SpaceHippie 0 Posted August 5, 2003 Watching "The Cage" last night , I began thinking that to begin a series with a seasond Captain who was becomming disenchanted with his command, seemed odd, compared to the gungho James T. Kirk, but I could see the potential for drama in it. Do you think the network made the right decision to commission a second pilot? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A l t e r E g o 9 Posted August 5, 2003 I thought the idea to do a second pilot was Genes, the Network rejected the first as "too cerebral", Gene pitched an idea for another pilot and they (network) gave the green light leading to them buying the series based on the second, WNMHGB. Anyway if there had not been a second pilot we might not have any Trek except for The Cage. As far as the question which Captain was better; Brooding Pike or bouncy Kirk I choose Kirk. We later got brooding in the from of Sisko. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Bolivar 0 Posted August 5, 2003 I certainly think they made the right decision. Look how far Star Trek has come. If TOS was different there is a good chance that ST may not have gone this far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted August 5, 2003 Star Trek would have most certainly been different with Pike at the helm, but I must say that (while I rate TOS as my favourite series) I really like The Cage and the character of Captain Pike. I think the idea of Pike's disenchantment with the role of Captain would not have been a prolonged concept as he resolved that by the end of the pilot, be it did make the character more complex and made me wonder more about his past and the stresses that he had undergone. All in all I am glad that we got Kirk, but I am also a little sad that the series involving Pike was never explored further, it would certainly have been better than Voyager or DS9! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 5, 2003 We, as Star Trek fans should be glad that Jeffery Hunter had other obligations when it came time to film the second pilot. Had Hunter become the series star we possibly would have never had any movies, then no TNG, DS9 and the rest. Jeffery Hunter died in 1969 (I think it was '69) after an accident that caused a head injury. With his death, had he been Cpt. Pike or Kirk Star Trek would have likely died with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted August 5, 2003 We, as Star Trek fans should be glad that Jeffery Hunter had other obligations when it came time to film the second pilot. Had Hunter become the series star we possibly would have never had any movies, then no TNG, DS9 and the rest. Jeffery Hunter died in 1969 (I think it was '69) after an accident that caused a head injury. With his death, had he been Cpt. Pike or Kirk Star Trek would have likely died with him. Agreed, I had not realised this till a few years ago and thought it was sad as he could have gone on to be a great actor, even though I prefer his portrayal of Pike to Marty in The Searchers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cptwright 1 Posted August 6, 2003 i for one, am glad that it worked out the way that it did. i wasnt fond of the cage, i dont know that pike wasnt good in it, but i liked kirks portrayal of capt much better. and as VBG said, it worked out for the best for all trek fans this way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roguedawg 0 Posted August 6, 2003 Huge Christopher Pike fan,despite the fact that Jeffery hunter only made one appearance on Star trek.I've loved all the TOS novels set aboard Pike's Enterprise and think the character was much more complex than James T. Kirk and had the potential for greatness.As to the question of Star Trek thriving with Pike/hunter at the helm.Who knows?Had the network embraced Star Trek's first pilot history would have been different(maybe Hunter would not have had his accident).Perhaps,TOS would have even been on the air for more than 3 seasons.Its all speculation.All I know is that I wish Hunter had remained with TOS(and Majel Barrett stayed on as Number One). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fredbroca 0 Posted August 7, 2003 to my knolege the network is the one that wanted another pilot due to the fact that when they were picking the plot for the pilot they picked the one that would fail so they felt the pilot had potentiel and asked for a second pilot. who knows though what would have happened if hunters wife had not told him not to do star trek? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Colonel Worf 0 Posted August 10, 2003 It would have been interesting to see how the series played out based on "The Cage." I still think Star Trek might be around today... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam The Smuggler 1 Posted August 10, 2003 to my knolege the network is the one that wanted another pilot due to the fact that when they were picking the plot for the pilot they picked the one that would fail so they felt the pilot had potentiel and asked for a second pilot. Yeah, I read That they Requested A Second Pilot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 10, 2003 Huge Christopher Pike fan,despite the fact that Jeffery hunter only made one appearance on Star trek.I've loved all the TOS novels set aboard Pike's Enterprise and think the character was much more complex than James T. Kirk and had the potential for greatness.As to the question of Star Trek thriving with Pike/hunter at the helm.Who knows?Had the network embraced Star Trek's first pilot history would have been different(maybe Hunter would not have had his accident).Perhaps,TOS would have even been on the air for more than 3 seasons.Its all speculation.All I know is that I wish Hunter had remained with TOS(and Majel Barrett stayed on as Number One). Like I said above, if Hunter stayed with Star Trek the series likely still would have only had 3 seasons. Jeffery Hunter died in 1969. If he was the main star of the show would the show have survived a command change or would they have just faded out of site and gone the way of Lost In Space? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Data 0 Posted August 11, 2003 I have that pilot. They showed it on Fox back in the 80's. I do not think the audience of the 60's was ready for that setup. I liked the pilot better than the one they actually used. As for using a different cast and changing the character of Spock. I thought is was a great move. Actually the qualities of Number One, played by Barret were added to the Spock character and became the Vulcan traits. I do like William Shatner more than Hunter. Hunter was too serious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lessa_Soong 0 Posted August 12, 2003 wasn't one of the objections that the first officer was a woman? Can't remember? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 12, 2003 wasn't one of the objections that the first officer was a woman? Can't remember? Yes, it was thought (At that time in history) that the public wasn't ready for a woman in charge. And in all honesty, I don't know if the TV public was ready for it. That's not to say I agree with the bias that was shown by removing her but in 1965 something like that could have been the death of a show. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stardreamer 1 Posted August 15, 2003 You're right, VBG. The management of the network did't like the idea of a woman as Number One. I'm glad about the changes. That was the best that could have happened. Although I always liked "The cage" I do not belive that Startrek would have made it if there wasn't Kirk. Kirk and Spock are characters which elate people. Their names are known by people all over the world who have never watched Startrek - could you imagine that Pike/Hunter would have been able to achieve this? I think it was Kirks/Spooks charisma which made the fandom possible. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpaceHippie 0 Posted August 15, 2003 You're right, VBG. The management of the network did't like the idea of a woman as Number One. I'm glad about the changes. That was the best that could have happened. Although I always liked "The cage" I do not belive that Startrek would have made it if there wasn't Kirk. Kirk and Spock are characters which elate people. Their names are known by people all over the world who have never watched Startrek - could you imagine that Pike/Hunter would have been able to achieve this? I think it was Kirks/Spooks charisma which made the fandom possible. We have the advantage of hindsight, but how do we know for sure that Pike and Number One wouldn't have been just as revered as Kirk and Spock if they had continued in the roles? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 15, 2003 You're right, VBG. The management of the network did't like the idea of a woman as Number One. I'm glad about the changes. That was the best that could have happened. Although I always liked "The cage" I do not belive that Startrek would have made it if there wasn't Kirk. Kirk and Spock are characters which elate people. Their names are known by people all over the world who have never watched Startrek - could you imagine that Pike/Hunter would have been able to achieve this? I think it was Kirks/Spooks charisma which made the fandom possible. We have the advantage of hindsight, but how do we know for sure that Pike and Number One wouldn't have been just as revered as Kirk and Spock if they had continued in the roles? Quite possibly they would have been, the first Pilot was a big hit with the fans that were lucky enough to see it back before Star Trek was a series. But that hindsight says that we dodged a bullet as far as future movies go. Like I said, had Pike been the star of the series it may not have gone past 1969. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpaceHippie 0 Posted August 16, 2003 You're right, VBG. The management of the network did't like the idea of a woman as Number One. I'm glad about the changes. That was the best that could have happened. Although I always liked "The cage" I do not belive that Startrek would have made it if there wasn't Kirk. Kirk and Spock are characters which elate people. Their names are known by people all over the world who have never watched Startrek - could you imagine that Pike/Hunter would have been able to achieve this? I think it was Kirks/Spooks charisma which made the fandom possible. We have the advantage of hindsight, but how do we know for sure that Pike and Number One wouldn't have been just as revered as Kirk and Spock if they had continued in the roles? Quite possibly they would have been, the first Pilot was a big hit with the fans that were lucky enough to see it back before Star Trek was a series. But that hindsight says that we dodged a bullet as far as future movies go. Like I said, had Pike been the star of the series it may not have gone past 1969. There is no reason to assume the series would not have gone past 1969. Ok it didn't go past 1969 even with Shatner but still....If Star Trek had sold as it originally was, hunter's destiny would have been different. He would not have died filming "Viva America" because he would have been filming Trek and would have been in a compleatly different place. Assumingly. B) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted August 16, 2003 That's true I hadn't considered that, good point. Though you would have to look at the timing of the movie. Was it at the same time as Star Trek filming? Was it after Star Trek had been canceled? I mention this only because it's still possible for him to have been making the movie if the 2 schedules didn't conflict. Like George Taki and The Green Berets. I am a firm believer that when it's "your time to go" then it's your time to go. So I don't believe things would have changed for Jeffery Hunter even if he were on Star Trek or not. But that's a discussion for another thread lol If Hunter had lived through to today though, and if he had been Cpt. Kirk on the series I don't think things would have changed other then the 2 actors. Writing styles may have differed for a different lead actor but the "Star Trek history" likely would have still evolved basically the same (IMO). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xQuarkDS9x 0 Posted August 16, 2003 The Cage - Lord thats a old episode that brings back memories. I have to agree with you guys, if The Cage hadn't turned out the way it did we would possibly have not had Trek today the way it is. What I found interesting is how the original TOS bridge set in The Cage looked ever so more different. Those curvy snake like things they had on the bridge, I guess for communications and what not looked like it didn't fit in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roguedawg 0 Posted August 16, 2003 There is no reason to assume the series would not have gone past 1969. Ok it didn't go past 1969 even with Shatner but still....If Star Trek had sold as it originally was, hunter's destiny would have been different. He would not have die filming "Viva America" because he would have been filming Trek and would have been in a compleatly different place. Assumingly. B) Exactly the point I was trying to get across :( . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Data 0 Posted August 16, 2003 Interesting point about Hunter. I wonder how different the movies would of been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stardreamer 1 Posted September 10, 2003 All good points, guys. But still I'm not convinced. First to say, I do like "The cage". The story represents to me what's my notion on Startrek. But... As to me the "big 3" Kirk - Spock - Bones were so strong characters that they were not forgotten, even when the original show was cancelled. As it was said in the movie to 25th ST-anniversary the ongoing support of the fans made TMP possible. Of course I do not have a crystal ball and I do not know what would have happened. Just I couldn't imaging.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sirius 0 Posted September 22, 2003 I'm not sure Pike would have been as well received as Kirk.It was clear,to me at least,that Pike was near the mental breaking point in "The Cage".He could no longer bear the weight of command and at some point he was going to have a complete breakdown unless he was taken out of his command environment.I'd like to have asked Roddenberry what the thinking was behind making the Enterprise's command officer such a disillusioned and torn character.I bet his answer would have been interesting. I am much more happy with Shatner's James Kirk.Far from being put off by his responsibilities,he thrived under the tremendous pressure of command.He was only truly whole and alive when faced with critical command decisions,and his eventual retirement "killed" him well before Soran ever met him.In Generations,we see a Kirk whose spirit is already dead and gone.He is a hollow shell,and seemingly engaging in dangerous hobbies in an attempt at..suicide? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted September 13, 2005 Thinking back on the Character of Pike it would be interesting to see how the series would have gone with him as opposed to Kirk. I think it would have been quite different in many ways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TransporterMalfunction 1 Posted September 13, 2005 Thinking back on the Character of Pike it would be interesting to see how the series would have gone with him as opposed to Kirk. I think it would have been quite different in many ways. 351911[/snapback] Pike strikes me as a young Captain Picard. Very responsible and thoughtful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted September 13, 2005 Thinking back on the Character of Pike it would be interesting to see how the series would have gone with him as opposed to Kirk. I think it would have been quite different in many ways. 351911[/snapback] Pike strikes me as a young Captain Picard. Very responsible and thoughtful. 351934[/snapback] Yes, I think Gene may have patterned the two from the same mold. I don't think it would have worked well for TOS, not in the 60's. I think a more action oriented leader was exactly what was needed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted September 14, 2005 (edited) Picard does, even callinghis 1st officer#1, it would be cool to see TPTB do a Star Trek featuring Pike Edited September 14, 2005 by dragonwrangler95 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Essoq 0 Posted September 28, 2005 I thought the point of Pike lamenting his role as Captain in the Cage was so that we could see that he needed a vacation and was in the perfect position to succumb to all these fantasy women and scenarios. Maybe he would have been more happy as the series went on. Also Kirk often whines about how he feels responsible for everything that goes on because he is the Captain. In the Apple, he was saying that it was his fault the Enterprise would be destroyed because he didn't see warning signs. And in Metamorphisis, he said "I'm the captain, that makes it my fault" when their shuttle is forceably marrooned on a planet. That being said, there's really only one Kirk. I liked the Cage, and Pike, but Kirk's better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites