Master and Slave

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

I just read this interesting article on the use of terminology to describe technology that some people may find offensive. As many of you know, a computer with, say, 2 hard drives has a main one called the master and the other one is called a slave (often used to store data, back-up info or whatever). Someone in L.A. County has taken offence to these names in reference to their use with 2 VCRs and requested a change (and even that the county doesn't buy equipment from manufacturers using those terms). I presume the master had some tape in it and the slave was either a back-up or recording from it. The county is now trying to remove such terminology.

 

Here's a link to a brief BBC News article that describes the problem.

 

Apparently, they may use the words primary and secondary now in such cases, which actually doesn't make as much sense since a secondary implies the same thing, which what many of us know as master and slave (technology) does not. One wonders now if high school students might not take offence to the new technology as it now casts secondary things (like secondary school) as being subordinate to primary ones (like primary/elementary school).

 

Am I the only one who thinks the County has gone too far? I'm not from L.A. and I'm not even from the States, so it really won't affect me one way or the other, but wouldn't it be more useful to spend tax money on educating people as to what these words mean in the context of technology instead of wasting money renaming things?

[cptwright 1]

just more beuarocratic crap.

[master_q 0]

I heard about this. I think this is an example of political correctness run wild.

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Data 0]

Yeah, it is pretty stupid. What about the old computers that people have in their homes. Mine still has a Master/Slave. :lol:

[Tank 0]

I myself don't believe that it's good to be so politicly correct that we can't speak. What's next will they take the terms 'Master' and 'Slave' out of the history books? Will the take the 'Black' and 'White' crayons out of the box?

[Yillara Skye 1]

I had read that article... :lol: this stuff is just silly. the terms master and slave are still used when referring to computers here at my house.

[Goose 0]

Stardate:213907.9

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

This really pisses me off!!!!!!!!I hate it when political correctness runs wild like this!!!!I wish somebody would bring me this guy so I could beat the crap out of his dumba$$.

 

Is this guy black??If he is I got one thing to say.Get off it you dumb SOB.The slavery thing was over 150 years ago you idiot!!!!!

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Stuff like this really gets my goat!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

EDIT: I know this is very hypocritical to do this in a PC topic, but do you think you could tone it down a bit Goose? Lol. I just put it in a spoiler because we are living in a world of political correctness and we don't want anyone offended. (Man I feel like such a hippocrite (sp). :lol: )

--bysty

[removed 0]

now thats just stupid. come on now. does political correctness ever end? it has nothing to do with slavery. they are just words to describe TECHNOLOGY! A NON-LIVING, HUMAN-CREATED DEVICE WITHOUT FEELING! i dont think political correctness needs to be used with computers. *rolls eyes*

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Glad to see I'm not the only one rolling eyes at this one. I'm by no means conservative and generally in favour of politically correct language, but this one goes a bit too far. Everyone draws the line between PC language and going too far in a different place, but I have to say that I think this is just silly. Master and slave are perfect descriptors for some types of technology since one controls the other. If somebody said primary and secondary I'd think, "Oh, good, if the main one breaks there's a back-up that'll do the same thing," but that's not what it means. I think it's sad that PC has gone to the point where people who clearly don't have much knowledge about what they're talking about (like the person who started this furror and basic technology) and are getting all riled up based on a lack of information, then pile confusion on the rest of us with constant changing of words that already work.

Edited November 28, 2003 by Red Shirt Volunteer

[removed 0]

yes PC is usually a good thing, and it helps us all get along better (and helps us avoid offending people. lol), but sometimes it can go too far.

[edmcgon 0]

The PC Police strike again! :cops:

 

What I would like to see is all the computer manufacturers ignoring this moron. Then what would L.A. County do? Get rid of all their computers? :lol:

[MongoBongo 0]

The PC Police strike again! :cops:

 

What I would like to see is all the computer manufacturers ignoring this moron. Then what would L.A. County do? Get rid of all their computers?  :lol:

Yup, the PC cops are at it again. What's happening in LA county is that they're renaming everything to "Primary" and "Secondary," instead of getting rid of their computers.

 

I believe that it is political correctness gone wild. You'll be able to find the whole story on store shelves, next to the "Girls Gone Wild" DVDs.

[cptwright 1]

THEIR STILL TEACHING "MASTER AND SLAVE" IN SCHOOL, AND I WILL FOREVER USE THE TERMS WHEN SPEAKING COMPUTERS.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Will they be changing the name of the motherboard to "primary caretaker" board?

[Tank 0]

I've been reading the Ray Bradbury novel "Fahrenheit 451" recently and for some reason this topic reminds me of it. The idea that anything that could be considered offensive to any minority group has to be censored. At this rate I would say that we're only a few steps behind burning books on the basis that they might make "some" people unhappy.

 

What will it be people? Happiness? or Knowledge.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I did read somewhere that this wasn't a formal policy but only a request for sensitivity. Perhaps it's changed since then.

[ddillard 2]

I just think that it is going to far.

[Goose 0]

I've been reading the Ray Bradbury novel "Fahrenheit 451" recently and for some reason this topic reminds me of it. The idea that anything that could be considered offensive to any minority group has to be censored. At this rate I would say that we're only a few steps behind burning books on the basis that they might make "some" people unhappy.

 

What will it be people? Happiness? or Knowledge.

Stardate:213912.6

 

 

 

Fahrenhiet 451 :shivers: Ah man I hate that book.I had to read it my freshman year and it was horrible.The movie was even worse We did a project based on that book and me and a few friends set it on fire with a blow torch.

 

A little Off Topic I know but oh well

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Yes, there are certainly some similarities to the book, but I don't think we're quite there yet. I thought that book stunk the first time I read it, partially because I saw the movie soon after and it left a "burning" impression on me, shall we say? The second time I read it I enjoyed it. It raises a lot of interesting issues.

[mj 7]

While I am not trying to be contrary, I can think of a situation where just having "unfortunate labels" could create a really uncomfortable situation. And that is when unpleasant people take it upon themselves to use such terminology to harass a single minority person, while pretending to have a conversation about the technology.

 

I'll try to illustrate. One of my professors (in graduate school--years ago) used the fact that the light had slightly dimmed in the corner of the room where I was sitting to make the comment that it was dark on this side of the room (it was one of those flickering fluorescent light bulbs). He made the comment looking right at me, because he knew the comment would go right past the rest of the students in the class, and that I would get his meaning, that I was unwelcome. He also knew it would be ludicrous to complain about what he had said. (Of course this one incident was consistent with a lot of his behavior.)

 

I reserve judgement on the complaint about the master/slave terminology, because it could be frivolous, or it could be that more is going on. The article reported that the worker just saw the terms. If that really is all that happened, then I think the complaint is a bit frivolous. But if there is some kind of subtle harassment going on, he or she may be trying to relieve themselves of the unpleasantness.

 

With regard to the whole PC plight, again, it depends on how things are handled as to whether or not something should be done or not about some reading or terminology. I remember in our high school, in junior honors English (1972-73) we were reading Huck Finn, I think. (If not it was Tom Sawyer.) Anyway we had read the portion where N_ _ _ _ r Jim had talked about how much money he was worth if sold. Well, there were three African Americans in the class. Our graduating class's #1, the girl ( Caucasian) who would graduate valedictorian that next year, commented on how surprised she was that he would make a comment about his value as property. Well, one of my black friends snapped to me (under her breath), as we both rolled our eyes, "Well just what did she think!? That he was too stupid to know his own reality?!" And she mumbled a few other things. But our teacher, who hears everything whispered or mumbled, said something to smooth out #1's remark, and diffuse the situation. She understood that #1 did not intend to make a disparaging remark, and did not let us take it as such. In addition she was able to help #1 broaden her perspective. Neither myself nor my friend, nor the third black in the class had any complaints. I can envision a less astute moderator not being able to handle such a discussion.

 

And then would come parents' complaints as their children came home talking about being insulted and "put down" in class.

 

The PC problem is the over-reaction to trying to remedy situations where language truly was being used to inflict pain or discomfort. I do not think it is as obvious a situation as most the comments here indicate.

 

I personally am not offended by the master/slave terminology in the context of computer components.

 

Changing subjects, Fahrenheit 451 is a great book. I think the world is headed toward the shallowness of Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World."

