vold

Assuming they take the alien invasion idea similar to what I've written.

It'll be nice to see it in the point of view of the invaders.

An old database or something of the sort was discovered, a psychic database that allows the user to experience what the logger is experiencing.

someone logging the events of the war, maybe even 1 of the commanders in charge.

A person who disagree on the invasion, but was force to participate by his/her superiors.

This invasion is his/her first, it has doubts of the intentions & face ethical & moral problems during the conflict, a conflict that lead to their eventual failure.

Some escape survived the incident, but decades later the victims become the invaders.

At first they didn't recognise them, but realising it was the same species whom they invaded in the past & fear that they have awaken some form of beast.

:lol:

This way, much detail of the Borg's point of view remain a mystery leaving room for more possibilities.

Due to the technology being both alien in design & effects the mind more suitable for the alien, the images are not too clear or easy to understand.

Borg History theory

IMHO, "based on known canon facts"

this is how I see their history.

1. The Borg "Species 1" were an organic species of an (unknown original name) living in a system in the Delta Quadrant for millions of years.

 

They were a Xenophobic race, When they achieve space flight, they stay around their own space alone. They are very advance in most technology. Especially nano technology, which is used for various purposes, including research at the microsopic level.

 

But they also have a very narrow view about their biological weakness. Being in their opinion, "Weak, flawed, organic."

Eventually (around at least 1,000 years ago from 2376) they developed a way to improve & recover themselves using technology.

 

Which was used in a global scale during an alien invasion on their planet. The use of the Hive-mind is developed during war to gain an advantage from their invaders. As the invaders are telepaths that gain the advantage by reading the people's minds.

Through analysing the alien's biology they have found a way to link minds together. By doing so, it confuses the aliens, as multiple minds are thinking at once. It was difficult to manuever themselves being new to this way of thinking but it is their only advantage and they won the war in the end.

 

From there they eventually became what we know now as the Borg.

 

2. But they are very unlike the Borg nowadays. They continue to be Xenophobic, any hostile invaders that engaged them, will be destroyed or assimilated. They only colonize worlds (populated or not is unconfirmed) nearby them.

 

Races that don't pose a threat, they will ignore them. like the Vaadwuar. Though they are quite advance, the Borg don't bother with them, as long as they leave each other alone.

at this time "1484, Earth year", the Borg have assimilated only a handful of systems.

 

3. from 1484 - 2145 '661 years'

The Borg have only encountered 262 species.

Species 1 or 0 being their origin.

 

This is the time they found the Omega Particle. They designated it Particle 010.

It represents perfection to them. Which IMHO, started their desire to seek for perfection.

 

starting from that time till now. 2145 - 2376 'only 231 years'

The Borg have encountered 9,763 species. Mostly assimilated, some ignored, few escaped extinction.

 

For only 1/2 the time, they have encountered thousands of species much faster than before. This suggest their new desire to "meet people". Hence no more being xenophobic. They spread across the galaxy, studying each species. Those found ready to join them, they will "invite" them to join their collective.

 

In their point of view, they are doing the galaxy a favour.

They wish to "improve quality of life for every species."

They aren't at war with the galaxy, that is why their space is still small (but bigger than the Federation by 2,000 light-years) in their own quadrant. They don't colonize worlds far away from home as shown in every planet scale assimilation episodes. Where they just come, fight, get the population & leave the planet empty.

 

Earth is an exception. Because it is the furthest planet of all. Practically the opposite side of their own homeworld. Also it is located in an effective location. In the middle of over 150 species. A perfect spot to create a new Uni-Complex. That is why unlike other planets, Earth was colonized when they assimilated the inhabitants, "Species 5618: Humans".

That's my point of view on the Borg's history.

:lol:

1. Reasons why V'Ger can't be the Borg. :)

1. Most importantly,

there's no canon mentions that there's a connection between V'Ger & Borg.

Books that mentions something, that the TV did not are not canon. Despite who wrote it.

