Same Gender schools - good or bad?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I've heard of same gender classrooms but apparently the number of same gender public schools is growing.

 

Heres a link to the article I just read:CNN

 

I know same gender schools raises the "separate but equal" issue for gender. But the truth is males and females are different -

 

I think same gender schools are a good idea.

 

Particularly like this quote

Single-sex schools also reduce the pressure to preen for boyfriends or girlfriends, Sax said.

 

"Single-sex schools, in ways that matter, are much more like the real world. Because unless you are a model or an actress, how you look is not the most important thing in your life," Sax said

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

I used to go to a school where we had same gender classes from K-6. Worked fine. No problems whatsoever.

[RikerChick 5]

I don't like the idea at all. In the work place there's no separation of men from women (usually), so you need to learn how to interact and work with members of the opposite sex effectively.

[hangon 3]

:unsure: all boys schools eawwww no way,i think we would be going backwards if there was only those types of schools but thats IMO some ppl might like the idea but not me,i dont think i would have been able to handle no girls at my school when i was younger

[Theunicornhunter 2]

RC makes a good point about men and women needing to work together and boys and girls do need to interact

 

But I'm not sure school is the only option for that. Schools are supposed to teach children critical skills such as math. Some schools have experimented with having same gender classes for specific subjects rather than separate schools. (This may be a better option for the social factor)

 

As the article points out - many very successful persons went to same gender schools. And there are other places to learn social skills rather than school (homeschoolers do it). [begin off topic rant] In fact I worry too much pressure is put on schools to teach socialization, values etc and such skills that are the responsibility of the family that academic subjects suffers.[end rant]

 

Boys and girls learn best in different environments - that leaves you with two options.

1. Put them both in the same environment and let one be disadvantaged.

2. Offer both a class tailored to their specific learning needs.

 

**gender differences aren't the only factor affecting different learning styles - cultural factors also influence learning style - requiring teachers to use a variety of teaching techniques. However, it appears the difference in how boys and girls learn (from the article) is a matter of more than techniques but rather classroom structure and environment.

 

I would need to see more research to know just how real (or strong) these learning differences are. However, girls typically trail in math and science and boys in verbal and communication skills (I think the gap is narrowing a bit). But I think the question comes down to "do you enforce sameness in the name of fairness - which ultimately means one group will be disadvantaged"

 

This reminds me of an experiment one school district tried - they took some "at risk" black youth(young males from broken homes etc.) and gave them special classes with successful black men from the community as role models/ mentors. While the programs showed success in reducing delinquency rates among the young men it was challenged as unconstitutional and I believe discontinued.

 

I am interested in what some of our teachers have to say? MJ?

 

Some questions for thought:

Would you want a learning environment disadvantageous to yourself in order to have the other gender around? OR

 

Would you be comfortable with a learning environment disadvantageous to the "other gender" as long as you could have them around?

 

Can students that are used to being educated separately by gender integrate in the business world - if the business world favors one learning style over the other?

Edited August 28, 2004 by TheUnicornHunter

[Valeris 2]

I must say that I am a teenage girl, so I probably will not be thinking clear on this question. I would never want to go to an all-girls school. Almost all my best friends have been guys and I just do not get along as well with girls my age. As for the different styles of learning, I do not really believe in that. Everyone learns differently, no matter their gender. If anything, I might want a seperate school for every child! But that, of course, is impossible. I like my mixed-gender school, a lot, and I think that so long as one is focused on their studies and not the opposite gender, everything will work out fine.

[Jeanway 0]

I did attend all girls school for 4 years. B) I think I do have trouble with males. I just treat them like aliens. B) Sorry guys. The girl can't help it. Yes, it does inhibit your social skills with the opposite sex. I my case anyway. There was still alot of preening going on, only we did it for different reasons. We'd try to top each other. For our European members, we didn't try to "Kill" each other, B) to top each other means to "out do " each other here in the U.S.

Edited August 28, 2004 by Jeanway

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Are social skills and dating the responsibility of public schools? What about math, science, english etc. I'm guessing if the focus were really on learning there wouldn't be such a concern about having the opposite sex around.

