VaBeachGuy

I can't stay away from it, I love the whole premis of the song lol

Yes, and for anyone that isn't sure how to pronounce his last name it's pronounced Crochey. He was killed in a plane crash in 1973. He was only 30 years old.

We have now passed 50,000 postings! Great going everyone!

We did it in less then 5 months

100,000 here we come!

THe Ready Room is a military term as well. There is no escaping the fact that Starfleet is military.

How many people PMd Luvin1stdegree to remind her to set her VCR like the board Calendar asked?

True, but it seems the Military's perpose is to defend the nation where as Starfleet's purpose is to explore the unkown, help alien cultures develop, defend the Federation against alien threats, colonize planets, and so forth.  So, you guys trying to tell me that a military does all that?  It sure doesn't seem like it.

If it wasn't for the military we would have never put a man on the moon or had the technology to find the Titanic. You may not see all of the scientific things that the military does is because most of it is classified or it's just not newsworthy. In the Navy there are a few groups of people that are dedicated to underwater exploration. For example when you watch a show on the History channel that is about a underwater wreck who do you think is doing the diving for them? It's a group of Navy divers that's what they are trained to do.

Exactly, it was U.S. Navy divers that went down to the USS Monitor and brought up artifacts to be preserved and studied.

Another point that is from both DS9 and TNG:

O'brien from ST.COM

2346 – Enlisted as a non-commissioned officer in Starfleet.

What does the word Enlisted mean?

Lets look at Websters:

1 a : to secure the support and aid of : employ in advancing an interest <enlist all the available resources> <enlist the community in an experiment> b : to win over : ATTRACT <trying to enlist my sympathies>

2 : to engage (a person) for duty in the armed forces

intransitive senses

1 : to enroll oneself in the armed forces

2 : to participate heartily (as in a cause, drive, or crusade)

- en·list·ee /-"lis-'tE, -'lis-tE/ noun

- en·list·ment /-'lis(t)-m&nt/ noun

All these terms that Starfleet uses seems to point to the Military.

True, but it seems the Military's perpose is to defend the nation where as Starfleet's purpose is to explore the unkown, help alien cultures develop, defend the Federation against alien threats, colonize planets, and so forth.  So, you guys trying to tell me that a military does all that?  It sure doesn't seem like it.

That is because you only see the side of the military that the media wants us to see, because those are the aspects that bring in ratings for them. The military has scientific divisions, they perform humanitarian aid to other countries (civilizations), they are called upon to aid communities in times of crisis from natural disasters, and they aid in insuring the safety of refugees as well as defending our borders from other countries.

 

As for exploring the unknown, who do you think has completed most of the undersea exploration that has been completed?

And the exploration of the moon. A few civilians went there but the majority of the moonwalkers were Military.

I don't think Starfleet is a full military, but only functions as one when needed.  Besides, in the military, everyone carries guns.  In Starfleet, how often do they carry phasers aside from alien attacks and security teams?  When I look at today's military, I see trained killers who's job is to protect the nation.  When I look at Starfleet, I see engineers, scientists, and so on, who's job is to explore the galaxy.  That's why I don't think of Starfleet as being military, not fully anyway.

 

Besides, did the Enterprise-D feel like a military ship?  Since when did military ships have families aboard?

Ever hear of the Army Corps Of Engineers? How about the explorers that went to the moon, like Colonel Buzz Aldrin or Cpt. Pete Conrad. Everything in Starfleet has it's counterpart in the United States military.

As far as this goes:

Besides, in the military, everyone carries guns.

I only carried a weapon about 15% to 20% of the time I was in the Army. Not everyone carries a weapon all the time in the military. In fact not everyone carries a weapon at all. There are chaplains that never carry weapons (I don't say gun because an M-16 isn't a gun, it's an assault rifle). How about the cooks and doctors? Do they have weapons all the time? No, they don't.

You're bringing assumptions about what you think the military is into what you want to think Starfleet is. You have to have a basic understanding of just what the military is and what all of their functions are.

How many families are there on Enterprise NX-01? How many families are there on NCC-1701? How many families are there on Defiant? In the Army, I used to drive 2 miles from my barracks to a friends house (on Fort Hood) and have dinner with him, his wife and his daughter. So families are with the military.

Try to set aside your disdain of the military and your dislike of weapons to assess this. The fact of Starfleet being military has now been established in 3 of the 5 series. Enterprise, TOS and DS9. I know there are also references in TNG but it will take a little time to dig them out.

Well, this is what I think happens:

 

Starfleet starts off as a space program in ENT, then due to the Romulan War, absorbs Earth's military, then grows to absorb more Earth programs, eventually becoming this massive, multi-purpose space program.  Make sense?