 

2. Spock: " I saw V'Ger's planet, a planet populated by living machines"

The species who repaired V'Ger are not cybernetic either, as V'Ger pointed out, organics are nothing but infestations of the universe and that 100% machines are the true life-forms.

 

- The Borg were never "All Machine" not in the past, present or future.

- Its canon fact that the Borg were all "Organic" before they become Borg. And when they are Borg they are part machine not all machine.

- I say future as well is because, Borg wants organic as well to help find perfection. So we won't expect them to become fully techno anytime in the future.

 

3. V'Ger is about 98,000m long.

- The biggest known Borg vessel is only 3,036m long.

- If Borg can make something like V'Ger, why not make another or sent V'Ger itself to assimilate Earth.

 

4. The Voyager probe is launched at 1996 & returned at 2271 where it will join with 2 humanoid & created a new lifeform.

- The Borg were fully organic beings for several milennia ago.

- They become Borg at least 892 years ago.

- Both predating V'Ger's existence, hence the joining cannot be the creation of a Queen.

 

5. The new being, the Borg Queen?

- The new being looks like an energy lifeform of a sort, the 2 Borg Queens we've seen so far, looks nothing like it.

 

6. V'Ger destroys things in its path by zapping it with "something", wether intentional or not.

- Borg only destroys when provoked. Its a waste of resources & time destroying things when they can capture it as a whole.

- Borg had no such weapon, not even during TNG's time. If they did, there's no stopping them.

:)

There is also a theory out there that the Borg are the result of the fusion of V'ger (through the Ilia probe) and Decker. Even ignoring the timing concerns the fusion occurred in Earth orbit with no explanation of how they got to the Delta Quadrant.

Distribution Nodes

Borg Trek: The Beginning. The End.

Borg Trek: The Next Assimilation

Borg Trek: Unimatrix-09

Borg Trek: Sphere 74656

Borg Trek: Probe 01

Vinculum

Borg Trek I: Particle 010

Borg Trek II: Resistance is Futile

Borg Trek III: The Search for Perfection

Borg Trek IV: Unimatrix 01

Borg Trek V: Fluidic Space

Borg Trek VI: The Cooperative

Borg Trek VII: Unimatrecies

Borg Trek VIII: Objective: Assimilation

Borg Trek IX: Imperfection

Borg Trek X: Target Threat: Species 5618

The Borg Whisperer

Close To Borg

Borgers

Collective Idol

So You Think You Can Assimilate

The Borg and the Restless

America's Test Alcove

The New Collective Workshop

Borg Trek: The Original Series

Borg Trek: The Next Assimilation

Borg Trek: Deep Space Cube

Borg Trek: Sphere 74656

Borg Trek: Assimilated Enterprise

All My Borg

 

B*O*R*G

Borgfeld

Unimatricies (Like Friends)

C.S.A.: Crime Scene Assimilation

C.S.A. Miami

C.S.A. NY

8 of 8 is Enough

That 70 of 70's Show

Twenty-Borg

Survivor: Borg Prime

The A.C. (Assimilation Chamber)

Borgily Hills 8472

The Beverly Hillborg

Chaos & Order

Chaos & Order: Assimilated Victims Unit

Chaos & Order: Criminal Assimilation

Chaos & Order: Trial by Borg

Who Wants to Be an Assimilated Millionaire

Assimilated Development

Malcolm in The Alcove

The Assimpsons

Two and a Half Borg

Collective Ties

Borg Newhart

I Love Borgy

The Mary Tyler Borg Show

Happy Borgs

The Honeyborgers

 

Okay, I think I'm done and I have way too much time on my hands.

1. Reasons why V'Ger can't be the Borg. :P

1. Most importantly,

there's no canon mentions that there's a connection between V'Ger & Borg.

Books that mentions something, that the TV did not are not canon. Despite who wrote it.

