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gul_nodrog

Kai Opaka

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We just watched The Emissary last night and I was reminded just how much I really liked and respected Kai Opaka. Even though we find out later that she was a "collaborator" of sorts, I still think she was the best hope for Bajor to recover in a more healthy fashion.

 

After they lost Opaka to the Gamma Quadrant, I really felt bad for Bajor. Kai Winn was just horrible ... what a kick in the teeth for the Bajorans to unload the Cardassians only to have that witch ascend to the head of their religion. :laugh: Bareil would have been o.k., but I think that there could have been many interesting episodes about a kinder, gentler Kai and I could have done without every single episode of Kai Winn or any story arc about her.

 

Man, I hated that broad. (And I'm an old broad myself, so I can call her that!)

Edited by gul_nodrog

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I agree, I've made no secret of my disliking of Kai Winn's character. They needed a "bad guy" on Bajor and picked her but I think it would have been better if they had picked a political leader as the bad guy and left Kai Opaka in place to help fight the bad guy with Sisko.

 

The only parts of the final arc in season 7 that I really son't like are the Winn parts.

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I couldn't stand Kai Winn either, although I suppose without her it would have been impossible for Dukat to get to the fire-caves. And without that, Sisko could never have eliminated that threat.

 

Also, I think it would've been interresting to see Kai Opaka return somehow. Even if it was just to see Winn publicly humiliated.

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Also, I think it would've been interresting to see Kai Opaka return somehow. Even if it was just to see Winn publicly humiliated.

273245[/snapback]

 

Now that would have been sweeeeet. :)

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I think that had Opaka not got stuck in the Gamma Quadrant, Winn would have figured a way to get Opaka out of her way to become Kai... I wouldn't put it past her to have made arrangements to have her murdered. Winn was just as ruthless or even more so than the Cardassians. Although I hated Winn, I did love to see Louise Fletcher (or Nurse Ratched) on DS9!!!

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Although I hated Winn, I did love to see Louise Fletcher (or Nurse Ratched) on DS9!!![/color][/b]

273778[/snapback]

 

That's what my husband calls my mom. When he's sick she won't let up on him until he takes ALL his medicine.

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I was never a very big fan of Winn. I agree that they should have left Opaka on Bajor and another character created to be the bad guy.

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Winn wasn't ment to be liked, which is why she was a great character. As for Opaka, I too liked her, but I think Winn was ment to be the Anti-Kira of sorts. She was ment to show how currupted people can get when you speak of Religion and Opaka might have just got in the way. I wish they would have kept her around, but it did wonders to the storyline of the series and Winn as a character when Opaka ment to find her destiny on that planet.

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I was just surprised that there was not even a mention of a ship ever going back to check on Opaka on the planet. I understand that she cannot leave but I would think that at least now and then they would check up on her or deliver supplies, and then a mention of the Kai in a meeting or something on the station,

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Well, I do not have such strong feelings about Winn. But I do think she added an element of realism. There were two big centers of power on Bajor, the church and the government. People who want power put on whatever cloak they need to wear to gain it. The Christian Bible long ago warned of wolves in the fold. It is the same here.

 

I think the writers intended to have Kai Winn all along, but in order to not be seen as attacking people of faith, had Kai Opaka and Vedic Berial ( I hope I am spelling these names right) as devoted, true leaders in the faith, before Kai Winn was allowed to ascend to power. In the end she was revealed to be not a true follower, but the viewers of DS9 did not misconstrue the Bajoran faith as being twisted and corrupt because their leader was.

 

I also admired how Kira handled Kai Winn. On the one hand Kira was not fooled by Winn's treachery and schemes. On the other hand she did her best to show respect to the Kai, to the person holding the office. Of course some times Kira did have to openly defy her, but many times she held her tongue, and worked with her as best she could.

 

I think many people in real life who work with those in authority know all their warts, yet forebear for the sake of the common good. I liked this aspect of Kira's character. I saw Winn as representing those of weak character and huge ambition who seek power, which I think our world is repelete with.

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I agree there MJ. I really liked the episode, was it "Strange Bedfellows", where Winn wanted to change, and Kira told her, okay, then step down, and Winn could not comprehend why that was needed. It showed an element of Winn's desire to not be such a witch, but still not want to let go of power. You know you're corrupt, but you're addicted to the corruption.

