T'Pol's future.

[Trinneergirl 0]

THIS TOPIC CONTAINS SPOILERS. IF YOU WISH TO AVOID SPOILERS, PLEASE DO NOT READ.

 

 

There's a story here in the UK about a bus driver who lost control of his vehicle and smashed into a house. So far half a dozen people have died and several more are critically ill. He claims the brakes failed, though others claim he was driving too fast anyway.

 

If it is proven that he was, even partly, to blame for the crash, then he will lose his job and never drive a bus again. If convicted of this he will face imprisonment. What is certain though, is that, if it is discovered he was under the influence of any kind of drug, he will be facing manslaughter charges.

 

I'd find that fair. In the future tho...

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

T'Pol we know has taken Trellium-D in order to enhance her emotions. In doing so she has by her own will become addicted. Instead of seeking help, she has continued with the drug. This has led to her poor desicion making and rabbit-in-the-headlights brakkdown that cost the deaths of a fifth of the Enterprise crew.

 

So, I propose that she should be, at the very least, removed from the command chain. She could remain as a civilian Head of Science, but I can see no way that she can be trusted again.

 

But, according to the inside rumours...Archer is never told of T'Pol's addiction, Starfleet does nothing and she will remain as first officer as if nothing had happened. I like Blalock and I think she's done a lot with T'Pol. I don't really want the character to leave. But First Officer T'Pol after her professional incompetence lost so many lives? No.

 

 

 

I find this insulting to my intelligence. If the outcome of the storyline is indeed like the rumours say then I will be disgusted.

 

What do you think?

Edited April 15, 2004 by Trinneergirl

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

I don't like that she could get away with it; but, at least it makes the characters a little more interesting. One of the things that grated on me about TNG was how everyone always had halos over their heads, no ghosts in their pasts and walked around with this holier-than-thou attitude. I think Ent is exploring new territory here, and I applaud them for that, even if I don't like a character because of it.

 

They can still deal with it by having her confide in Trip or somebody else.

[Tina 0]

As this will probally not happen(or will the pull a tasha yar on her? But it does sound like a TNG plot agin B) )

 

I would not worry

[Trinneergirl 0]

They can still deal with it by having her confide in Trip or somebody else.

Yeah, Red Shirt Volunteer, I like the fact that Ent's crew have failings. But if all those deaths were at least partly T'Pol's fault, and I think they were, then Trip is incompetent in not reporting it, as is Phlox.

 

And if she were to be made civilian Head of Science then it would deal with the repercussions of the problem. She would have to face having to ask instead of order, she'd have to become used to being out of the command chain and sometimes out of the loop, there would be some crew who resented her for 'causing' the deaths. It would have far greater impact then just letting it all go back to how it was, regardless of the deaths caused. She would have to face the hard truths of where her poor decisions led her. Indeed, led them all.

 

Who's to say what would have happened if T'Pol had taken a different course of action? What we can say is that, under the influence, she took a course of inaction and incomptence that cost lives. Anyone covering that up, for whatever good intention, would be as guilty for the deaths. Accessory after the fact.

 

This is very different to Cogenitor. What Trip did wasn't wrong, just how he went about it. He didn't by his actions put the Cogenitor's life at stake, s/he chose to take his/her own life rather than fight for freedom. What T'Pol did in Azati Prime definitely did put lives at stake. And lives were lost. She wasn't dealing from morality, compassion or misinformation, she was blinded to the right course of action through her addiction. She's guilty of multiple manslaughter. If that's swept under the carpet this is not a future of humanity I want to see come true. B)

[Ozymandous 0]

If she were forgiven for all things because of her addiction then I don't see this being much different than how things are today. People routinely get away with all sorts of things because they were a victim. T'Pol is not the problem, it's all the 'drugs' fault! She can't *help* if she was addicted, she can't *help* that she cost the lives of so many crew members.

 

I think they will sweep it under the rug and act like she caught a disease instead of making poor decisions, since our society seems to value 'victim status' more than forcing people to accept responsibility for their actions.

[fenriz275 0]

This has me thinking that perhaps T'Pol won't be around for the 4th season of Enterprise.

