The City on the Edge of Forever

[prometheus 0]

Click for Spoiler:

An unwell Sulu gets a boost of Cordrazine from McCoy on the bridge. McCoy accidently overdoses himself with this and goes all mental and beams down to a planet. On the planet, Kirk and Spock and a bunch of guys in red land to find him. They find a portal thing which is called the Guardian of Forever. If you jump through it then you appear back in time. It shows random images, surprisingly all seem to be from Earth's past and not the past of the planet. Why this is so we can only conjecture. McCoy jumped through this and changed history so that the Enterprise is now gone. Spock and McCoy must go back in time in the same way as McCoy to rectify the situation. Spock makes the usual calculations and they jump through.

 

They appear on Earth, in the time of the great depression before McCoy has arrived. After a quick theft of some clothes they find refuge in a basement belonging to a beautiful young Joan Collins. She's called Edith Keeler. She runs a shelter for the homeless and Kirk falls for her. Surprise surprise. Spock ingeniously builds a tricorder from old pipes and things and discovers that Edith Keeler must die to restore history. If she lives then she will start up this big pacifist movement thing and Germany will win WWII and the future will come out all rubbish. They figure out that McCoy must be going to save her from a death allowing this to happen. McCoy meanwhile, has arrived and is in her care. Kirk has to do something that will devastate him. Stop McCoy from saving Edith's life. So he does. Edith dies. And they jump back home and all is well. Sniff.

 

 

 

An excellent storyline which originally won an award. Top notch stuff.

[Indy 8]

This episode is considered by many to be the best of TOS. It is unfortunate that writer Harlan Ellison was unhappy with the treatment of his story.

 

Still, it was a great episode, incorporating a great range of emotion. Most importantly, it yielded the great Spock line:

 

"I am attempting to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives and bearskins."

 

[jdigs 0]

Thats one of the vert few eps of TOS that I've actually seen and I always watch the whole thing, I enjoy the whole emotional thing.

Click for Spoiler:

I just wish she didn't have to be hit by a car.

 

 

 

Shatner's acting definitly was at its best in this ep.

[cptwright 1]

This was an excellent episode, maybe the portal showed the past of the people that were in front of it. if it was a klingon there, maybe it would've showed his past. only a little conjecture.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

It was an awesome episode. one of those "needs of the one, or the many" episodes.

The look on Kirk's face at the end when he says "let's get the hell out of here!"

Looks like he had a part of his soul ripped out. Its very convincing. and sad.

and the machical rice picker bit.... :)

[LadyNarana 0]

Ok, don't shoot me, but I'm NOT a big fan of this episode. It has it's moments...the best, to me, being the whole mechanical-rice-picker thing. And the mnemonic memory circuit.

 

Thinking in a different direction, Spock and Kirk jumped into the past to fix whatever Bones had done - McCoy was their friend, but they were trying to fix the Federation. McCoy's reaction to the Edith's accident was pure Bones - he was trying to save a life. Kirk's was pure captain - he sacrificed a great deal to further his mission/quest - whatever you want to call it.

 

Here's my question - do you think he ever blamed McCoy for Edith's death? It's illogical, but so is the human heart (and mind, sometimes!). If McCoy, in his right mind or not, hadn't jumped back into time, Kirk never would have met Edith, never fallen in love, and would not have had to watch her die.

 

Sounds like fanfic material - sorry to the canon-only people.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

I never thought about it that way, but it actually does sound like some Fan fic i have read, but it was done and done well.

 

THe only thing i really regret is that they never went back here and played around a bit. I've not even seen fan fics where they did, but i have not read everything....

[prometheus 0]

Ok, don't shoot me, but I'm NOT a big fan of this episode.  It has it's moments...the best, to me, being the whole mechanical-rice-picker thing.  And the mnemonic memory circuit. 

 

Thinking in a different direction, Spock and Kirk jumped into the past to fix whatever Bones had done - McCoy was their friend, but they were trying to fix the Federation.  McCoy's reaction to the Edith's accident was pure Bones - he was trying to save a life.  Kirk's was pure captain - he sacrificed a great deal to further his mission/quest - whatever you want to call it.

 

Here's my question - do you think he ever blamed McCoy for Edith's death?  It's illogical, but so is the human heart (and mind, sometimes!).  If McCoy, in his right mind or not, hadn't jumped back into time, Kirk never would have met Edith, never fallen in love, and would not have had to watch her die.

 

Sounds like fanfic material - sorry to the canon-only people.

