Meeting your past and future selves

[prometheus 0]

I've put this in with the Voyager posts because when Captain Janeway met Admiral Janeway they didn't really get on. And it's that sort of relationship I want to talk about here. Imagine you met your future self? Would you get on with them do you think? What about your past self? When I was 18 I was a lot more dull and boring. I didnt like to go any where and was a bit arrogant. I knew it all. I am now a lot more self confident and relaxed and love to have fun as much as I can. I am more open and tolerant. I wouldn't like to meet myself from 6 years ago. As for my future self, I would like to hope that he would be a successful person with a good life but also able to have fun.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well, this is how I would see it...

 

Younger me: Would love both future-selfs.

 

Present me: Would hate the younger me and find him annoying, but love to meet the future me!

 

Future me: Would hate both me and my younger self, call us irritating children, and run off.

 

NOTE: I'm kinda like Picard in not liking kids... :)

[jdigs 0]

Hmmf. If I met up with the younger version of myself, I probably wouldn't be able to keep up..hyper activity when abused is bad thing. Meeting an older version of myself...now there's a good question. It all depends on what the future me has done with himself. I can only hope that my future self would have decided what he was going do in life and that it was a smart move.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Ask your self this question; Do you have a childhood memory of being approached and spoken to by someone claiming to be you from the Future?

 

I would bet you don't therefore that is never going to happen.

 

What about this question; At any time in your life, do you have a memory of seeing a familiar looking person taking a long hard look at you but not approaching and talking to you? I would bet many of you do have that memory. Was that person you from the future? Do you also remember seeing another person very nearby the stranger over-seeing the Encounter? :)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Ask your self this question; Do you have a childhood memory of being approached and spoken to by someone claiming to be you from the Future?

 

I would bet you don't therefore that is never going to happen.

Why not? Here's my theory:

 

Timeline A: The year is 2015, you grow up and invent a time machine, they head for 12 years ago.

 

Timeline B: 2003, you encounter your past self, hang out, then return to 2015. Upon returning to the future, you think for a moment. "How come I don't remember meeting my future self in the past?" Simple explanation really.

 

You're from Timeline A. Which is why you don't remember it. However, if you look at this from the point of view of your Timeline B self, he would remember it.

 

You gotta think 4th dimensionally. :)

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Sorry but I don’t buy it. If the future ME came back and visited me today, I, ME, TODAY, would know and remember that in the Future I am going to go back to today and meet me.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Sorry but I don’t buy it. If the future ME came back and visited me today, I, ME, TODAY, would know and remember that in the Future I am going to go back to today and meet me.

You've got it all backwards.

 

See, since you haven't invented a time machine yet, there is no way the future you could visit you. You'd have to invent one, then travel back to today, find you, hang out with him, then return to the future. The him in the future would remember the encounter from both perspectives. The you in the future would only remember the encounter from the latter perspective.

 

Keep in mind that the you in the future would not neccessarilly remember the encounter. It's complicated. The you in the now who becomes the you in the future wouldn't remember being visited by the you in the future. Once the you in the future has visited the you in the now, the you in the now would, in the future, travel back to now, so the you in the now could have this experrience.

 

Still with me?

 

NOTE: Linear thinking doesn't apply in the conventional sense. :)

[Indy 8]

B) Oh, Sure, I understand that perfectly now. :) B)

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I am afraid you are the one that has it backwards. The speed in which you posted another reply is telling of the fact you gave no consideration at all to what I said. :)

 

Put aside the future for a moment and consider the here and now. If I created a time machine TODAY and went back 10 years to see and talk to my self, that event WOULD HAVE become part of MY history and I would then have a memory of it happening for the last 10 years of MY life. Because I have no memory of being visited by myself 10 years ago I know for a fact I am not going to invent a time travel machine today. Even if I do create one in the future, I know I will not travel back in time to a time before today. If I did, I would remember it.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I am afraid you are the one that has it backwards. The speed in which you posted another reply is telling of the fact you gave no consideration at all to what I said. :)

 

Put aside the future for a moment and consider the here and now. If I created a time machine TODAY and went back 10 years to see and talk to my self, that event WOULD HAVE become part of MY history and I would then have a memory of it happening for the last 10 years of MY life. Because I have no memory of being visited by myself 10 years ago I know for a fact I am not going to invent a time travel machine today. Even if I do create one in the future, I know I will not travel back in time to a time before today. If I did, I would remember it.

I have considerred all you have posted, but you're thinking too linear.