[Jeanway 0]

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm missing something here. I did miss a couple episodes. When did she become addicted to Trellium D? B)

[Klingonmike 0]

I think they are talking about an episode that has not aired yet. I'm not going to judge the T'Pol thing until I actually see it on the show.

[Goose 0]

Stardate:214236.7

 

 

If she were forgiven for all things because of her addiction then I don't see this being much different than how things are today. People routinely get away with all sorts of things because they were a victim. T'Pol is not the problem, it's all the 'drugs' fault! She can't *help* if she was addicted, she can't *help* that she cost the lives of so many crew members.

 

Yeh exactly I think it is another example of how Star Trek is showing an example of todays issues.

[Stelfan 0]

I don't think the rumours are anything more then just rumours, I will wait for the episodes to air.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

The thing is, she was exposed to Trellium D in the course of her job and experienced the effects due to that. If not for that, she wouldn't have become addicted. If a police officer were exposed to a drug nowadays and got hooked through their normal course of work, as T'Pol did, then later found him/herself unable to stop, he/she'd have a lawsuit against his/her employer just as much as the employer would have a case against him/her.

 

I think this is a bit more complicated than just condemning T'Pol.

 

Hi Trinneergirl,

 

Yes, Trip would also be responsible if T'Pol told him something, but she might do it througha mind-meld (assuming she gets some training latter). It could go wrong and Trip might not know exactly what he's seeing/feeling. It might just be a way for her to share her feelings with him.

 

Phlox would have to respect patient's right to privacy as well as any danger to the crew. If he were able to fix the problem in a relatively quick amount of time, she might not need to be informed on.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

According to the spoilers T'Pol didn't become addicted because of her initial exposure. Rather, she enjoyed the emotional high it gave and subsequently sought out more of the chemical to get more of that emotional high. That is a wilfull choice - not being a victim. This is the creature who looks with arrogant condescenion upon mere humans - who boasts of Vulcan superiority - who claims to be a scientist. She's not a 16 year old human being duped by a dealer.

 

I think it is an insult that she isn't even going to get a slap on the wrist for her irresponsible behavior. If a member of your family was killed in an unnecessary battle because his/her CO was voluntarily incompetent would you really be pleading for mercy?

 

As chief medical officer it would actually be Phlox's duty to advise the Captain if anyone was unfit for duty.

 

And yes, it disappoints me with Trip that he would cover-up something like that. That means the next time she kills someone he will be just as guilty - this is not looking like a good plot development

[Trinneergirl 0]

The UnicornHunter I agree entirely. T'Pol is to blame for what happened because of her CHOICE to continue taking the drug to get the emotional high. That descision, from a trained Vulcan mind, cost lives, because when the chips were down she collapsed. I don't mind how this thing is handled in the show, but for all the world it sounds as if it isn't handled! Everyone just ignores it. They didn't take her out of the chain of command when she got Pan'ar syndrome even though she doesn't have vulcan aids, she has something more akin to an acquired Alzheimers and since she is degenerating, there will come a point when her decision making is compromised. Now she's gone further and got an addiction which made her so incomptent that it lost lives.

 

It would be hard to respect any member of the crew who covered up for her.

[fenriz275 0]

I think we're going to see a major change in the crew next season. I think that they may be setting us up for T'Pol leaving the crew. There's no way she could continue to function on the Enterprise given what's happened and her mental state, regardless if she can be treated.

[mj 7]

It's also a poor plot twist because it suggests that Vulcans can't handle being on a human ship after all. T'pol was breaking new ground for Vulcan/human cooperation.

This will be another setback.

[Klingonmike 0]

I hope T'Pol does not leave the show, she is one of my favorite characters. As for the drug addiction I have nothing to say about it since I have not seen any episodes that suggest she is addicted to any drugs.