 

Jeanway, is it possible that other factors affect your relationship with men that have nothing to do with an all girls school? I went to regular schools but that had no effect on my relationships with men.

 

I know when I was in graduate school I felt a lot of the guys wasted our time because they monopolized class time with pretty lame discussion because they liked the sound of their voices.

Click For Spoiler

we had a professor that gave out several negative class participation grades one semester - it was very quiet the next year B)

 

Valeris, speaks as a teenager. I'm looking at life from the other side. I would want my children to learn math, science, critical reasoning, time management etc.

 

I still think the issue RC raised about developing interpersonal skills as far as team work, negotiation etc - not dating but navigating life - is important. But I believe those skills can be learned elsewhere.

[Jeanway 0]

U.H., I think saying it didn't affect your relationships with men might be a bit presumptuous. In order to know that for sure you'd had to have two identical, perhaps twin, people go to different schools, one co-ed the other not. All other factors would have to be the same. I've been out of High school for almost 9 years but I did go to co-ed colleges. I did see alot of differences in behaviours between the two very different situations. I think during my teen years if I had more contacts with males I would see them differently than I do now. But I may be wrong, I'm open to that possibility. But when I am around males I am very uncomfortable. I haven't heard any other girls or women in here say that. I think I am woefully inept when it comes to male/female relationships. B)

[DutchDebbie 0]

i voted No way i dont think same gender schools are a good idea,being with girls all day has its plus points but it would get very boring with out guys B)

Edited August 28, 2004 by DutchDebbie

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Jeanway, you implied it was going to a girls school that caused you to have problems with men. Did you have a clone that went to a coed school? B)

 

My point was only that going to a coed school doesn't make you perfect in that area and I know a lot of people that went to coed schools that still have issues.

 

But when I am around males I am very uncomfortable. I haven't heard any other girls or women in here say that.

May be more of an issue of people not talking about it.

 

I think I am woefully inept when it comes to male/female relationships

Most poeple are to some extent. Question - anybody here on this board have a history of nothing but perfect relationships??

 

And again my point was - are dating skills the purpose of school? And it concerns me that is the issue everyone is addressing. I'd rather my kids learn academics and get their social skills elsewhere.

 

Because the real secret to happy relationships is to be happy with yourself. And a good education is a good step towards that.

 

So would you rather learn chemistry, math, grammar etc in a classroom conducive to learning or in a threatening or challenging environment - that's the question.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

Isn't it hard enough to get laid at school as it is without keeping boys and girls separated?

[RikerChick 5]

Question -  anybody here on this board have a history of nothing but perfect relationships??

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Romantic relationships? Yes actually, but that's a different thread. B)

 

I do agree that there are other ways to learn social skills. I was homeschooled and I'm a very social person. I'm not sure I'm even qualified to be talking about this since I haven't seen a public classroom since 3rd grade. B) I think parents, and society in general, need to teach kids to focus on their studies instead of the social aspect, especially dating (which kids are doing WAY too young IMO anyway), but I don't think separating them is the answer. By keeping them together they learn to deal with pressures from the opposite sex which are also a part of everyday life outside of school. It's nice to think of school as just a place to learn, but it's not realistic. It's also a training ground for life, all aspects of it. Once you're out of school there's no social training classes, you get thrown into the real world. Hopefully school will have given you and education and the skills needed to deal with the other aspects of life.

 

Isn't it hard enough to get laid at school as it is without keeping boys and girls separated?

 

Comments like that could make me vote for seperation.

[DixonHill1989 0]

what would I do without girls...study...HECK NO B)

Edited August 28, 2004 by DixonHill1989

[BlueCrystal 0]

At first when I read this I thought it was funny. An all boy or all girl school would be great for lesbians and gays but a real drag for the straight kids. In thinking about it probably would have saved some of my friends parents a lot of money and time. My sister was a clothes horse as it was and to imagine her going to school and her demand for clothing would of sent my parents to the poor house.

 

In thinking back on the kids I knew that went to public school it seemed that being educated in a boy/girl setting caused problems.

[Rivendells_king 0]

I hate the idea!!

 

no its time for my rambling if you get confused just ask don't bash!

 

I just don't like the idea at all for some reason. I have aalwaysbbelievedthat if you are kept away from something and than all of a sudden are allowed to use it or be by it than you uusuallyabuse it or else happen to go insane. I think this is the same for education. People are ssupposedto learn how to get along and adapt to ccertainsituations and ppredicaments This happens in public schools were people are iintergraded Certian races and religous groups do ccertainstuff that people might find distracting the educational process. Why don't we decided to go back and sperate schools like we did during the segergation era. I know you probally think its racist but I do belive that separating genders is also racist too. How do you know that maybe person in the goverment is sexist and decideds to give more money to the all girls schools.

 

I do kinda get what you are saying I do get distracted by the opposite sex and so do they but they need to be able to adapt to been with the other sex more often to get ready to be in the work place. Whats going to be next segergated malls airplanes because certain males watch women in the malls in a sick way or hit on the girls who hand out peanuts.

 

Sorry I just had to open my mouth.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I just want to respond to a couple of remarks. First of all, if you read the article - there is actual evidence that girls and boys do better academically if they are separated. This isn't about sex, dating etc - it's about classroom environment and teaching methods - it's a lot more complicated than this article suggests but there are differences. A lot of very successful people have gone all the way through college in same sex environments - it was just limited to the wealthy - and these people have for the most part done quite well. There are always dances, sporting events etc for the social skills.

 

So, I'm curious - if you think the sexes should stay together in the classroom:

 

1. Whose learning style should you choose and who should be the gender disadvantaged? You can't combine them.

 

2. Are you okay with being in less than an optimal learning environment as long you can have the opposite sex around? OR

 

3. Are you okay with the opposite sex being in a less than optimal environment as long you get to have them around.

 

4. What sort of classroom experiences do you think help you learn to deal with the opposite sex in a workplace relationship? Most classrooms I've been in - grade school thru graduate school have been sitting at a desk and taking notes. When I did have projects I usually ended up working with a female classmate.

[Jeanway 0]

Isn't it hard enough to get laid at school as it is without keeping boys and girls separated?

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Sounds just like you "IT". B) What's wrong with you anyway?? Don't you have just the tiniest bit of "TACT"??? You are too crude to live, honestly. This thread isn't about Sex. I see what you mean U.H. I've been off for a while.

B) Cousin!

[Odie 0]

I think it will depend on the individual if they can better learn in same gender school or in co-ed school. There some that many benefit from it, because there won't have the same pressure trying attack the opposite sex.

[ARMS 0]

NO WAY!

 

I went to a mixed school and i turned out normal as expected, just like everyone who i know who went to a mixed school. I know guys from single sex schools, and they are either gay (whatever floats ya boat) or afraid of women!! I know MANY girls from an all girl school called Prenton High which is very well know as "Prenton Pram Pushers" because all the girls who attend are brain dead giggly immature whores.

[Airies 0]

I have to agree with RC. Children need to interact with all kinds of different social atmospheres..ie...gender, race etc...Would a all girls school only have all women teachers? Or vise-versa. How would that affect a sexual discrimination law if a woman wanted to teach at a all boy school or vise-versa?

[Rivendells_king 0]

I think that the class rooms should stay the way they are right now TUH. But anyways dumb question I did not read the article because useally when I go to another website other than STF.net and Yahoo my computer gets a virus and I dont want to get kicked of the internet. But anyways was the conclusion based on tests that were taken the next day or else the class takes notes and than they review and than they take the test.

 

I am just wondering because people happen to study when they are at home, I know of more females than males that study at home so It might not be the learning eviorment at school but also at home.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

One important question hasn't been asked yet.

 

Many same-sex schools are private, often religious-based. I'm not commenting on whether this is good or bad but if this is the only same-sex option in your location then how can you filter out the "problems" of coed schools without also filtering out something else?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Well, the schools in the article are public schools - so religion is not an issue. And the private religious schools in my area are coed but I've heard of same sex schools religious schools but a lot of those are also boarding schools and that's a whole other issue.

 

When the article talks about learning environment - it addresses how the teacher instructs the class - according to the research boys do better in a more formal environment - putting the boys on the spot and calling them by last names etc.