Edited November 30, 2003 by mjham

[Abakai2003 0]

I once heard it said that if you take something to it's logical extreme then you see just how stupid the thing is.

 

lets give its a go with computers

Start by changing RAM I might be offensive to woman as it is the symbol of a male.

Motherboard , Farthers might object

There are more but Its 04:32 here in the UK so I cant hold them in my mind at the mo.

But I hope you get my point

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

AOL Reliable ISP are offended just by AOL being around (I don't know what there like in the states but in the UK they SUCK)

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

While I am not trying to be contrary, I can think of a situation where just having "unfortunate labels" could create a really uncomfortable situation. And that is when unpleasant people take it upon themselves to use such terminology to harass a single minority person, while pretending to have a conversation about the technology.

Hi mjham,

 

You've got a good point here - thanks for adding it to the debate. I didn't quote the whole thing because I think you've summed it up well in the introduction.

 

I agree that there may have been issues not described in the article that lead to the problem. Someone could have made some kind of inappropriate (i.e. racist) comment that was said in the context of master and slave VCRs and the person who was the victim of this comment may have developed feelings that it was partly the fault of the naming of the technology. Your examples clearly illustrate how this can happen.

 

However, I think ultimately the problem is that there are people who will abuse the terminology. The problem is not with the technology, but with the racists who takes advantage of the situation where what they say would not necessarily be construed as racism (such as was the case with that professor you mentioned). The root is the attitude of these people, their overall (mis)education and lack of basic common sense, civility and manners. Changing the names of machines isn't going to fix this - they'll just find other ways to discriminate.

 

I myself come from a place where discrimination used to be rampant (it's still there, but not the same degree). Segregation was normal and people liked to stay with "their own." People would be denied access to good jobs based on their beliefs. Eventually, the government made this illegal. What ended up happening was that employers who wanted to discriminate found new ways to do it - instead of asking an interviewee about their religion, they would just ask what school they went to, which is a legitimate question in most circumstances. Unfortunately, due to segregation, revealing your school pretty much revealed your religion most of the time. The only way to stamp out such attitudes is through integration of different groups in our respective societies. Changing words is just a patch.

 

And yes, "Brave New World" is a great book, though I prefer "1984" and am more worried about the big-brother world portrayed in it. I think both books come at problems of the future from opposite directions, but both portray the citizenry as subdued by the government in the form of control by either intimidation and invasion of privacy ("1984") or dumbing-down through government sponsored entertainment (cue drugs) ("Brave New World").

 

Cheers,

 

Red Shirt Volunteer

[cptwright 1]

I once heard it said that if you take something to it's logical extreme then you see just how stupid the thing is.

 

lets give its a go with computers

Start by changing RAM I might be offensive to woman as it is the symbol of a male.

Motherboard , Farthers might object

There are more but Its 04:32 here in the UK so I cant hold them in my mind at the mo.

But I hope you get my point

 

 

 

Click for Spoiler:

AOL Reliable ISP are offended just by AOL being around (I don't know what there like in the states but in the UK they SUCK)

dont forget daughter boards, sons might find this offensive.

[mrskirk 0]

Yep, this PC stuff has definitely gone too far. Take, for example, my home town, Milwaukee, WI. We have a college here called Marquette University. Up until a few years ago, their basketball team was called the Marquette Warriors. Apparently, some native americans took offense with the term "warriors," as well as the team mascot, which was an Indian brave. This caused a huge controversy, Marquette University caved, and changed the name of their basketball team to the Marquette Golden Eagles. My thoughts during this media frenzy was "where will it end?" What's next, pro baseball and football? Should the Cleveland Indians and the Atlanta Braves change their names? And what about the Washington Redskins?

[Abakai2003 0]

It's my opinion (and it is just my opinion) that a black woman could stand up in the center of a town and shout "I'm a black woman and I'm proud" and every one would go "Well done". I on the other hand could shout "I'm a white man and I'm proud and I would probalby get arrested for sexism and raceism.

 

now I am all for equality don't get me wrong but its not equal. for instance I was the victim of a racist attack. I was attacked because of the colour of my skin, and when I told the police the laughed at me as if that was not possable.

 

and the other thing that realy annoys me is in my country (England) it is fround upon for flying our national flag Its OK for us to fly the Union Flag, it's fine for the Welsh to fly there flag or the Scotts to fly theres but the english are not allowed to fly the Cross of st George. Because it might be considerd inflamitory to the minoritys. infact it seems to me that any show of national pride is wrong for an English man. The Scotts can be Scottish the Welsh, Welsh and the Irish, Irish. But the English have to be Brittish.

[cptwright 1]

It's my opinion (and it is just my opinion) that a black woman could stand up in the center of a town and shout "I'm a black woman and I'm proud" and every one would go "Well done".  I on the other hand could shout "I'm a white man and I'm proud and I would probalby get arrested for sexism and raceism.

 

now I am all for equality don't get me wrong but its not equal.  for instance I was the victim of a racist attack. I was attacked because of the colour of my skin, and when I told the police the laughed at me as if that was not possable.

 

and the other thing that realy annoys me is in my country (England) it is fround upon for flying our national flag Its OK for us to fly the Union Flag, it's fine for the Welsh to fly there flag or the Scotts to fly theres but the english are not allowed to fly the Cross of st George.  Because it might be considerd inflamitory to the minoritys.  infact it seems to me that any show of national pride is wrong for an English man. The Scotts can be Scottish the Welsh, Welsh and the Irish, Irish.  But the English have to be Brittish.

I HEAR YA by the way YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD AND BE A PROUD ENGLISHMAN. theres nothing wrong with ANYBODY being proud of who and what they are just as long as EVERYONE can enjoy that freedom.

[mj 7]

It's my opinion (and it is just my opinion) that a black woman could stand up in the center of a town and shout "I'm a black woman and I'm proud" and every one would go "Well done".  I on the other hand could shout "I'm a white man and I'm proud and I would probalby get arrested for sexism and raceism.

 

now I am all for equality don't get me wrong but its not equal.  for instance I was the victim of a racist attack. I was attacked because of the colour of my skin, and when I told the police the laughed at me as if that was not possable.

 

and the other thing that realy annoys me is in my country (England) it is fround upon for flying our national flag Its OK for us to fly the Union Flag, it's fine for the Welsh to fly there flag or the Scotts to fly theres but the english are not allowed to fly the Cross of st George.  Because it might be considerd inflamitory to the minoritys.  infact it seems to me that any show of national pride is wrong for an English man. The Scotts can be Scottish the Welsh, Welsh and the Irish, Irish.  But the English have to be Brittish.

In America, the "Say it loud! I'm black and I'm proud!" movement actually was an indication of a significant social change. Prior to that, polite people referred to blacks as " Negro" or "colored," and it was an insult to be called "black," as surely as using the so-called "n-word". My parents took a long time before they would allow themselves to be called black because it was so deeply ingrained in them that they were being insulted if called that, whereas their children did not like being called Negro or colored. It was thought that people who used the old terms were ashamed of their color or race.

 

I think here in the past, it was common for whites in the North to talk about themselves ethnically or religiously, such as Irish, Lithuanian, Italian, Jewish, but that groups that tended to talk about themselves as white were usually thought to be racists such as the Ku Klux Klan or some other groups. That is not as true anymore, and I think people do talk about themselves racially in the North.

 

However in the South people have always discussed race more. When I moved South my second oldest brother who had lived in the state for several years told me the biggest difference is that you will hear much more talk about race and reference to race than at home. So people do talk about themselves racially more than people in the north do, without being perceived as racist just because they referred to their race.

 

I do think there is some kind of "PC" undertone that sometimes casts " white males " in the role of the bad guy. That is unfair and certainly does not lead to furthering understanding between the races. I also said in another thread that I had seen a situation where a white male was treated unfairly, and this was a shared perception among many non-whites around him, but he did not do anything about it.

 

With regard to the English situation, I do not have a clue, except that although the time has past from when "the sun never sets on the British Empire," and England is the dominant country in Great Britain, the British are intimately involved with the whole world in a kind of role like America often finds itself in, because of old ties. Maybe people expect you to " have it all together" since you are English, and considered dominant. I don't know.

 

I never knew that the Union Jack was not the flag of England,and that England had its own flag.