 

You haven't been visited by your future self, becuase you did not invent a time machine, not yet. 2015, you invent a time machine, and travel back 12 years, to 2003. You interract with the you of today, then you return to 2015. There is no reason why you would remember your future self interracting with you. You departed from the future of a time where you hadn't invented time travel. You enterred the past, making subtle changes to the timeline, ones that don't effect you as you are no longer in the future. Yes, "history" would record that you were visited by the you from the future, but you wouldn't have that memory as you originated in a different timeline, thus, you remember that day differently. I understand you disagree, but can you understand why I think this is how it would happen?

 

Editted to add: Here's a perfect example.

 

Take "Endgame" for example. The year is 2403. Admiral Janeway decides to get Voyager home. 2377, Admiral Janeway enters the past and succeeds. I'm not gonna go into details as I'm sure you've seen the episode.

 

My point is, you wouldn't remember "being visited in the past by the you of the future" any more than Admiral Janeway would remember getting Voyager home early.

[Gotabite 0]

B) I'm not sure who to respond to now B) But I hve truly enjoyed the debate. :)

[A l t e r E g o 9]

First of all you are not putting aside the future as I asked you to. The future will be no different from the present, just another day. Even if I do create the TT machine in the Future the same laws governing time will apply. But I will concede to you for a moment in an attempt to make my point. The time is now 13 years in the Future and just I finished building a TM. I decide to go back in time to the day of 5/28/03. I do and I suddenly appear right here in my office standing right next to me sitting here as I type these words. I stop typing for a moment and have a talk with my future self. After a nice discussion together Future me says its time to leave, we say good-bye and he vanishes back to the future. According to you, I have no memory of what just happened? Hogwash. I resume typing and tell you all about what just happened, with an understanding in my mind that in the future, I am going to be the one coming back in time and appearing in this room only as the visitor instead of the visited.

 

Take; Back to the Future for example; Doc called Marty to the Mall because he had a memory of being visited by Marty 30 years earlier. Doc understood Marty HAD to go back in time that night because he (Doc) remembered Marty’s visit of 30 years earlier.

 

Truth be told, (imo) they glazed over the fact the first Janyway did not remember being visited from the future because they understood if they showed Janeway 1 remembering she was going to be visited from Janeway 2, Janeway 1 would (should) have been able to defeat the plans of Janeway 2.

[joeybear 0]

first, HERE HERE to alterego - i see the paradox - new question: how is it that Janeway and her future self could exist together in the same time line; it's really odd that this post started up, 'cause i was just thinking of this the other day ... i read the idea once (anne mccaffery, dragonriders) that two versions of one self (future, present, past) could not exist in the same space together, that to do so would rupture both space-time and the person(s) involved; the idealism stuck with me, and caused me to wonder when i saw the two Janeways together ... whaddya think?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

First of all you are not putting aside the future as I asked you to. The future will be no different from the present, just another day. Even if I do create the TT machine in the Future the same laws governing time will apply. But I will concede to you for a moment in an attempt to make my point. The time is now 13 years in the Future and just I finished building a TM. I decide to go back in time to the day of 5/28/03. I do and I suddenly appear right here in my office standing right next to me sitting here as I type these words. I stop typing for a moment and have a talk with my future self. After a nice discussion together Future me says its time to leave, we say good-bye and he vanishes back to the future. According to you, I have no memory of what just happened? Hogwash. I resume typing and tell you all about what just happened, with an understanding in my mind that in the future, I am going to be the one coming back in time and appearing in this room only as the visitor instead of the visited.

 

Take; Back to the Future for example; Doc called Marty to the Mall because he had a memory of being visited by Marty 30 years earlier. Doc understood Marty HAD to go back in time that night because he (Doc) remembered Marty’s visit of 30 years earlier.

 

Truth be told, (imo) they glazed over the fact the first Janyway did not remember being visited from the future because they understood if they showed Janeway 1 remembering she was going to be visited from Janeway 2, Janeway 1 would (should) have been able to defeat the plans of Janeway 2.

1. This is what I'm trying to explain:

Timeline A

2015: You invent a time machine, and go back 12 years.

2003: You encounter your younger self, then return to the future.

2015: You return from '03, but you don't remember being visited by your future self when you were 12 years ago, becuase you did not whitness that timeline.

 

Timeline B

2003: You're visited by your future self.

2015: You invent a time machine, then visit your past self.

2003: You visit your past self.

2015: You return to the future, and the circle is complete. In this timeline, you do remember being visited in the past, as you are a component of this timeline.