[livlonganprospe 0]

The UnicornHunter  I agree entirely.  T'Pol is to blame for what happened because of her CHOICE to continue taking the drug to get the emotional high.  That descision, from a trained Vulcan mind, cost lives, because when the chips were down she collapsed.  I don't mind how this thing is handled in the show, but for all the world it sounds as if it isn't handled!  Everyone just ignores it.  They didn't take her out of the chain of command when she got Pan'ar syndrome even though she doesn't have vulcan aids, she has something more akin to an acquired Alzheimers and since she is degenerating, there will come a point when her decision making is compromised.  Now she's gone further and got an addiction which made her so incomptent that it lost lives.

 

It would be hard to respect any member of the crew who covered up for her.

I totally agree!

[Nemesis 0]

Ok those of you who are blaming T'pol need to learn more about addiction. You can tell that by craving that "high" is the initial effects of the addiction. This stuff causes all means of common sense to go down the toilet.

 

This also exposes that anyone is capable of becoming addicted to hard drugs if given the exposure and opportunity.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

T'Pol was getting emotional highs from Trellium D. We do not know if it effected her judgement, so why is everyone accusing her of being guilty for the deaths of 15 people? <_<

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

Well I think it is a good plot line as it deals with problems that we face today i.e. drugs.

[Klingonmike 0]

What makes you think 15 people would not have died if she were not under the influence? They were out numbered and out gunned, everyone on Enterprise could have been sober as judges and still would have had the crap kicked out of them resulting in deaths.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

When it became obvious Archer had failed - they should have gotten out of there - retreated to safety instead of just sitting there like a stationary target. Trip tried to tell this to T'Pol but she was incapable of rational thought - by her own choosing.

 

This is the creature that has been looking down her self righteous little nose at all the incompetent humans for three years. She made a conscious choice to use drugs to experience emotions (which she could have done simply by not meditating as we learned in a prior episode). For pete's sake - she's the science officer. If anyone in the world should know better - she should.

 

I've never been a T'Pol fan but I was starting to like her a little better - but as far as I'm concerned she's beyond despicable at this point and if anything will turn me off on this show - the fact they are portraying her as a victim will do it.

 

Nemesis Posted on Apr 22 2004, 07:04 AM

  Ok those of you who are blaming T'pol need to learn more about addiction. You can tell that by craving that "high" is the initial effects of the addiction. This stuff causes all means of common sense to go down the toilet.

 

This also exposes that anyone is capable of becoming addicted to hard drugs if given the exposure and opportunity. 

That's the whole point - you don't take drugs because you know they destroy your ability to function and you know that no one is immune to addiction. Unless you are drugged without your knowledge - the first time you take a drink or try a new drug you are willingly accepting all of the consequences of your behavior.

 

If you have a job that doesn't require competence that is one thing but if you accept the responsibility of being First Officer on a starship you should honor your commitment.

 

She should be in the brig and she doesn't even get a slap on the wrist. That really annoys me.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

TUH, T'Pol was taking Trellium D via injections and told Dr. Phlox that she was not aware of being addicted till she almost got herself killed attempting to get more Trellium D. As soon as she realised she had an addiction, she fessed up to Dr. Phlox and sought treatment. Does that sound like some raving druggie lunatic to you? :) As for not being a victim, she is - she's a victim of the Delphic Expanse.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

But it she seemed even emotional before entering the expanse...

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Does that sound like some raving druggie lunatic to you? :)

Yes, she sounds like a druggie. She took workers off of necessary projects with a fake cover story to try to clear a path to the storage bay where the trellium was.

As for not being a victim, she is - she's a victim of the Delphic Expanse

The Delphic Expanse did not make her choose to take drugs.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Does that sound like some raving druggie lunatic to you? :)

Yes, she sounds like a druggie. She took workers off of necessary projects with a fake cover story to try to clear a path to the storage bay where the trellium was.

If you're going to quote me, please do a complete quote. When she realised she was addicted, she seeked help from the ship's doctor. That is not the behavior of a druggie.

 

As for not being a victim, she is - she's a victim of the Delphic Expanse

The Delphic Expanse did not make her choose to take drugs.