 

2. Spock: " I saw V'Ger's planet, a planet populated by living machines"

The species who repaired V'Ger are not cybernetic either, as V'Ger pointed out, organics are nothing but infestations of the universe and that 100% machines are the true life-forms.

 

- The Borg were never "All Machine" not in the past, present or future.

- Its canon fact that the Borg were all "Organic" before they become Borg. And when they are Borg they are part machine not all machine.

- I say future as well is because, Borg wants organic as well to help find perfection. So we won't expect them to become fully techno anytime in the future.

 

3. V'Ger is about 98,000m long.

- The biggest known Borg vessel is only 3,036m long.

- If Borg can make something like V'Ger, why not make another or sent V'Ger itself to assimilate Earth.

 

4. The Voyager probe is launched at 1996 & returned at 2271 where it will join with 2 humanoid & created a new lifeform.

- The Borg were fully organic beings for several milennia ago.

- They become Borg at least 892 years ago.

- Both predating V'Ger's existence, hence the joining cannot be the creation of a Queen.

 

5. The new being, the Borg Queen?

- The new being looks like an energy lifeform of a sort, the 2 Borg Queens we've seen so far, looks nothing like it.

 

6. V'Ger destroys things in its path by zapping it with "something", wether intentional or not.

- Borg only destroys when provoked. Its a waste of resources & time destroying things when they can capture it as a whole.

- Borg had no such weapon, not even during TNG's time. If they did, there's no stopping them.

:lol:

2. Episodes with Borg references

Enterprise

"Regeneration"

 

TNG

"Q Who?"

"Best of Both Worlds" x2

"I Borg"

"Descent" x2

 

DS9

"Emissary" - Wolf 359 battle itself

 

Mentioned only

"The Storyteller"

Jake: "My mom was killed during an attack by the Borg."

 

"Second Sight"

Sisko: "Yesterday was the fourth anniversary of the massacre at Wolf 359... the fourth anniversary of Jennifer's death."

 

"Playing God"

Sisko: "My mind keeps going back to the Borg... how I despised their... indifference as they tried to exterminate us. And I have to ask myself... would I be any different if I destroyed another universe to preserve my own?"

 

"The Die is Cast"

Toddman: "Sounds like Wolf Three-Five-Nine all over again."

 

"Way of the Warrior"

Worf: "Chief, do you remember the time we rescued Captain Picard from the Borg?"

 

"Homefront"

Joseph: "I don't blame him. I haven't seen people so nervous since the Borg scare."

 

JARESH-INYO: "You're serious? With the exception of the Borg incident, there hasn't been a State of Emergency declared on Earth in a century."

 

"For the Cause"

Edington: "You know, in some ways you're worse than the Borg. At least they tell you about their plans for assimilation. You're more insidious... you assimilate people and they don't even know it."

 

"Let he who without Sin..."

Fullerton: "Because if I see you as helpless children, then how do you think the Borg see you?"

 

Worf: "I believe the Federation will survive the Dominion, the Borg... and even people like you."

 

"In Purgatory's Shadow"

Sisko: "The Dominion picked a perfect time to invade. The Cardassian fleet is in shambles, the Romulans aren't much better off, and between the Klingon War and the latest Borg attack, Starfleet's spread pretty thin."

 

"One Little Ship"

Worf: "The data collected here could provide Starfleet with the key to creating transwarp corridors through space."

 

Voyager

"Blood Fever"

"Unity"

"Scorpion" x2

"Drone"

"Dark Frontier" x2

"Collective"

"Unimatrix Zero" x2

"End Game"

 

Borg around, but not the center of the story

"Raven"

"Hope & Fear"

"Infinite Regress"

"Child's Play"

"Shattered"

"Q2"

 

Movies

ST:First Contact

 

ST:Nemesis

Janeway: "The Son'a, the Borg, the Romulans. You seem to get all the easy assignments."

Shinzon: "What is it your Borg friends say? Resistence is futile."