Multi-purposed yes, but today's military is also multi-purposed. We know that by the time of TNG, DS9 and VOY Starfleet is a military. In fact we know it is Military in the time of TOS and there is a reference that leads me to the conclusion that they are military in the days of Archer.

[*]In TOS there is an episode entitled Court Martial where Kirk is put on trial for the supposed death of a crew member.

[*]In Enterprise episode First Flight, Archer is telling T'Pol the story of how he and Robinson stole the ship. When the story comes to a conclusion Archer says "We managed to avoid a Court Martial but we they grounded us for 3 months."

Well, what is a court martial?

From Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary:

court martial noun [C] plural court martials

FORMAL courts martial

(a trial in) a military court for members of the armed forces

From the UltraLingua English Dictionary

1. court-martial [v.] 1. To condemn in a military court. , 2. To subject to trial by court-martial. 

 

2. court-martial [n.] 1. A military court to try serious breaches of martial law. , 2. A trial by court martial.

 

3. special court-martial [n.] A court-martial to try soldiers for offences less serious that than those committed in action; consists of at least three officers.

 

4. drumhead court-martial [n.] A military court convened to hear urgent charges of offences committed in action.

You may not want to call it "military" but the evidence suggests that it is military. I now believe that the quote from The Expanse is a MIS-worded error by the writers.

I think one of the others pegged me as Bashir also, maybe I should have been a doctor... or maybe I should have been genetically enhanced?

Most women I know(in town here) are rather, shall we say, disgusted with this song....but not me, it is funny, IMO.

I love this song... and just for the record...

Click for Spoiler:

We ain't wrong, We ain't sorry and It's probably gonna happen agin'

Here's a better of what it looks like:

Click for Spoiler:

This, of course isn't mine but you can see it better here.

Ok, this is pretty well "stone cold country" but I think it's funny (and true). So ladies, if you ever wanted to know the truth about men here you go.

I just got back from getting my new license plates for my cars. I think the plates are pretty cool and wanted to share the design with you all.

This seemed to be pretty close, it surprised me lol

Myers-Briggs would say that you are an ENFP (Extrovert, Intuitive, Feeler, Perceiver). In Star Trek language, you share a basic personality configuration with James Kirk and Julian Bashir.

Click for Spoiler:

I think Bajor was considered the "frontier" simply because it was on the outer edges of Federation space and on the outer reaches of the founding Federation members space.

Farpoint would be named Farpoint simply because it was at the outer reaches of human exploration at that time. If I remember correctly humankind had not been beyond that point before so that would make it the farthest point out that we had been. Thus "Farpoint Station".

From whay I remember (and confirmed on ST.COM), she dropped out of the Academy in her second year. So she would hold no official rank other then maybe Cadet and even at that it wouldn't be official because she resigned (or was kicked out).

The Bio on ST.COM does have this to say about her rank though:

File Update: Delta Quadrant Addendum

Report by Capt. Kathryn Janeway, U.S.S. Voyager

 

I have never regretted my decision to assign Torres the brevet rank of lieutenant or make her my chief engineer.

"Brevet" was a term I had never seen before so I looked it up on Ask.com and here's what I got on it:

A commission giving a military officer higher nominal rank than that for which pay is received

So it would seam that she was granted the position of lieutenant at some point, though she may have been considered a lower rank at some point.

I think Starfleet is a multi-purpose space program.  While it can function as a military, you wouldn't call it a military.  That's why I think they made referrence to Starfleet not being military.

Could be, but we've never heard of a separate military before now though.

I think Starfleet was considered military all along. This statement in The Expanse Pt. 1 was either a mistake or simply that Starfleet has not been designated as a military force yet. Surely if there was a Military aside from Starfleet we would have heard about in the Dominion or Klingon wars.

In Deep Space Nine episodes Homefront and Paradise Lost (Season 4)the following references are made to indicate that Starfleet is Military.

• In the President's office Sisko and Admiral Leyton are discussing the threat of the changelings to Earth's security. The President questions the need for blood screenings and phaser sweeps. Sisko says "They've proven very effective on Deep Space Nine". The President says "I'm sure they have, but I hope you'll keep in mind that this is Earth. Not a military installation."
   
   
   
   
   
  
• Later in the episode when Mr. Sisko refuses to take a blood screening, Cpt. Sisko explains to him that he has to take it because "We've got 'civilian' families living on starships and at Starfleet installations all over the Federation..." "...if we test the family members of one Starfleet officer, we must test them all!" Why call them "civilian" family members if the Starfleet members themselves are civilian?
   
