Never Surrender!

[Jim Phaserman 0]

to ed, and bysty, and Nemesis, who have all been going back and forth with me in debates, you probably wonder "Why in the hell doesn't this guy give up?" the answer is because in each of the debates I've gone on with you guys about, I've been defending my own personal beliefs. conceding a point to me is like saying "Okay, you win, I will give up a part of myself because you don't agree with my opinion"

[removed 0]

to ed, and bysty, and Nemesis, who have all been going back and forth with me in debates, you probably wonder "Why in the hell doesn't this guy give up?" the answer is because in each of the debates I've gone on with you guys about, I've been defending my own personal beliefs. conceding a point to me is like saying "Okay, you win, I will give up a part of myself because you don't agree with my opinion"

Lol. That is the same with me. I can not just throw my beliefs aside just so that I don't have to debate anymore. Lol. I'm normally not very active in Risa, but as you could see Jim, a couple of those threads got me going. :lol:

[He Who Shall Not Be Named 2]

I'm willing to concede some points when I am clearly wrong, but you had better do a damn good job of convincing me of it.

[Nemesis 0]

to ed, and bysty, and Nemesis, who have all been going back and forth with me in debates, you probably wonder "Why in the hell doesn't this guy give up?" the answer is because in each of the debates I've gone on with you guys about, I've been defending my own personal beliefs. conceding a point to me is like saying "Okay, you win, I will give up a part of myself because you don't agree with my opinion"

Same goes for me :lol: most people you debate with feel the same way, the ones who bend easily are the ones who are really not informed. I can say this though, no matter our stances on the war we agree on many of the more important views on human rights, so I guess thats all that really matters

[t'mir 0]

to ed, and bysty, and Nemesis, who have all been going back and forth with me in debates, you probably wonder "Why in the hell doesn't this guy give up?" the answer is because in each of the debates I've gone on with you guys about, I've been defending my own personal beliefs. conceding a point to me is like saying "Okay, you win, I will give up a part of myself because you don't agree with my opinion"

How 'bout me, Jim? We had a few debates going at... that other place. :lol: Just a word, though... it takes a strong person to hold fast to their side in a debate, but sometimes, it takes a heck of a stronger person to admit that their wrong. It's not saying "I'm giving up a part of myself to say that you're right," it's more so saying "You have brought up another point of view that I never considered. You are right; I am wrong in this". Sometimes you will earn ppls respect more from saying you were wrong then for being stubborn even when you are wrong. See? Anyways, that's just me... I'm probably starting a new debate as we speak!!!

[Jim Phaserman 0]

See, T'mir, in most of the arguments, it involves things that I have always believed. E.I., the marragie debates. you could hold a gun to my head, tell me to change my opinion on something like Gay Marraige, and I'd tell you you better be ready to put a slug in my head.

[shadowfigment 0]

There is nothing wrong with sticking with what you believe and arguing your point. Especially when you know that you are right!

[xenexian 2]

These are all classic debate tactics and I'm glad to see the world of debate, point and counterpoint upheld here at startrekfans, but what I would like to know is what do any of you do when you are wrong? Not so much in a belief but in a point of contention that doesn't undermine your belief but maybe causes you to re-arrange the foundation of that belief a little bit? Not everyone can be right all the time and during your entire lifetime views on may subjects can be open to change when presented with arguments that could be, in some cases, stronger and more valid then what you previously believed. An example could be, and I may be reaching a bit here, is the idea of what is the center of the universe? How many hundreds of years did the church hold to the idea that the earth was the center and even went so far as to persecute those that didn't see it that way, even when presented with proof of the falicy of their belief? I'm not saying that anyone is wrong any more than saying that everyone is right. Belief in an idea or anything is a matter of faith and reamins on a personal level but is your belief or opinion, perhaps that's a better word, that resolute that you refuse to change it or even consider changing it when confronted with a conflicting viewpoint that could cause one to restructure their belief system? Is changing a viewpoint considered a sign of weakness or does one consider that possibility an opportunity to grow and learn and in the process, become stronger for it? The world and everyone on it is in a constant rate of change. There were some ideas and beliefs that were considered right even a hundred years ago but today no longer hold water due to societal changes which caused a change in how people perceived things. Less than 80 years ago, is was believed that women had no right to vote. Does anyone hold to that belief now? Just some ideas to thrash around here. When does holding on to an debated belief become pointless when confronted with an equally and perhaps stronger counterpoint?

[Sgt. Phaserman 0]

if I have a peice of information wrong, I will concede that. as for my beliefs, one's beliefs I don't think can ever really be categorised in something so simple as "right" and "wrong". leave those labels for facts, not opinions, beliefs, or points of view.

[t'mir 0]

See, T'mir, in most of the arguments, it involves things that I have always believed. E.I., the marragie debates. you could hold a gun to my head, tell me to change my opinion on something like Gay Marraige, and I'd tell you you better be ready to put a slug in my head.

Ok Jim, I see. I understand now, and I totally agree. I never concede in arguments that go against my moral standards, either.

 

 

~T

[Sgt. Phaserman 0]

as a US Marine Corps DI, I see alot of people come into the Marines, but very rarely do I see someone who has such conviction with everything he believes in as I see in Jim. I wish EVERYONE who joined the military, not just the Marines, had his conviction. if they did, the United States would be unstoppable.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Sarge has a point. most Americans, not just those of us in the Armed Forces, really don't give a rats' a** anymore, and it pisses me off!

[Rivendells_king 0]

I thought the U.S. was already unstopable because of our technology. But what ever what dose a special ed kid know

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I thought everyone felt that way about their opinions.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Not everyone does, Unicorn. it seems more and more americans are just too lazy to think for themselves and let the media make up their minds. hence the opposition to the war in Iraq.

[removed 0]

Not everyone does, Unicorn. it seems more and more americans are just too lazy to think for themselves and let the media make up their minds. hence the opposition to the war in Iraq.

I dislike those type of people. Sure I oppose Iraq, but it has nothing to do with the media. It has to do with my ideals as a peace-loving, Canadian citizen.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Without getting into another Iraq debate, if I only watched the news, I am sure my view migth be different. but I know what it's REALLY like over there, and I have formed my opinion based on the facts, not a news source's POV

[removed 0]

I don't debate what it really is there, I just have always had troubles with the purpouse of the war.

 

But yes. This debate has been done and over with. Lol.

[Julie 0]

Not everyone does, Unicorn. it seems more and more americans are just too lazy to think for themselves and let the media make up their minds. hence the opposition to the war in Iraq.

Good point, Jim.

 

 

I am not a violent kind of person, but I do feel strongly enough about my country that I chose to spend 4 years of my life in the US Navy. I was a Hospital Corpsmen. I felt strongly enough about my country to defy my parents' will to go to college first BEFORE joining the military. However, I did graduate college, and I am now an RN.