 

This is how I believe it would work. It all depends on if you're looking at this from the original timeline view, or from the view of the new timeline. Remember this: The time traveler is not effected by changes in the timeline, if he's in the past, making the changes. This is why if you go back and meet yourself, the you of the past would remember meeting the you of the future, but the you of the future wouldn't remember meeting the you of the future in the past, as you didn't whitness that timeline.

 

 

2. You're wrong about BTTF. Doc called Marty to see the Time Machine becuase he wanted Marty to document it. The terrorists killed Doc, Marty accidentally activated the time cercuits while being chased, and ended up in the past. Just before gets back to the future, Doc finds the letter explaining the future event, to try and save him. Doc tears up the letter. Marty decides to return 10 mins early to warn the Doc. However, it turns out that 10 mins wasn't enough, and Doc seems to be killed. Only, Doc had saved the letter and tapped it up to see what the future would hold. So, this time, Doc has a bullet proof vest on. The "change" was that Marty saved Doc's life with a letter and made a better life for his family via changing how they met. There was no pre-destined paradox involved.

 

 

3. The first Janeway didn't remember being visited by the future becuase she wasn't. Admiral Janeway got Voyage home in 2393. In 2403; do to the deaths of Seven, Chakotay, and Tuvok's insanity, along with other crew members' deaths; Admiral Janeway decided to change the past. 2377, Admiral Janeway arrives from the future, helps Captain Janeway get Voyager home 16 years early. Admiral Janeway died in the Unimatrix 01 explossion.

 

Where's all this Janeway 1 should remember being visited by a future Janeway? The future Janeway was never visited by a future Janeway in the past. Captain Janeway will never have to "go back and bring Voyager home early" becuase a future version of herself allready did that.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

first, HERE HERE to alterego - i see the paradox - new question: how is it that Janeway and her future self could exist together in the same time line; it's really odd that this post started up, 'cause i was just thinking of this the other day ... i read the idea once (anne mccaffery, dragonriders) that two versions of one self (future, present, past) could not exist in the same space together, that to do so would rupture both space-time and the person(s) involved; the idealism stuck with me, and caused me to wonder when i saw the two Janeways together ... whaddya think?

My question is this: When Admiral Janeway travelled back in time and met Captain Janeway, why would they not be able to exist at the same time? I see no logical reason to keep them from being in the same room at the same time, in the same time.

[joeybear 0]

I know i'm using another story's temporal mechanics, but my question is this - how can the same entity, from two different times, exist in the same place (time) at once? - wouldn't they cancel each other out? - the past and present can't exist at the same time, right? ...nor can the present and the future ... so how could the same Janeway from two different times exist at the same time, in the same room, without a paradox? - wouldn't the two versions cancel each other out? - the idea isn't just from dragonrider - anyone see the movie 'millenium'? - it just wouldn't work...or could it?

[ddillard 2]

I have to completely agree with Alterego on his theory. But all I can say is that if it were possible to meet my past self, I would smack the living tar out of him for the mistakes that he is going to make.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I know i'm using another story's temporal mechanics, but my question is this - how can the same entity, from two different times, exist in the same place (time) at once? - wouldn't they cancel each other out? - the past and present can't exist at the same time, right? ...nor can the present and the future ... so how could the same Janeway from two different times exist at the same time, in the same room, without a paradox? - wouldn't the two versions cancel each other out? - the idea isn't just from dragonrider - anyone see the movie 'millenium'? - it just wouldn't work...or could it?

This isn't math class. Why would the two Janeway's cancel out? We're not talking "merging" two time perriods. We're talking about taking one person from one time frame, and sending them to a previous one, where they can meet them self. Why would they cancel out?

[jdigs 0]

You are both making incredably amazing points..I am sure you can come to some sort of compromise.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

  You are both making incredably amazing points..I am sure you can come to some sort of compromise.

Well, since none of us has a time machine, no one's right and no one's wrong. Just pure speculation, and I'm loving every post!

[prometheus 0]

Well my view is this:

 

Science likes to come up with several hypotheses on a collection of variables and then experiment with them to prove or disprove these hypotheses.

In this instance, we have two hypotheses from Alterego and CJLP. Since we have no way, as yet, to experiment with these theories and prove or disprove them we will only end up arguing until we are blue in the face. No one is right or wrong.

In such a case, the best thing is to just present your hypothesis, why you think it is right, weigh up why it may be wrong, and then just leave it at that until such future experiments will do their stuff with it.

