VaBeachGuy

Hi all, just thought I would drop in... I haven't been here in years it seems like. :)

Hey there! How's it going? Always great to see absent friends come back for a visit.

We can use the experience of our parents, grandparents, ect, to help solve out problems of today. and our experience will help out next generation.

But Next Generation ended in the early '90s, and they only had Trill in one episode - and it didn't even have spots.

That was because he was the last of the Trills that came from the Trill "Augment" failure. They never were able to make "augments" but a side effect of the attempt was that some of them "lost their spots". Through multiple generations though, the spots game back....

Ok, so I'm reaching there... but it worked for the Klingons...

I had downloaded all of TAS a long time ago but just recently got the official DVD's a few weeks ago. I haven't had a chance to re-watch any of them yet but I'll do that one weekend soon.

Yeah, TNG's first 2 seasons were pretty painful!

 

DS9 did have a surprisingly good start, but really, there are only a handful of early eps (Duet immediately comes to mind) that can stand up to the greatness of season 4-7.

 

I personally thought VOY had the best first season, a few gems in 2 and 3, and became amazing in 4-7.

 

I'm probably in a minority here, but I thought ENT had a fairly strong first season. Well, I liked it anyway.

In general, not counting TOS, all of the other series didn't really get "going" until about their 3rd season. Maybe 4th for Voyager. With Voyager, I just never really liked the Kazon episodes. So the early seasons were sort of ruined for me whenever the Kazon showed up (for the most part).

When TNG first aired, I watched every episode the day it aired up until May of 1988. At that point I took a short break until late 1990 (or so) to go into the Army. I may have seen a few episodes here and there but in general I didn't get much time for TV. About the only show I can fully remember seeing while I was in Texas is Quantum Leap.

All of that said, some of those early TNG's were pretty bad but I didn't mind. It was new Star Trek and that's all I cared about.

As for you being in the minority about Enterprise, I don't know if you are or not but I was blown away by season 1 Enterprise when it first aired. Back then I was working nights and didn't have a TiVo so I didn't see them seem them "first run" on TV, but I was downloading them every week off the internet. So I never missed an episode.

I just finished re-watching all 4 seasons of Enterprise and it was a really good series, I'm left feeling ripped off (again) at not getting a full 7 seasons.

lol Yeah, sometimes though you have to do that to remind the "closet Trekkies" that just because they're "in the closet" doesn't mean that they aren't a Trekkie lol

I've seen all of them from all of the series including TAS. I've recently been watching the remastered Season 1 TOS episodes on NetFlix, I find myself saying "Oh my god, look at that!" when I see a lot of the new graphics. Very cool!

Always liked this song (ignore the video):

Regarding "alternate timeline":

 

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There is only one timeline - if it is changed by a person from the future traveling back to the past - then yes, it is a different or "alternate" timeline from what orginally happened. But it isn't like an alternate universe that you can switch between the two timelines - they don't co-exist. The new timeline is "the" timeline. That's why the temporal prime directive is so important - of course now there is no guarantee Star Fleet will ever have a temporal prime directive.

 

I understand it was a necessary plot device to give the writers the freedom to do whatever they wanted with future scripts. But the more it sinks in - the more disappointing it is.

 

 

Nor do I think most of have a firm enough grasp of temporal mechanics to say - can this be fixed by preventing Nero from ever going back in time. I mean wouldn't that rewrite every thing that happened in this movie?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090517/ap_en_ce/us_box_office

 

AP Entertainment Writer Jake Coyle, Ap Entertainment Writer – Sun May 17, 3:30 pm ET

NEW YORK – "Angels & Demons" took the box office from "Star Trek" by earning $48 million in its first weekend of release.

 

The haul was far less than the earlier Dan Brown adaptation "The Da Vinci Code" — which earned $77.1 million when in opened in 2006 — but still enough to topple the popular "Star Trek," according to studio estimates Sunday.

 

In its second weekend, Paramount Pictures' "Star Trek" took in $43 million, a strong number after its $75.2 million opening last weekend, excluding its Thursday midnight screenings. The cumulative total for J.J. Abram's reboot of the sci-fi franchise is $147.6 million.

 

Sony's "Angels & Demons" reunites Tom Hanks and director Ron Howard for the sequel to "The Da Vinci Code." It opened without the benefit of the buzz and controversy that propelled "The Da Vinci Code" to a $753 million worldwide total.

 

Overseas business was again strong for "Angels & Demons," which earned $104.3 million internationally. Rory Bruer, president of worldwide distribution for Sony, said the studio expects the film will eventually take in half a billion altogether in theatrical release.

 

"That chemistry (of Hanks and Howard) worked incredibly well with 'Da Vinci' and it looks like it's absolutely headed in that same vein, certainly on a lesser scale," said Bruer. "We never expected anything to the phenomenon of `Da Vinci.'"

 

Like "The Da Vinci Code," reviews were not illustrious for "Angels & Demons," but they were mostly better. Bruer called Brown's action-packed best-seller "a far more cinematic story" than "Da Vinci." In it, Hanks again plays Harvard symbolist Robert Langdon who's trying to prevent a series of murders at the Vatican.

 

"Sony positioned it well," said Paul Dergarabedian, box-office analyst for Hollywood.com. "They didn't try to say, `This is going to be "The Da Vinci Code."' It was actually quite the contrary. They tried to say this was not `Da Vinci Code,' that it was a different kind of movie."

 

"Angels & Demons" was the only new wide-release film of the weekend. Coming in third was "X-Men Originals: Wolverine," which earned $14.8 million in its third week, bringing its total to $151.1 million. The prequel to the "X-Men" franchise, starring Hugh Jackman as the mutant with metal claws, had a step drop-off in its second week.

 

On the whole, it was another robust weekend of business at movie theaters, which have been drawing large crowds throughout the recession. Dergarabedian pegs the year-to-date box office at a 16 percent increase over last year.

 

"We're headed toward a record breaking summer," said Dergarabedian. "If you've got a blockbuster in the pipeline, you're very happy about all the strength of the box office right now. Momentum is key in this business."

 

That's good news for the two blockbusters opening next weekend: "Night at the Museum: Battle of the Smithsonian" and "Terminator Salvation."

 

Estimated ticket sales for Friday through Sunday at U.S. and Canadian theaters, according to Hollywood.com. Final figures will be released Monday.

 

1. "Angels & Demons," $48 million.

 

2. "Star Trek," $43 million.

 

3. "X-Men Origins: Wolverine," $14.8 million.

 

4. "Ghosts of Girlfriends Past," $6.9 million.

 

5. "Obsessed," $4.6 million.

 

6. "17 Again," $3.4 million.

 

7. "Monsters vs. Aliens," $3 million.

 

8. "The Soloist," $2.4 million.

 

9. "Next Day Air," $2.2 million.

 

10. "Earth," $1.7 million.

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As for the timeline - I hate these quandaries but now that they "know" what will happen - can't they simply rescue Romulus earlier and more or less prevent the entire thing from happening or now that they have changed the timeline maybe the future won't happen at all - such as what if Spock doesn't live to be the old Spock.

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They could prevent the destruction of Romulus in the alternate timeline, but it can not be prevented in the prime timeline.

 

Also, with the Spocks, the young Spock could be killed but the old Spock wouldn't die since they aren't really the same person.

I myself don't accept "alternate timelines" as reality, I know it's a theory and there are smart people that study and contemplate all those things but I don't accept it. There was once a lot of 'smart' people that had a theory that the Earth was flat and was the center of the universe where the sun and stars orbited the Earth. Didn't make it true though simply because "educated people" had the theory.

If they (the people in 'charge' of the franchise) make another movie and if they want to 'honor' Star Trek history then they'll fall back on that history and will take the actions that have always been taken in Star Trek history.

Since I don't believe that they will want to 'honor" that history I don't think that they'll do what has always been done in Trek history.

Except

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Its possible Tuvok does exist but in another form. Remember, the Mirror Universe Vic was a flesh-and-blood human and Porthos was a rotweiler.

 

It isn't an alternate universe - it's a new timeline - basically the future we know has been erased..

As for Paramounts opinion being the only one that matters... I greatly disagree with you on that one. Paramount could say "You know what? We need to bring Yoda in to talk to Kirk and teach him to use the Force. That's our opinion and it's really the only one that matters!"

 

Now, if that happened what do you suppose would happen?

George Lucas would sue Paramount.

No he wouldn't, in the hypothetical question he'd have agreed to the 'melding' of the 2 franchises.

The Federation straddles the Alpha-Beta border and the majority of the Klingon and Romulan Empires are in the Beta Quadrant. According to non-canon sources for the most part.

I've seen maps of the Star Trek Galaxy that puts Romulus and Kronos in the Beta Quadrant but I can't think of any episode (or movie) that supports this. I could be forgetting something of course, but in DS9 all of the references during the Dominion War was that the Romulans, Klingons and the Federation were fighting for the survival of the Alpha Quadrant. Of course that's not to say that the Romulans and Klingons wouldn't fight to save the Alpha Quadrant but I'd think if they were actually from the Beta Quadrant that some reference to that would be made somewhere.

The only canon reference to the Beta Quadrant that I can think of off the top of my head is from Voyager's "Message in a Bottle" episode where the Doctor is sent to a Federation ship which is in the Beta Quadrant. There may be other references but that's the only one I can think of.

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I fully believe that this exact story could have been written in such a way that issues of canon would not have been a problem. For instance, if they wanted the movie to be set in 2258 then why have Chekov in the movie? People might have questioned the fact of him missing, but the answer would have satisfied everyone. He was there because he was only 13. That would have given a new movie the opportunity to introduce him.

 

Other issues could have been dealt with the same way as well. I understand that they wanted to attract a "new audience" and that's great. I agree that new fans are needed. But is there honestly anyone here that believes that they couldn't have accomplished this AND stayed true to canon? Was the canon location Delta-Vega and Chekov's age the 2 key things that made non fans stay away for all these years?

 

They're all minor things, they can be overlooked but how hard would it have been to do it right and keep the hard core fans happy while at the same time changing things up a little to attract a new audience? The argument seems to be this: "Stop caring and stop being so hard core, they HAD to get new blood into the fandom!" Yes, new blood was needed. But do you have to turn you back on the fans that made the movie possible in order to get new blood?

 

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I know what you mean, but do these two glitches make it impossible to enjoy this movie? Does that fact that Khan recognizes Chekov despite never meeting him ruin Wrath of Khan? And these are comparable situations because Nick Meyer knew they'd never met face to face and kept that in anyway. They're deliberate errors for the sake of the story. So yes, they are annoyances, but minor ones and they can easily be explained away. Memory Alpha has already done so:

 

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Delta_Vega_(Vulcan_system)

 

Not ideal, I'll admit but it does work. And c'mon, two little deliberate changes hardly represent turning their backs on the fans who made this movie possible. There is more than enough for the fans in there already to compensate for these minor changes.

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And if you ask me, that is well worth stepping on the toes of a vocal minority. And I think Paramount would agree and their opinion is really the only one that matters.

Keep in mind (again) that I liked the movie a whole lot (Alterego), I've seen it more than once and am not putting it down in any way. It's a very good movie and I want it to be successful. I even said in another thread that a TV series with this cast might prove to be very interesting. But this being a board dedicated to discussing all aspects of Star Trek I think that a discussion of the movies shortcomings is proper.

I just wish they had been more careful or mindful when writing the script. I have to believe that if Ira Behr had been involved in this production that there wouldn't have been any of these little issues.

I've been re-watching Enterprise for a couple of months (the DVD's). I again find myself with basically the same opinion as when it was in first run. Season 3 was entertaining, good storyline but I think the whole Xindi arc just lasted too long. It could have been done, I believe in 6 to 10 episodes. 12 at the most. Looking back now, we were only given 4 seasons and I look at season 3 as time wasted in some ways.

There was such a fertile field of possibilities there with Shran and the Andorians, so many good stories that could have been told building up an alliance between Earth and Andoria and then Earth being the bridge of friendship for Andoria and Vulcan leading to the Federation.

My biggest disappointment with Enterprise is how little of Shran there is in it. There were such great possibilities there. I still think it would have been an awesome thing for Andoria to be upset at Earth having a Vulcan officer on Enterprise and not an Andorian and requesting that they have a representative assigned to the ship... Shran of course. Then he'd have been a regular and on every episode.