3. Canon Borg timeline

http://www.geocities.com/auric180/BorgEnco..._Encounter.html

Ignore the word "Disc 5" you may see there & don't take the months too seriously, they are non-canon estimation based on the Stardate calculator.

But the years are accurate.

:P

1. Borg Queen

The term Borg Queen so far, is made by humans.

As there's no confirmation of such a title in the Collective itself.

What we do know about her in the Borg's point of view is as she said. "She's the Collective"

Not necessary the usual egotistic people who say that to mean they are the leader.

Instead, she could mean it literally, as in the Collective is speaking through her.

The host head is not the leader, its the minds of the whole speaking through her who are the leader.

In other words, they are all the leaders & the drones. It's the thought that counts.

As there are too many drones around, each individual drones are program to follow a set of protocols on how to react to various situations.

Until the Collective decides to focus on a location, a ship for example. Paying full attention to the situation & coordinating the drones personally.

2. Uniforms

Yes, under normal circumstances, I believe the Borg would have recycled the clothes & not put it in a drawer or something.

TNG is just the drawing board for the Borg. Personally I'd say they made it too ridicules the way they perceived them back then.

There's no logical or efficiency in keeping such garments when they can recycle them if & when they are able to.

Something else I'm glad they changed is:

The Maturation Chambers is a chamber of fluid where the baby is placed, no more using a tiny drawer with a soft blanket snuggling it.

Personally I think that the whole "reintegration" thing is ludicrous. What do they do? Stick them into a blender and re-mould them?

If that's how they do it, than it is ludicrous, which I doubt its the case.

In the episode "the Omega Directive", Janeway said that borg would know everything that captains know because they have been assimilated. If that were so, wouldn't they know about prefix codes? They could have taken over one ship and could look up every prefix number and transmit them resulting in the assimilation of 39 ships at Wolf 359. I wonder why they didn't do that.

 

BTW it's in the dialogue between Seven and the captain talking about Seven's knowledge about the classified particle.

That's because they got Picard only at the time, he does not know the codes of other ships. Every ship have their own codes for their captains.

But they do have his basic knowledge of Starfleet tactics & knowledge. Hence it simplify their engagement at Wolf 359.

Problems Picard understands are resolved faster & known tactics are countered.

See the Cube in ST:FC, who doesn't have an up to date captain assimilated, all latest knowledge are not available and it took them hours to handle 2 fleets engaging it separately.

Nothing just disappear, not unless done intentionally.

Basic time travel, don't erase past timelines, hence the old Braxton is still around, unless killed.

The new Braxton will eventually retrieve his past self & by protocol reintegrate with him & he'll know & feel everything his alternate self does.

:)

A strange protocol IMO, why infect with their own people with alternate problems.

I posted this at ST.com, but I wasn't getting any good answers (or, really, any at all), so I figured I'd try here...

 

How was it decided to name the female Caretaker Suspiria? Was she named after the Italian horror film of the 70's?

Guess st.com is innocent on having no replies.

I think its common on Starfleet vessels after 2371.

Because the Defiant also have, in "Trials & Tribbleation"

the human looking Klingon used it on a Tribble.

In "Blaze of Glory"

the Maquis have them too, I would guess that's their source.

The idea they survived the extinction event then built warp ships is just too fantastic for me to believe.

 

The only logical way I can see they escaped the EE on Earth is if Aliens rescued a few of them beforehand then replanted them somewhere else where they continued to evolve.

 

Thoughts?

Not saying this is indeed how they left, there's no need for them to built "warp" ships when they left Earth, could be the old basic.

The thing about aliens is highly likely

Wait a sec, is this that episode where a culture is like advancing a 100 years compared to 1 hour our time?

 

Then it HAS to be a COMPLETELY different race!!!!!!!

You sure it couldn't have been a mistake by the make-up people for using that race? How often have we seen 2 different races look identical? Not very often.

 

Since the Alpha Borg's race is never named then it can easily be said that they're different but I think it was just a blooper of sorts.