   
   
   
  
• He goes on later to speak with the President again and mentions "armed troops" when referring to Starfleet personnel in the streets of Earth. He also speaks about the Jem'hadar and how they will not "limit themselves to Military targets" making the inference that a "Military Target" would be a Starfleet base, soldier or facility of some kind.
   
   
   
   
  
• Sisko goes on to accuse Admiral Leyton of trying to "seize control of earth and place it under Military Rule."
   
   
   
   
  
• In the end Sisko asks Leyton if he thinks that the other Federation members will sit by and allow Earth to be taken over by a Military dictatorship.
  

Clearly by the time of TNG, DS9 and Voyager the Federation is a Military Force.

Below is the Starfleet charter, in it you will see many references to "Starfleet Military"

http://ussforce.topcities.com/starfleet_charter.htm

This is quoted from the website above:

Article I: Establishment/Purpose

 

Section 1:  There is hereby established a Starfleet interplanetary military force, to be under the direct cognizance of the Federation Council and President. If there is no current Federation Council, Starfleet will assume that role until one is created.

O'Briens rank actually has another grey pip at the top of the chevrons.

 

I know all military ranks (except for Coast Guard) and a insignia like that would make him a Senior Chief Petty Officer, but theres no way to prover my belief.

 

As for him being referred to Chief of Operations, in the Navy and Coast Guard, rank is usually differnt from the differnt departments.

 

Also, O'Brien's actuall rank was referred to twice. I don't remember the episodes names, but I do know the situation.

 

The first was on TNG on the episode after the Best of Both Worlds. Worf's adoptive father said it was nice to see another Chief Petty Officer when he saw O'Brien.

 

The Second was when Bashir and O'Brien were captured by the Jem'Hadar that were trying to break their addiction to the white. He was referred to as a Chief Petty Officer.

 

I hope this helps a little.

 

Here's a link for Star Trek enlisted and NCO ranks. http://www.tangofleet.org/ranks/ranks3.htm

This one ss for Sr. Chief Petty Officer:

Starfleet isn't Military, this was established in "The Expanse".  My guess is she will sport either civillian clothes or a Starfleet uniform.  She can't join Starfleet though as Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet.

It was indicated that Starfleet isn't military, but I don't know that this is a proper distinction for them to have made. Everything about Starfleet in all 5 series has pointed to a military structure. Never has there been mention of any other "military" and it's Starfleet that fights Earth's wars. This could be an oversight by the writers similar to the one in Relics with Scotty and Geordi beaming through the shields.

In the first episode it was my feeling that Trip should have been command after Archer was hurt. T'Pol was just there as an adviser and observer. I thought it was improper for her to take command. That said, I think the Vulcans will allow her to take part in the mission in hindsight and her resignation will be forgotten about. Things will remain status quo.

Well, what if you want to have the shows in chronological order?

 

Enterprise

Star Trek

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Star Trek: Voyager

 

OR

 

Star Trek: Enterprise

Star Trek

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Star Trek: Voyager

 

See how the 2nd is conflicting looking?  Since it's set before Star Trek, then Star Trek wouldn't be part of the title.  Make sense?

In the "History Books" Enterprise is before Star Trek, yes. But in reality Star Trek was before Enterprise. You have to look at it from a stand point of business and from a stand point of the reality in which the show is being watched.

Besides without Star Trek there would be no Enterprise. Take Enterprise away and Star Trek can stand alone. Take away Star Trek and Enterprise has no history.

How about Star Wars? Episode IV comes well before Episode I but in Episode I it's still Star Wars.

Being a perquel shouldn't take the franchise name out of it. The show loses some of it's identity that way. I wonder how many people didn't see the first episode simply because they didn't know hat it was Star Trek.

It's too late now, but I for one wouldn't be upset if TPTB changed the title to include Star Trek. In fact I think they should.

What's with the White Rabbits?

The title Star Trek is the entire franchise, the cash cow. Take that out and you take away a lot of the show/movie's identity. Like was already said, I think that's a bit of the problem with Enterprise's ratings.

Star Trek

Star Trek: The Next Generation

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Star Trek: Voyager

Star Trek: Enterprise

It just looks and sounds better with Star Trek in it.

That was a big reason in the web address I registered when I did. People can identify it with a specific genre of show. And Star Trek is it's own genre now.

If it was just Deep Space Nine then a lot of TNG or VOY fans might not come. It's limited to just Deep Space Nine, or so the name implies anyway. Add Star Trek to the title and now it is part of the Franchise.

Blink of an Eye, because by just being in orbit Voyager shaped a planets entire evolution over many centuries. It was a really cool episode.