Hostile Vulcans

[ensign_beedrill 0]

This was inspired by the "Is Spock the first Vulcan in Starfleet?" thread over in the TOS board.

 

I know a lot of people have voiced concern about how the Vulcans in Enterprise are being portrayed as arrogant and condescending. I even had problem with that. It just doesn't seem to fit their character, from what we've seen of them in the series depicting eras further down the timeline.

 

But this particular thread about Spock got me thinking. Whether it be a Star Trek fact, or just something widely accepted as true among fans, and for the purposes of this topic, Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. Why, after so long a partnership, would a Vulcan choose to join Starfleet? In nearly a hundred years between the Enterprise era and the Star Trek era would there be no Vulcans joining Starfleet?

 

It doesn't make sense. Unless you look at the Vulcans on Enterprise. They clearly look down upon Starfleet. It's not openly stated, but it is heavily implied. They see it as an immature leap for Humans. They certainly didn't approve of the whole Enterprise mission, and every time we see them, there is some hint of how it's too early for the Humans to be out in space.

 

It would follow, then, that it is only logical for Vulcans not to join Starfleet, since they disapprove of it so much. Why would they join a venture they see as immature and inappropriate?

 

After thinking about this for a while, I don't have much of a problem with the way Vulcans are being portrayed in Enterprise. I don't know if the creators intended to set it up this way, but it does all fall into place and it all makes sense. This is just more proof that the creators do know what they're doing, and they're not trying to decimate the timeline... like many Enterprise doomsayers claim.

 

Opinions, anyone?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Your suggestion makes sense. Still I liked Mr. Spock and I can't stand the ENT Vulcans. Now Sarek was obviously arrogant but Spock never seemed condescending - he merely stated his opinion. But we didn't ever see the first meeting with Spock and Kirk as we did with Archer and T'Pol.

 

And I'm still not sure that part of the ENT situation isn't simply that Blalock can't act and thinks snobby is the same as emotionally controlled.

Edited October 6, 2005 by mj

[A l t e r E g o 9]

My opinoion is you are 100% correct.

 

It has become perfectly clear SOME Vulcan's have, instead of just accepting the Vulcan High Council decrees as being the only logical constants in the Universe, begun to see their society as having becoming arrogant and decided to do some fieldwork on their own. Now we now T'Pol was the first to see this and lay the ground work for Vulcan 'radicals' to emerge in growing numbers. Imo.

 

ENTERPRISE ROCKS!

[v_seven 0]

My opinoion is you are 100% correct.

 

It has become perfectly clear SOME Vulcan's have, instead of just accepting the Vulcan High Council decrees as being the only logical constants in the Universe, begun to see their society as having becoming arrogant and decided to do some fieldwork on their own. Now we now T'Pol was the first to see this and lay the ground work for Vulcan 'radicals' to emerge in growing numbers. Imo.

 

ENTERPRISE ROCKS! 

I agree...I think Alterego should be be working for Star Trek...you have

great insight.

 

-----------------

To V_7:

Click For Spoiler

SURPRISE! THANK YOU!

[mj 7]

I also agree with ensign beedrill. In the TOS era Vulcans were still in all Vulcan crews. Remember the episode with the giant amoeba that began with Spock reacting to death of a ship full of Vulcans?

 

And remember in one of the Voyager episodes that we found out that Tuvok had originally been

posted with Captain Sulu and left Starfleet for a while to return to Vulcan in part because he had difficulty dealing with being among so many humans?

 

Vulcans and humans became allies and friends over time, but there were challenges because of the different cultural values and perspectives.

 

I am not bothered by the Vulcan's bad behavior in Enterprise. One of the things that we learned from the first two seasons was that the Vulcans were very busy aiding other societies who seemed to value their assistance and follow their advice. They seemed to esteem the Vulcans. ( I can't think of the names of the two episodes I am referring to.) The Vulcans thought it was going to be the same with humans, and it was not. The Vulcan's are logical but not particulary insightful-- they are not handling the change in relationship well, but in time, we know it will all work out.

 

Again, to me it is completely believable that the Vulcans would initially behave in the way they did. I think they will be profoundly affected by the outcome of the Xindi mission. I think they will be affected by now knowing what caused the insanity of the Vulcan crews that ventured into the Expanse, and I think they will be affected when they discover that Archer, who constantly irks them, also prevented the Andorians from obtaining the weapon that decimated Earth. If the Enterprise had not gone into the Expanse contrary to the advice of the Vulcans, the Vulcans would not know precisely why they had those problems in the Expanse, and the Andorians may still have ventured into the Expanse to obtain that weapon, and may have been successful in getting it.

 

The humans will be found to have been right in going into the Expanse. The Vulcans will have to acknowledge it, and admit to a resourcefulness beyond logic alone.

[Klingonmike 0]

I think Enterprise shows a perfect representaion of Humans and Vulcans interacting together for the first time. The Vulcans have always been condesending to Humans, treating Humans as if they were children.

Alot of people refer to Mr.Spock as the best example of Vulcan, well he's not, he's half human therefore we can't judge other Vulcans by using him as the template.

[Stewey 0]

I dislike the Enterprise Vulcans, simply because they are xenophobic, and aggressive towards other species, and not to mention slightly imperialistic.