 

Whereas the girls seem to do better in an environment that is less formal or aggressive. Ironically, I would probably be more inclined to teach in a more formal manner. Problems arise when teachers teach to one group and not the other. I would hate for any of my children to be in that sort of environment. There may be other ways to resolve that issue other than separate schools.

 

RK, I've read about this before and the ideas were taken from long term review of standardized test scores and performance over time.

 

Again, I guess I never realized how much people depend on school for developing social skills which really should, IMO, be developed elsewhere.

 

Only time will tell whether these kids do better or not.

[ILIKESEVEN 0]

hhhmmm same genderschools nahhh bad idea

[ARMS 0]

The current poll statistics show consensus against single sex schools (glad), but i'm surprised no one found my statement contravertial! We used to argue all night...

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Arms, of course your statement was controversial but I think everyone realized it was intended to be.

 

This isn't about starting an argument - this is about whether boy and girl children learn in better in different environments. That is IMO, the only relevant question.

 

If the answer is yes, the separate schools or at least separate classes for certain subjects should be a consideration - otherwise one gender will suffer.

 

If the answer is no then separate schools are unnecessary.

 

As for raising same gender relationship issues - my entire point was school should be about learning not about having relationships - there are plenty of other outlets for that.

[RikerChick 5]

This isn't about starting an argument - this is about whether boy and girl children learn in better in different environments.  That is IMO, the only relevant question.

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Well IMO there's more too it than that. First I'd say no anyway. It's not that boys learn better in one environment and girls in another. Each person learns differently, it's not a gender issue. My sister and I learn completely differently. She thrived in home school because she learns best in a less structured environment. I did not because I need a lot more structured environment or I just completely lose interest. We're both female, we both learn differently. And no matter what I believe gender relationship issues come into play at school. Learning is not limited to reading,writing and arithmetic, it encompasses all areas of life.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I've been in both situations in life and I see merits to both. You can't just dismiss same gender situations out of hand because there is value in a group of only boys or only girls being together without the pressures that go along with "does she like me" or "am I pretty enough for him" or whatever the pressure of male-female relationships may bring at whatever age the people in question are.

 

In my situation, it was for a short time frame only and was after I was an adult but I believe it was a good experience. It was when I was in Basic Training and my company was male only. In fact if the female company was marching past us to chow or to train or whatever we were forbidden to even look at them. Get caught looking and you wind up "in the dirt" "beating your face" which was the way the Drill Sergeants told us to do push ups and trust me, "Get in the dirt and beat your face!" were 8 little words you did not want to hear! lol

 

Anyway, my point is that both situations have pluses and minuses. I feel that some gender specific situations are good and needed in life though. I have known women that have a very hard time getting along with other women. My grandmother was like this. She could get along fine with men but with other women there always seemed to be a clash. And I have friends that are the same way. So I think there needs to be a time where boys and girls are alone with just their gender to give them time to bond and learn how to get along with members of their own gender.

[TheDaxSymbiont 0]

Well, I didn't end up reading all the replies...I would like to say that it's because I didn't have the time, but I'd be lying...I'm just kinda lazy! With that said, sorry if I'm repeating what someone else already mentioned....

 

I went to an all-girls high school for 5 years of my life (9-oac/13), and I thought that it was wonderful.

 

All the single-sex schools up here (Toronto) tend to be much smaller than others, both public and catholic. So, the ratio of teacher to students is certainly much better and of course, you get much more attention. Almost all of our teachers were female, it was wonderful having such great role models! All of my science and math teachers were stong successful women! Only when I entered University did I realize how few females continued on with physics and mathematics. I probably wouldn't be in the program that I am today (Astronomy/Physics and mathematics) if I felt discouraged from taking male-dominated courses in earlier years.

Also, I think that teenagers tend to get distracted from learning when members of the opposite sex are in the same environment.

 

Today, most of my friends are male (mainly due to the fact that there are so few females in my classes) and I have wonderful relationships with all of them. I really don't think that attending a single-sex school alters how you interact with the opposite sex. It seems to me that elementary school is the time of one's life in which we learn to build our social skills and interact with others. Segregating the sexes in high school allows the kids to focus on what they're there to do, learn!

Besides, there was always time for boys after school! ^_^

 

When I have kids, all of them will be going to single-sex high school, with uniforms too!