No, but the Delphic Expanse did expose her to emotions which is an overwelming experrience for a Vulcan and a catalyst for deterriorating self control. The Delphic Expanse is the catalyst for her addiction to Trellium D, under normal circumstanse she would not have become addicted. Oh, and another thing. She wasn't taking drugs, she was taking a single substance which allowed her to explore emotion and interract easier with the crew. At the time, she did not realise she had become addicted. She did not realise this untill she risked her life for the substance, and then she sought medical assistance.

Edited April 23, 2004 by Captain Jean-Luc Picard

[Theunicornhunter 2]

..If you're going to quote me, please do a complete quote.

There's no reason to waste space

  When she realised she was addicted, she seeked help from the ship's doctor.  That is not the behavior of a druggie. :)

Yes, addicts seek medical help

.... but the Delphic Expanse did expose her to emotions which is an overwelming experrience for a Vulcan and a catalyst for deterriorating self control.  The Delphic Expanse is the catalyst for her addiction to Trellium D, under normal circumstanse she would not have become addicted.

actually Vulcans are familiar with emotions - they spend their early years learning to control them. Besides she'd already experimented once with emotions - which is how she contracted P'Nar syndrome. And if she wanted to experience emotions again all she had to do was stop meditating.

 

Oh, and another thing.  She wasn't taking drugs, she was taking a single substance 

a rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

which allowed her to explore emotion and interract easier with the crew.

a secondary consequence - not the reason for her choice.

 

At the time, she did not realise she had become addicted.  She did not realise this untill she risked her life for the substance, and then she sought medical assistance

It is irrelevant whether she subsequently became addicted. She chose to take a "substance" which she knew would alter her abilities. She was the science officer for pete's sake. If nothing else this proves she's not a very good scientist. I'm merely an inferior human but I know that drugs can impair your functioning even if you're not addicted.

 

CJLP, I'm not going to change my mind anymore than you are so no point in pursuing it.

[Klingonmike 0]

As much as I disagree with UH on this I'll just leave it at that because I know I'll never change her mind about T'Pol.

But when I read this:"This is the creature that has been looking down her self righteous little nose at all the incompetent humans for three years." I thought of Rush Limbaugh. Giving people a hard time for years about things like drug addiction then it turns out he is a druggie himself! Sorry to get off topic like that but that was the first thing to go thru my mind. And they let him have his radio show back!!

[Theunicornhunter 2]

KM, I know you want to drop it but I am curious - if an officer in the US military were to take a drug that impaired his/her ability to make command decisions - would you want to serve in that command? In fact, in the US military wouldn't an officer most likely be court martialed for doing what T'Pol did?

 

My question is why the double standard?

[Klingonmike 0]

KM, I know you want to drop it but I am curious - if an officer in the US military were to take a drug that impaired his/her ability to make command decisions - would you want to serve in that command?  In fact, in the US military wouldn't an officer most likely be court martialed for doing what T'Pol did? 

 

My question is why the double standard?

T'Pol is a scientist, she decided to study this human thing called emotions that all her life she held back. The Trillium showed her a way to expierence that not knowing she would be addicted. as soon as she relized she had a problem with addiction she went to the doctor.

In the Military if you report yourself to command that you have a drug problem they will not Court Marshell you, they will put you in a treatment program. Now if you are responsible for the deaths of people under your command there could be some issues that go to court.

 

I do not blame T'Pol for the deaths of any crewman killed while attacked by the Xindi, to me those people would have died if, say Archer were in charge or Trip.

 

We discover she has a problem and she herself is already taking the steps to rid herself of the addiction. It seems you want to punish her severly for her addiction. I don't see where punishing her will accomplish anything, she needs to be helped and supported even more than ever now to get thru the problem.

 

Here is a true story, when I was in the Army I became addicted to Crystal Meth, and I drove a 52 ton armored tank that alot of times was fully loaded with weapons and shells. I relized one day in a moment of clarity that this was not a good thing so I turned myself in to the C.O. (Commanding Officer) I went thru a rehab program and 6 months later I was back driving the tank, of course I began to be tested for drugs on a regular basis but I stayed clean and finished my service. I see the same happening to T'Pol, send her back to her job, just keep a closer eye on her for awhile until your satisfied she is well and back to normal.