 

Winn had to be there for the drama. That's what made DS9 so strong. If Opaka had always been there, then Bajor would have been a wonderful idea of the good things religion can do to a planet, but with Winn, you had the negative ideas of theocratic reign. The Bajorans, as a whole, had a good thing going with religion, but could not imagine the Kai being corrupt.

 

Opaka would have been side by side with Sisko as the Emisarry through all 7 seasons. There would not have been conflict, no story, even with the Dominion story lines they had. Bajor's development as a "character" in DS9 was based on how it dealt with Winn, and was based on Winn herself.

 

Same with Barial, or however it's spelled. He would have been a second Opaka. Sure, we were all rooting for him at the end of season 1, but he would have given nothing to the story. His loss during the election helped develop that character, and showed that the good guys can't always win in the end, which is exactly what Deep Space Nine was all about, the oposite almost of Roddenberry's original theme.

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I don't think Kai Opaka was a great character but she wasn't bad either. I'd have kept her over Kai Winn anyday.

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Winn was also essential to the Prophets' plans for eliminating the threat from the Pah'Wraiths. She started out devout, but got jaded when the Prophets never once spoke to her. I believe that if they had, she could not have fulfilled the task they had for her (betraying them). It also could not have been done by a secular leader --as the Kosto-Mojin was for the Kai's eyes only.

 

It was just horribly ironic that she was fooled by Dukat. Couldn't she hear his voice?

Edited by SilyGreenMonkey

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I have a small question about Kai names. Is Opaka her family name or her personal name? Like if Nerys would become Kai would she be called Kai Kira or Kai Nerys?

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She'd be Kai Kira. I'm basing this on the fact Kai Winn's actual name is Winn Adami. So it is by last name.

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I was just surprised that there was not even a mention of a ship ever going back to check on Opaka on the planet.  I understand that she cannot leave but I would think that at least now and then they would check up on her or deliver supplies, and then a mention of the Kai in a meeting or something on the station,

278472[/snapback]

 

I agree. I mean, it's not like she died or anything. She just ended up stranded on that planet. And i'm sure that had they given it enough research there would have been a way to get her back to civilisation! They just gave up.

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Since this topic has re-appeared, it reminded me about how disappointed I was that no one went back to check on Kai Opaka. I wanted to see how much progress she made with getting the two warring factions to stop fighting. I bet she succeeded!

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I agree there MJ. I really liked the episode, was it "Strange Bedfellows", where Winn wanted to change, and Kira told her, okay, then step down, and Winn could not comprehend why that was needed. It showed an element of Winn's desire to not be such a witch, but still not want to let go of power. You know you're corrupt, but you're addicted to the corruption.

 

Winn had to be there for the drama. That's what made DS9 so strong. If Opaka had always been there, then Bajor would have been a wonderful idea of the good things religion can do to a planet, but with Winn, you had the negative ideas of theocratic reign. The Bajorans, as a whole, had a good thing going with religion, but could not imagine the Kai being corrupt.

 

Opaka would have been side by side with Sisko as the Emisarry through all 7 seasons. There would not have been conflict, no story, even with the Dominion story lines they had. Bajor's development as a "character" in DS9 was based on how it dealt with Winn, and was based on Winn herself.

 

Bingo! You are right on target.

 

Winn_and_Neela.jpg

 

Winn was a villian that really added a lot to DS9 where almost every character had flaws including Winn and no one was simple or one dimensional or as pure as the driven snow.

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Since this topic has re-appeared, it reminded me about how disappointed I was that no one went back to check on Kai Opaka. I wanted to see how much progress she made with getting the two warring factions to stop fighting. I bet she succeeded!

 

Would you want to take that chance? Remember, she died on impact in the first place. I wouldn't want to take that chance myself. One zip-zap and I'm stuck in their own little hell myself. Pass.

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After they had 5 or 6 years to study the situation they may have been able to get around the situation and find a way to bring her home without her dying.

 

I'd really liked to have seen her have more of a role on the show, I liked her as Kai and it could have really made it interesting to see the struggle that could come up between Opaka and Winn.

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I think eventually Kai Opaka would have grown weary, left the order, started drinking and open a bar and strip club on Bajor with Garak as a partner, since he wasn't going anywhere for a while anyway. Rebellion against the strict tenets of her religion would have turned into one hell of a party girl.

 

 

(I'm in a weird mood today so the above is just a "Scene We'd Like To See" that exists only in my own mind, with a tip of the old hat to Mad Magazine.)

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