 

It's a bit like me arguing that apples on Venus will be pink. I could state that and explain why and then that would be that. Some people may argue for hours why they would be pears, and not apples; and that they would be blue and not pink. But until someone goes to Venus and has a look, any further debate would be pointless!

[Chataeya 0]

B) Oh, Sure, I understand that perfectly now. :huh: 

:) :( I'm with you on this one, Indy. These guys have me Totally confused!!!!!! Boy, what a subject. :( I'm like this if it where possible to do, I would go back and chew myself out for all the boo boo's I made in my life. It seems that I've made a lot of mistakes in my passed. My girl's, I do not include in this as I have 3 of them and they are the best part of my life. Everthing else I would change if I could. :P

[joeybear 0]

could i just say this:

 

it can't be 2:00pm and 4:00pm at the same time ... can it? - that's my sorta conundrum...

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Here is a re-post of one of the questions I asked in my first post on this thread, which as a result of the debate between the Captain and myself (which was fun) was swept under the rug;

 

What about this question; At any time in your life, do you have a memory of seeing a familiar looking person taking a long hard look at you but not approaching and talking to you? I would bet many of you do have that memory. Was that person you from the future? Do you also remember seeing another person very nearby the stranger over-seeing the Encounter?

 

I have a memory of such an event when I was young, I was hoping people would come forward with yes responses to this question. It is my theory that time travel to the past to see your younger self will occur in the future. The catch will be NO INTERACTION OR CONTACT, only looking. That is/will be the purpose of the over-seer, to make sure no contact is made.

 

This is what I believe I witnessed as a youngster, a supervised visit from my future self. Wada ya think, can you say you remember such an event in your lifetime?

[joeybear 0]

i have had some experiences as a youngster that were, shall we say, 'off worldly' - i say this so i may lend an authentic ear to your story - the very real possibility of your experience has put my conundrum to rest - you should see the movie "Millenieum"; it is also a MUCH better book...

[Lollypop 0]

I'm just going to throw a spanner in here for a bit of fun. :)

 

I once read a book, about someone travelling back in time, and in doing so created a hole (vortex) in this time, and continuum. So other things close to the hole got dragged in, and thus made the vortex bigger. And you can imagine what happened. :)

[jdigs 0]

Here is a re-post of one of the questions I asked in my first post on this thread, which as a result of the debate between the Captain and myself (which was fun) was swept under the rug;

 

What about this question; At any time in your life, do you have a memory of seeing a familiar looking person taking a long hard look at you but not approaching and talking to you? I would bet many of you do have that memory. Was that person you from the future? Do you also remember seeing another person very nearby the stranger over-seeing the Encounter? :)

 

I have a memory of such an event when I was young, I was hoping people would come forward with yes responses to this question. It is my theory that time travel to the past to see your younger self will occur in the future. The catch will be NO INTERACTION OR CONTACT, only looking. That is/will be the purpose of the over-seer, to make sure no contact is made.

 

This is what I believe I witnessed as a youngster, a supervised visit from my future self. Wada ya think, can you say you remember such an event in your lifetime?

Now that is just freaky! No I can't say I have any memories like that. Care to elaborate Alterego?

[ARMS 0]

If i et past me i'd tell him, to not worry about school in years 7 and 8, make friends instead, then in years 9, 10, 11 study hard. As i did it the other way round :)

[trekkergirl220 0]

If i et past me i'd tell him, to not worry about school in years 7 and 8, make friends instead, then in years 9, 10, 11 study hard. As i did it the other way round :)

That is very good advice! You need to have fun as a kid while it lasts, but then as you get older, make sure you focus on your future and stuff (not that I exactly know what I'm talking about since I still haven't finished school, and I'm still at the age where your supposed to have fun.) I'm also a little overly stressed about school, and I'm trying not to be, because I know when I get older, I'll wish I lived in the moment more, and not worried about school as much until highschool. Life just goes by so fast, you have to appriciate it while it lasts.

[ARMS 0]

If i et past me i'd tell him, to not worry about school in years 7 and 8, make friends instead, then in years 9, 10, 11 study hard. As i did it the other way round :)

That is very good advice! You need to have fun as a kid while it lasts, but then as you get older, make sure you focus on your future and stuff (not that I exactly know what I'm talking about since I still haven't finished school, and I'm still at the age where your supposed to have fun.) I'm also a little overly stressed about school, and I'm trying not to be, because I know when I get older, I'll wish I lived in the moment more, and not worried about school as much until highschool. Life just goes by so fast, you have to appriciate it while it lasts.

Don't get stressed it's only school, enjoy yourself while your there.

 

You do miss school when it's ended.