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poguemahone

Is Starfleet Military?

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It's one of those questions without an answer, here's the question posed in "Nit Pickers Guide for Classic Trekkers" by Phil Farrand:

 

"If anyone had asked me this question while I writing the nitpicker's guide for next generation my immediate response would been 'Obviously!'. Aside from the discipline of the crew , everything I saw smacked of military: the uniforms, the armament , the ships, ranks, the command structure. I just assumed that Starfleet was the equivalent of our modern day military, and took the oppertunity to criticize the lack of military disciple on Picard's Enterprise. Then The letters poured in that Picard had said that Starfleet wasn't Military. In addition, there's a story going around Trekdom that the Great Bird of the Galaxy himself Gene Roddenberry, unequivocally asserted that Starfleet wasn't Military. As to what exactly it is, I heard most likened to a fleet of ships run by Jacques Cousteau. What follows is a small collection of statements and situations dealing with this matter. I leave it to you to decide.

 

1. when ever there's a threat of invasion by the military of another group, Starfleet anwers the call. ( Balance of Terror, Errand of Mercey) If we were threated with war we wouldn't call Jacques, we'd call the Military

2."Tomorrow is Yesterday. In this episode Kirk tells Christopher that Starfleet is a combined service when asked if the Navy had bulit the Enterprise.

3."Errand of Mercey" Kirk tells the Organians he's a soldier not a Diplomat.

4."whoms gods destroy" garth tells kirk he is the finest military commander in the Galaxy-execpt for himself. Kirk replies he is primarly a Expoler for now.

5. Star Trek II, In reference to Starfleet, David Marcus states that scientist have always been the pawns of the military. His mother replies that Star fleet has kept the peace for 100 years

6.Star Trek V, Starfleet sends Kirk to Nimbus III to rescue the amabassadors, isn't rescuing hostages a military operation?

7. Star Trek VI, in the initail briefing a female Captain asks if they are considring mothballing Star fleet. The man in charge states that the exploring, and scientific aspects would be unaffected. If so then what would be affected then..., wouldn't it be the Military?"

and there are a bunch more, but is Starfleet Military? It's a good Question, and if it's not then what is it? :D

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I would Guess that star fleet is a military just because how they handle things.. yeah they have ranks, uniforms and whoever joins has to obey THEIR laws.. and how they fight.. they assume attack formations like an army.. they have special intelligence.. like armies... Admirals*ranks*... they have Bases all over.. THEY SAY ITS NOT A MILITARY!!! wow they need to re-do things..

i think its Half Military Half Exploration!!!!

 

 

-Lauren :D

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I would Guess that star fleet is a military just because how they handle things.. yeah they have ranks, uniforms and whoever joins has to obey THEIR laws.. and how they fight.. they assume attack formations like an army.. they have special intelligence.. like armies... Admirals*ranks*... they have Bases all over.. THEY SAY ITS NOT A MILITARY!!! wow they need to re-do things..

i think its Half Military Half Exploration!!!!

It is the futuristic version of a military. Who says that a military will mean the same thing it does now in the 23rd century and forward? There may be a whole new meaning to the word. It is a military, but not in the conventional sense of the word.

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I may be the future but they will not create new meanings for words.. they still teach history ... what they gonna say.. Oh and then Us Military Killed/stormed/attacked this place.. and a kid saying oh but its peaceful.. lol nuh uh..

lol

but yeah a Futureistic Military ... just they some home don't call it that..

 

-Laur :D

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I may be the future but they will not create new meanings for words.. they still teach history ... what they gonna say.. Oh and then Us Military Killed/stormed/attacked this place.. and a kid saying oh but its peaceful.. lol nuh uh..

lol

but yeah a Futureistic Military ... just they some home don't call it that..

 

-Laur :D

ya i guess

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How about this theory...

 

Although they are not a military org. by definition, they understand many (Ok, most) of the aliens they encounter do have true Mil orgs.

 

It is there fore prudent for Starfleet to look like a military org. so the Aliens encountered will understand the language of implied force even if that is not the goal of the Contact in the first place.

 

I don’t know, just thinking out loud... what do you think, plausible?

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uh...sure but when a group is first encountered (if in space), the ultimate goal is to avoid conflict, and not "flex their muscles", and theprime directive prohibits them from encourtering them on a planet, all out i mean, not the blending in with the culture thing with the apperence altering thing.

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How about this theory...

 

Although they are not a military org. by definition, they understand many (Ok, most) of the aliens they encounter do have true Mil orgs.

 

It is there fore prudent for Starfleet to look  like a military org. so the Aliens encountered will understand the language of implied force even if that is not the goal of the Contact in the first place.

 

I don’t know, just thinking out loud... what do you think, plausible?

It is Possible..

 

-Laur :D

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Voyagerboy, Poguemahone, You must not have understood what I said, Look at all of the hostile species ENT is incountering and the need to LOOK MIL is self evident.

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Star Fleet has a militaristic structure. HOWEVER, it isn't military. It's a combonation of varrious programs, all bundled up into one program - Starfleet.

 

You have soldiers, doctors, counselors, commanders, pilots, engineers, scientists, and so on. You have warships, battleships, explorration ships, science ships, scout ships, and so on.

 

After seeing the U.S.S. Grissom, in STIII:TSFS... well, do you REALLY think that Starfleet is completely military?

 

I say being a military is only a "function" of what Star Fleet does, and it's structure was adopted from the Navy.

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Star Fleet has a militaristic structure.  HOWEVER, it isn't military.  It's a combonation of varrious programs, all bundled up into one program - Starfleet.

 

You have soldiers, doctors, counselors, commanders, pilots, engineers, scientists, and so on.  You have warships, battleships, explorration ships, science ships, scout ships, and so on.

 

After seeing the U.S.S. Grissom, in STIII:TSFS...  well, do you REALLY think that Starfleet is completely military?

 

I say being a military is only a "function" of what Star Fleet does, and it's structure was adopted from the Navy.

I agree. The term that a friend of mine and I came up with was Unified Service, as refers to Starfleet. In other words the Federations military aspects are part of Starfleet, but Starfleet is not part of the military. We use this to explain the USS designation. We decided it stands for Unified Service Ship.

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I was just thinking about this the other day and I agree with Braltar that it is a combination of many things one branch of which happens to be the military. I myself would most likely never join the military as it is at the moment (in fact I would go as far as to move to Canada if need be) but I would however join Starfleet in a heart beat. Starfleet isn't about guns and power. Starfleet is about exploration and expanding our knowledge of the galaxy in a peaceful way. Yes Starfleet has solders and there are times when they have to 'bring out the guns' but it is rarely their first choice. Kirk said that he was a solder and I think that he most definatly was. Picard however was a scientist and a deplomate to his core.

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I agree. In Nemesis Shinzon asked Picard if the Picards had always been warriors and Picard said he always considered himself to be an explorer.

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Starfleet's first and foremost priority is exploration. The reason for the weapons are for defense. The reason there are ranks is to keep a clear chain of command during an emergency. If a Starfleet vessel is attacked, every member of the crew reacts the way they were trained to do, and a clear chain of command makes sure an emergency situation doesn't deteriorate into chaos. That's my theory. What do YOU think?

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Please forgive me if this is a dumb question.

 

Now that T'Pol has resigned her commission with the Vulcan High Command, and is no longer a Sub Commander (just a civilian like Phlox), what position does she hold besides Science Officer? Is she still First Officer, or does Trip move into the spot having the next highest rank?

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I think Archer is going to let her keep her current possition on Enterprise.

Mee too. I hope this all causes the dynamics of their relationship (Archer-T'Pol) to change for the better, not sexually but more in tune with the Kirk-Spock friendship. It would be sweet to someday be able to say Archer and T'Pol were the model for Spock and Kirk.

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I agree that Archer will probably keep her as first officer, I don't really think Trip is very suited for that position and doesn't seem interested either.

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I hope as well that she stays as 1st officer..and pray that they don't abuse her character strictly because she is female to Archer's male.

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Please forgive me if this is a dumb question.

 

Now that T'Pol has resigned her commission with the Vulcan High Command, and is no longer a Sub Commander (just a civilian like Phlox), what position does she hold besides Science Officer?  Is she still First Officer, or does Trip move into the spot having the next highest rank?

Maybe someone with some knowledge of the military and the chain of command therein can answer these questions. I guess I should have phrased my question as "According to military protocol and chain of command, will Trip become First Officer, since T'Pol has resigned her commission with Vulcan High Command and no longer holds any rank?" What would occur if this were the Air Force, Navy, etc.? (Starfleet ranks are based on Naval ranks.)

 

VBG, You were in the military. What do you have to say about it?

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It seems to me First Officer is whoever Archer chooses. As for Trip, if the same writers that wrote Cease Fire wrote him as First Officer he'd do a good job. If those who wrote the Seventh (B&B I think) he would be lousy. Personally I'd say give the former writers more work.

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Stardate:213501.8

 

 

I agree she should still be first officer.Maybe Archer will give her a temporary commishion as a Starfleet First Officer ;) .But I do think if that were not the case that Trip would make a very good first officer to Archer.They seem to be very good friends and I belive he would fit the role well.Although I dont know how he would be able to handle his duties as first officer and chief enginneer.

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Stardate:213501.8

 

 

I agree she should still be first officer.Maybe Archer will give her a temporary commishion as a Starfleet First Officer ;) .But I do think if that were not the case that Trip would make a very good first officer to Archer.They seem to be very good friends and I belive he would fit the role well.Although I dont know how he would be able to handle his duties as first officer and chief enginneer.

She can't join Starfleet! Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet. ;)

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Wait a minute. What about the Intrepid? I think that was what it was called, the ship that got eaten by the giant ameoba. Wasn't that a starfleet vessel? It was crewed by Vulcans.

 

I thought Spock was the first Vulcan to attend the accademy on Earth, not the first Vulcan in Starfleet. If Vulcan was a member of the Federation, wouldn't all their ships answer to Starfleet?

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Wait a minute.  What about the Intrepid?  I think that was what it was called, the ship that got eaten by the giant ameoba.  Wasn't that a starfleet vessel?  It was crewed by Vulcans. 

 

I thought Spock was the first Vulcan to attend the accademy on Earth, not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.  If Vulcan was a member of the Federation, wouldn't all their ships answer to Starfleet?

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE INTREPID......... BUT YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ANSWERING TO STARFLEET.........WELL THAT'S A GOOD ONE.......... I'D LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT MYSELF......THE VULCAN'S ALWAYS SEEM TO WANT TO DO THINGS THIER WAY AND GIVE STARFLEET A HARD TIME ABOUT WHAT THEY DO.......SO, REALLY WHERE DOES EVERTHING FIT IN......

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I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE INTREPID......... BUT YOUR QUESTION ABOUT ANSWERING TO STARFLEET.........WELL THAT'S A GOOD ONE.......... I'D LIKE TO KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT MYSELF......THE VULCAN'S ALWAYS SEEM TO WANT TO DO THINGS THIER WAY AND GIVE STARFLEET A HARD TIME ABOUT WHAT THEY DO.......SO, REALLY WHERE DOES EVERTHING FIT IN......
SO, REALLY WHERE DOES EVERTHING FIT IN....

 

That is what many of us have put our hopes in ENT to answer.

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I would think that Archer would keep T'Pol as his First Officer...Especially with her quitting the Vulcan High Command to go with Enterprise into the Expanse..But, I don't see her becoming a member of Starfleet at this time...I like Trip but I don't see how he can be a Cheif Engineer and a First Officer too..

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