How often? all the time.

There's dozens of human faces (no ridge, no spoons, no scars, no spikes, etc.) out there.

To name a few.

Ba'ku, Betazoid, El-Aurian, bunch from TOS, etc.

Question:

Who are these "Alpha Borg race" people keep talking about?

I agree on the ships not being connected 24/7

Its probably a security measure incase a vessel got infected or something. So that it does not pass on to the rest in the collective.

A small example would be, how it took almost a minute for the Queen to realise the Tactical Cube is under attack.

Well that could be because of the speed of the transmission over 30,000 light-years. Or it could be that the Cube just send a message informing of their battle.

Ya, Voy's maturation chamber is better.

Soft comfortable blankets don't seem efficient. B)

I don't think they can scan what's ahead of them of the conduit.

As for the possibility about ending up in the Delta Quadrant

That is true that they have no idea if the Sphere will go to the DQ. But they had no choice. If they stay outside, they will die by the Sphere.

If they enter the sphere which they did, there's a 50% chance of being either in the AQ or the DQ, which is irrelevant. As long as they are alive, that's good enough. In the end they will destroy the Sphere & see where they are.

:lol:

even if they are still in the Beta Quadrant. (They already pass the BQ borders)

Its will still be a shorter trip home.

:lol:

1. not exactly, but I assume 1 cycle is around a month.

The Raven was assimilated at 2355. 7 of 9 began her work around 2356.

Icheb for example, grew a lot in just a few months, in a year. But its unknown when he came out of the maturation chamber, could be months earlier.

2. Anyone in the maturation chamber, will have residual remains in them.

only people with strong immune systems can be recovered without a strip of metal in them. Others will have some things inside & can't be removed because its the vital systems that came in first.

At a young age, around probably teen age like Icheb, can live without the node in their skull. Or People like Picard, Tuvok, Torres & Janeway rescued in a short time too.

3. Prep?

u mean if they have put anything on them?

I would say either yes, or no.

we can see some implants on the baby in "Collective" & "Q Who"

but its unclear if its placed there manually or by the nanoprobes or when they are inside the maturation chamber.

4. Straight away I'd guess.

because in "unimatrix Zero" we see a kid pop into Uni-0 when he was assimilated & they say he is in a maturation chamber.

In the episode "the Omega Directive", Janeway said that borg would know everything that captains know because they have been assimilated. If that were so, wouldn't they know about prefix codes? They could have taken over one ship and could look up every prefix number and transmit them resulting in the assimilation of 39 ships at Wolf 359. I wonder why they didn't do that.

 

BTW it's in the dialogue between Seven and the captain talking about Seven's knowledge about the classified particle.

reanswering.

Who says they didn't?

As seen in DS9 "Emissary"

the fleet have problems even with the new upgrades.

And someone said that the new shields aren't working

The Cube defeated them swiftly. Unlike what happens in ST:FC which have more problem.

but than again remember, the only time the captain is assimilated is when the ship is gone. A captain from 1 ship, don't know the codes to another ship.

At best, they can only provide knowledge of their type of defenses.

So... at what point did the sphere swallow Voyager? Since when do spheres swallow starships rather than just shooting at them? And why did Paris say they were where they expected to be. Last I heard they expected to be back in the Delta quadrant.

1. All Borg Vessels big enough, will swallow a ship

Cubes are definately big enough to swallow people as shown in "Collective"

Spheres are shown to do the same in "Dark Frontier" & "Child's Play"

its a simple matter of opening a hatch & pulling in ships inside their hollow ships.

2. The Sphere (not Cube) swallowed Voyager when they are inside the Transwarp Hub's conduits.

Actually Voyager willingly entered the Sphere.

3. Its a trick for the audience. Where we will think that they are still in the Delta Quadrant, when in fact they are inside the Sphere. So seeing that many of you got confused, that means they did a perfect job at it.

The reason they enter the Sphere is because their Transphasic Torpedoes can't phase into Borg ships anymore. The Borg have developed a defence against it.

