edited November 3, 2004 by Jeanway

[Jim Phaserman 0]

TUH you say there is no education program that can fix families? Well thats far off the ball, this is why in my school we have "Career and Life Management" classes that teaches how to do a budget for a family and the proper way to look after a child, this has had great success with families who have finished high school and went out to have children of their own.

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The Issue I see with this, Nemesis, is that it should be PARENTS teaching those skills. My DAD taught me how to Look after kids. and I got some on the job training, too, helping my brother out. I really think that there are some things that Parents should be teaching, not schools. this is one of them.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

I don't personal consider myself a true-blood libertarian;

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That's OK, we're making progress with you.