You see this is what I dont understand about time travel in Trek. Sometimes they were MEANT to go back in time. What did Bashir call it in 'Trials and Tribbleations'? A pre-destination paradox or something. Whereby it had always happened that way. For example, we could say that according to the timeline as it has always existed, Kirk and McCoy had always been there at that time, from the future. But then in other cases they WEREN'T meant to be there. And in effect they go back and change the original timeline and create an alternate future. For example whereby Sisko took the place of Bell. In First Contact I wonder if the crew of the Enterprise E were meant to go back in time or did they go back and create a subtly different timeline. What I mean is, did the launch of the Phoenix originally go without a hitch or according to the timeline, were the Borg always present at that time. Groan, my head! :)

[prometheus 0]

Oh and can I just add: Babylon 5 very logically sorted this problem out. You couldnt really change the past because if you went back in time you had always been there. If you know what I mean. They had great continuity. We always new about the original leader of the Mimbari and it turns out that it was the Captain of the station. Often a character would pop up and it wasnt until later in the series we see that they were from the future and we then get to see them going back to that time. Babylon 4 was missing for years but had actually popped into the future and then went back over a thousand years to play a pivotal role in history. I digress anyway. Well what their point was, if it hasn't happened in the past then it never will happen. Past is past and that is it. It cannot be re-written.

 

If I am in an empty room on Monday. And it is empty all day apart from me. Then that means, at NO point in the future will someone go back in time to that room. However, if at some stage I myself appear before me and say hello, then that means in the future I am going to travel back in time. It WILL happen.

 

Eeeeeek! :)

[cptwright 1]

eeeeeeeeeee, brain pain. :) i get what your saying, and i love babylon 5 great show, i know to which you are refering as well. but in this episode, they had to go back to fix what mccoy changed, they witnessed a change in their timeline, all they had to do was make sure mccoy didnt interfere, and save her, instead of actually doing something. so i dont know what you are saying makes sense in a way, but i dont know if it applies all the time.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

Remember ASSIGNMENT: EARTH?

The Enterprise people "interfered" but in this one, it turned out they were actually meant to be there jsut as Grey Seven was. Back in time, but this time the right time! :)

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I don't believe in pre-destination paradoxes. As far as I see it, you have one timeline, time travel adventure happens, then you have a subtly different timeline. :)

[cptwright 1]

I don't believe in pre-destination paradoxes.  As far as I see it, you have one timeline, time travel adventure happens, then you have a subtly different timeline. :)

what you, i, or anyone else "beleives" is irrelevant, its a show, they can do what they want, and when they come up with feesible explanations all the better, but watch and enjoy.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

I don't believe in pre-destination paradoxes.  As far as I see it, you have one timeline, time travel adventure happens, then you have a subtly different timeline. :)

what you, i, or anyone else "beleives" is irrelevant, its a show, they can do what they want, and when they come up with feesible explanations all the better, but watch and enjoy.

Here, here!

[MeeMaw 0]

I loved this eppy. Of course, I love the thought of time travel. Being able to go back and see what things were like. Not to mess with anything but just to see. I love the movie series Back to the Future, but I have one very small itch at the back of my mind that I can't scratch. When Marty goes back to his time, at the end of movie 3, it's not really his time because he's changed it. The parents that he returns to are not the parents that loved and raised him, they are different people, because of his interferance. He really doesn't know those people at all. We are the people we are because of what we go through, change one little thing, and we are different. So Marty's parents are not the same people because they would have gone through different things. But Marty was the same. Nothing had changed him, other than meeting his parents at his age. A little off topic, sorry! :)

Katy

[Lessa_Soong 0]

Not totally off topic and very thought provoking!

 

I agree that one kind of got me too.

[prometheus 0]

MeeMaw, I have had the same gripe. Also, when Futuristic Biff goes back in time and gives himself the Alamac, how was he able to return to the future he came from with the court house and everything? Surely when he went back in time and gave himself the Alamac then the alternate 'casino future' would have ensued and he would have returned to that future. How come the change only spread as far as 1985? Ah, my brain again! I loved the Twin Pines Mall and then after Marty mows down a young pine tree in 1955, the Lone Pine Mall!