 

They are the ones who are supposed to be the voice of reason in the Galaxy, the pacifist intellectual thinkers who form the backbone of the Federations moral and ethics when dealing with new cultures and alien species.

[Tina 0]

I agree with Unicorn hunter..I also think that The Enterprise writers should Seriuosly change the Vulcans role and attitude in the show.Maybe more Trekkies would go back to watching it..

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Well I believe having the Vulcan's being "hostile" at the start (ENT) of the saga makes future moments like these...

Click For Spoiler

 

...have more meaning than ever before.

Thanks Spacetigger!

[Julie 0]

I kinda like these vulcans. they remind me alittle of the British Empire of old. trying to keep the Humans, who are in this case to me, reminescent of early America, from causing trouble.

[mj 7]

I dislike the Enterprise Vulcans, simply because they are xenophobic, and aggressive towards other species, and not to mention slightly imperialistic.

 

They are the ones who are supposed to be the voice of reason in the Galaxy, the pacifist intellectual thinkers who form the backbone of the Federations moral and ethics when dealing with new cultures and alien species.

They are not xenophobic. Neither are they imperialistic. They have clearly been out in the galaxy aiding other species. The episode where T'Pol, Archer, and Mayweather went to capture that renegade Vulcan is one example where the Vulcans were called in by another species for help. The other example that comes to mind is the episode with that ambassador T'pol admired so much. Both cases involved the Vulcans being asked for help by another species.

 

To be asked for the type of assistance they were asked to render suggests that the Vulcans had a reputation for integrity and strength, and they had to be known as the type who would render assistance. They cannot be xenophobic and generate that type of reputation and trust. It is clear that they have travelled widely, and do have a good reputation with many species.

 

The challenge is that they are condescending. They are not always honest ,as shown in their dealings with their neighbors the Andorians. But they also are logical, so they can grow.

 

It is illogical to deny the obvious, which is what will come of the success of the Xindi mission. The Xindi mission will show that humans are capable and resourceful. The Vulcans will begin to accept that fact.

[WEAREBORG4102 0]

I think the Vulcans are portrayed too emotionally IMO. they seem too critical and not believing in time travel is (EDITED BY MODERATOR FOR FOUL LANGUAGE)....I mean come on war p is bending space time.... Space Time Hello it's the times space continuum!!!! What else do you want? Particle wave duality and the twins paradox???

[Jim Phaserman 0]

mjham made a few good points there. you don't get asked for help without there being this feeling that YES, you WILL provide the help needed. However, like HUMANS, the Vulcans have made some enemies.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

I kinda like these vulcans. they remind me alittle of the British Empire of old. trying to keep the Humans, who are in this case to me, reminescent of early America, from causing trouble.

Except we don't have pointed ears :lol:

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Knowing what we know about the Vulcans I think the hostility shown by the Enterprise Vulcans makes total sense.

 

As I said in another thread, we as fans have to take a step back sometimes and allow the stories to be told before we make judgments.

 

The Enterprise Vulcans really enhances and advances the development of the Vulcan race.

[mj 7]

As I said in another thread, we as fans have to take a step back sometimes and allow the stories to be told before we make judgments.

352046[/snapback]

 

 

I agree, and I think sometimes fans reacted to what they saw as if that was all they were going to see.

 

It surprised me that it did not seem to occur to people that relationships between races would have to evolve over time, and that initial relations could have been rocky.

 

Look at the difference between the relationship between Japan and the US or China and the US over time, or even the relationship between Vietnam and the US is changing.

 

Let someone else try to tell the story, and see what comes of it. Let's watch the Vulcans change and grow, instead of of assume that this way of presenting them is entirely wrong.

Click For Spoiler

So I was not surprised to see Acher to receive a confession from that he was wrong and Archer was right. Nor was I suprised to see him tell Admiral Forrest that they ( the Vulcans) were stunned by the speed with which the humans advanced during the season four, before the Vulcans 'rediscoverd' their past.

[krysis 2]

With all this Vulcan talk, I miss Spock. I have to agree with you all that it seriously sounds logical why Vulcans are so hostile in ENT. It also reminds me that Spock is only half Vulcan... or more human than any other Vulcan. May be that's why we all love Spock.

[APW 0]

I never cared for the Enterprise Vulcans.

Yes, the Vulcans are still evolving, but they should be closer to Spock and farther away from what we see on Enterprise in the Ent timeline.

I still have a problem with Vulcans actively spying on the Andorians in a fortified temple, and doing so many of the other things we saw on Enterprise.

:lol:

Just my Op'.

Edited October 20, 2005 by admiralpeewee

[zipkirk1966 0]

You know it's almost like what Q said TNG show he felt that humans were out there too soon and not ready for what's out there, the vulcans what seems to me are trying to protect the humans since they have learned about there past. I like these vulcans.

 

Brian

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I never cared for the Enterprise Vulcans.

Yes, the Vulcans are still evolving, but they should be closer to Spock and farther away from what we see on Enterprise in the Ent timeline.

I still have a problem with Vulcans actively spying on the Andorians in a fortified temple, and doing so many of the other things we saw on Enterprise.

:)

Just my Op'.

359041[/snapback]

Have you seen the episodes that explain why the Vulcans are how they are?