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According to the Countdown tie-in comic, the star in question would absorb energy from whatever it destroyed, which when then fuel further destruction.

How about a Cadet going from Cadet to Captain of the Federation flagship? That's like a Cadet from West Point graduating and becoming a Brigade commander of a frontline combat uint.

Actually, that is pretty close to how General Custer got his rank. His West Point class was accelerated because the Union badly needed officers to fight the Civil War. He graduated dead last in his clsss. Due to clerical error he was promoted from 1LT to Brigader General without going through the ranks inbetween. (Back then Brigader Generals commanded brigades. Today Colonels command brigades.) He was 23.

 

George Pickett graduated dead last in his class as well and also made General. West Point actually keeps statistics on who is likely to eventually make General based on class ranking. The Cadets finishing either in the top 5 or bottom 5 of their class are statistically more likely to eventually make General than any other segment, but there is no statistical difference between the top 5 and bottom 5. IThe smart ones are apparently just as likely to make General as the dumb ones.

You can't really fall back on that as the 'norm' though. Back then it was a matter of who you know and how well connected you were with the people that controlled such things. Promotions General were given out as a reward in many cases, more like being an appointment. Not like it is today with the Generals raising through the ranks.

In Custers case he was promoted to Brigadier General of volunteers, when the war was over he was promoted to Major General of the volunteers but was reduced in rank to Captain in the Regular Army (Captain being O3 in the Army while in Starfleet it would be O5 which is the same as a Colonel in the Army).

In the Example above (Custer vs. Alternate Kirk) for it to equate, Custer would have had to have been placed in command of the Army of the Potomac replacing General George Meade (which if you know anything about Gen. George Meade might not have been a bad thing lol).

I just wish they had written it (Star Trek XI) a little differently in regard to a few aspects.

Listening to the thunder and the pouring rain on the roof.

Most music snobs who hate 80s hair metal are a little more lenient towards Guns 'N' Roses and Van Halen because they were by far more talented than the rest of them. A few even give that credence towards KISS as well, and some don't consider one, two, or all three of those as hair metal for that reason. Whatever. I enjoy it all.

 

VABG--I would think, that as a former serviceman, you'd like Winger's other big hit, "Miles Away." During Operation Desert Storm, that was a HUGE song with the Armed Forces and their families. Local stations would even edit in messages from soldiers and families to each other that ran during the guitar break of that song.

Seventeen is probably the only song of theirs I've ever heard. By the time of Desert Shield I was working 16 to 20 hours a day helping to prepae my battalion for deployment so I wasn't listening to the radio much and becasue of injuries sustained in training I didn't actually deploy myself, I retired. So when Desert Storm came along I was back home and the only music I was listening to was country.

"Dream Weaver" by Gary Wright

I used that for one of the videos in our Video Vault.

After watching a commercial I'm now stuck in the 70's:

Interesting that you say "Domestic" there when it is for both the U.S. and Canada but a few years ago you were ready to throw a live grenade at me when I said that Canadians were Americans...

 

Calling it "domestic" is not my terminology but the terminology of the mostly US-based movie industry. And I would still be ready to throw a live grenade at you for saying that.

Hey, can't we all just try to get along and agree that residents of Canada and the USA are all NORTH Americans?

lol That's what I'm trying to get her to admit... come to think of it I've been trying to get her to admit it for 6 years now... lol

Interesting that you say "Domestic" there when it is for both the U.S. and Canada but a few years ago you were ready to throw a live grenade at me when I said that Canadians were Americans...

 

Calling it "domestic" is not my terminology but the terminology of the mostly US-based movie industry. And I would still be ready to throw a live grenade at you for saying that.

lol But answer this, is Canada in America?

I'm no fan of the canon problems that have been raised by the new movie, I wish they had been more careful on a few things but I'd actually be interested to see this crew in a weekly series. I'd much rather they do it in the 'real' Star Trek timeline though. They could still have new stories and shape the characters the way they'd want to in order to attract new fans and still stay within canon. Using the "alternate timeline" excuse is just a cop out in my view. A "catch all" to cover themselves for a lack of respect/knowledge/research/caring (or whatever else it might be) about the history of Trek.