[cptwright 1]

MeeMaw, I have had the same gripe. Also, when Futuristic Biff goes back in time and gives himself the Alamac, how was he able to return to the future he came from with the court house and everything? Surely when he went back in time and gave himself the Alamac then the alternate 'casino future' would have ensued and he would have returned to that future. How come the change only spread as far as 1985? Ah, my brain again! I loved the Twin Pines Mall and then after Marty mows down a young pine tree in 1955, the Lone Pine Mall!

hey now, its just a movie, it was all for fun, and not to mention it was for kids, and young adults too. their not gonna have a clue about the whole time travel paradox's etc. they sure wouldnt understand if he came back at that point and everything was different, they made it simple for anyone to follow, thats all. IMO

[MeeMaw 0]

MeeMaw, I have had the same gripe. Also, when Futuristic Biff goes back in time and gives himself the Alamac, how was he able to return to the future he came from with the court house and everything? Surely when he went back in time and gave himself the Alamac then the alternate 'casino future' would have ensued and he would have returned to that future. How come the change only spread as far as 1985? Ah, my brain again! I loved the Twin Pines Mall and then after Marty mows down a young pine tree in 1955, the Lone Pine Mall!

hey now, its just a movie, it was all for fun, and not to mention it was for kids, and young adults too. their not gonna have a clue about the whole time travel paradox's etc. they sure wouldnt understand if he came back at that point and everything was different, they made it simple for anyone to follow, thats all. IMO

I know, and they are all three great movies. I love each one. They make you think.

Oh and Pro, I had never thought of that. That would change the whole thing then wouldn't it?

*Monty Python Gumby* MY BRAIN HURTS! (Banging two bricks on either side of my head)

:) I had to put the klingon smilie in here!

Katy

[ddillard 2]

I think that this was a great episode.

Click for Spoiler:

I think the part where Spock hold Kirk back from stopping the woman from getting hit by a car was very emotional.

[Lessa_Soong 0]

Not to nit pik, Dillard,

Click for Spoiler:

but it was Kirk that had to stop McCoy from saving Edith. This is what started the whole thing and why it was so damned painful for Kirk.

[Admiral Kirk 1]

The time paradoxes always comfuse me so I'll just say that City on Edge of Forever was one of the best TOs eps IMO. Oh and I've read Harlan's original story and It's great.

[ddillard 2]

Not to nit pik, Dillard, 

Click for Spoiler:

but it was Kirk that had to stop McCoy from saving Edith. This is what started the whole thing and why it was so damned painful for Kirk.

You are absolutely right. I had not seen the episode in a long time and my memory was fuzzy.

[muddthe1st 0]

This was an excellent episode, maybe the portal showed the past of the people that were in front of it. if it was a klingon there, maybe it would've showed his past. only a little conjecture.

Interesting thought but Spock was there as well.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

This was an excellent episode, maybe the portal showed the past of the people that were in front of it. if it was a klingon there, maybe it would've showed his past. only a little conjecture.

Interesting thought but Spock was there as well.

Yes, but Spock was half human and all the others there were Human as well. THe Portal may have taken a "Majority rules" attitude to it and picked human history.

[Wishfire 2]

Last post was June 24, 2003, but I just has to dig this one up! I love the idea (and the potential plot-lines) of time travel. And everything I've read in this thread has been great.

 

Here's another one. In ST4, when Kirk and his crew bring the two humpback whales to the future, maybe that is the event that caused the extinction of humpbacks in the first place? I mean, perhaps the two whales were meant to have their calf in the past so it could breed and produce just enough offspring to prevent the total extinction of the humpbacks, but Kirk and co took them to the future, which led to their extinction, causing the alien probe to come to earth and devestate it, causing Kirk and co to have to travel back in time to retrieve two humpbacks... See where I'm going with this? Maybe their non-interference would have caused the time-line to reset itself, making there no need to go back in time for two humbacks. Of course, then Kirk probably would've been imprisoned due to the charges against him, and we just can't have that, can we?

 

Back to the topic of The City on the Edge of Forever....

 

I'd love to see something done with the entity/machine in it (what was it called?). If it's as well written as TCotEoF, it'll be good.

[mj 7]

There is a more recent discussion on City on the Edge of Forever somewhere in this forum. Perhaps TM could find the other thread and merge the two threads.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

There is a more recent discussion on City on the Edge of Forever somewhere in this forum. Perhaps TM could find the other thread and merge the two threads.

273440[/snapback]

 

Here we go guys and gals: http://www.startrekfans.net/index.php?showtopic=10592

[Lursa 0]

Well i dont like to read episode summaries only because it gives away the excitement of watching the show.

[prometheus 0]

Wow, old thread still wizzing about - cool. Time travel is still very very confusing. Minority Report puts a great spin on it as well. I love that movie.