So they need to enter the Sphere & shoot from within, hence it does not need to phase through, as its already inside.

I just watched the episode in which the Omega Particle is detected, and the computer starts the alarm to notify the Captain. It is later explained that only Captains and above have any knowledge of the Omega Particle or the Omega Directive which demands its destruction at any cost. What makes me curious is, if only Captains and above know about it. What would happen if a Captain were killed in action and the First officer were to take command, and during this time the Omega particle were detected. How would he/she know what the Alarm was even for let alone what they were supposed to do. Seems to me that the First Officers at least, and maybe the security chief should have information on such matters.

 

I know that this is a crazy topic, but I just wanted to see what you all thought on the subject. Feel free to be as supportive, creative or brutal as you want.

I would have to say that no one will be able to open the file.

& that the Commander will just have to inform HQ of their problem & the HQ will send a ship after the Omega. But that's under normal circumstances.

If Janeway died, the Computer will know Chakotay is incharge & surely there's a protocol there to inform the new captain everything Starfleet knows.

or the Computer will keep telling Chakotay to hail Starfleet to tell them of their situation, lol

where they come from never seen home world borg what are they..

258414[/snapback]

I'm not sure we're answering the question correctly.

if your asking what they "were" from the beginning.

Than the answer is, they are as organic as most other races.

:borgqueen:

Queen: "Human. We used to be exactly like them. Flawed, weak, organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic. Now we use both to attain perfection."

a simple race that progressed far imbedding both technology & biology together.

It'll take billions of years for that to happen,

just to assimilate 1 galaxy will take milennias.

because they aren't just simply going around & assimilating everything.

They choose who to assimilate, hence it'll take a long time to finish the galaxy, as they wait for each race to improve to a certain level before assimilating them.

IMO, the Borg are also aware about this dilemma your asking.

hence they are studying a new method to seek perfection. by studying the Federation. Maybe they'll find a way to find perfection without total assimilation.

anyway, if & when they do assimilate the universe. All they have to do is go to other dimensions/universes/realities/time

But still, couldn't the Borg intercept transmissions and decode them with Picard's command codes?

Why didn't the Borg use the knowledge that Picard had of Starfleet weapons (displayed in FC) to their advantage? Why didn't the Borg interface with Picard in FC like the Borg queen did with Seven of nine?

248126[/snapback]

well, to answer the main post's question first.

1. The Borg did use Picard's knowledge. That's why they defeated the 39 ships swiftly.

in ST:FC, all codes & stuff have been altered, so Locutus's knowledge are old news here.

Without that knowledge, even a Cube can be taken out by normal ships in lesser amount.

But ST:FC's Cube has the 2nd best leader leading the charge. The Queen. She is an individual, unlike the average Drones she can anticipate what the enemy is planning, hence it'll require at least 50 Federation ships to destroy a Cube controled by a Queen.

with a liaison like Locutus, its close to impossible to destroy that Cube. Because not only he can anticipate how his own people thinks, he also got codes to help him. Not to mentioned, primitive fear about facing their own people.

2. as to why not link with Picard like 7 of 9.

Its because Picard is not "sleeping" in his alcove.

the Queen can only contact them properly if they were regenerating.

IMO,

in "Dark Frontier" 7 of 9 still believe in the Borg. Hence the Queen was able to contact her even without the alcove. During her momentary laps in concentration thanks to her father's logs.

but after that, there's no way the Queen can contact her at anytime & any place.

As shown in "Endgame" she can still contact her when she's in her alcove.

Its one of these people

Voyager: "Thirty Days"

Guest Cast:

Willie Garson as Riga

Alissa Kramer as Jenny Delaney

Heidi Kramer as Megan Delaney

Benjamin Livingston as Burkus

2. The Federation can be triffled with and still remain indiferent towards them. Federation citizens are just good company or toys for the

not all races in the Federation are "goodie goodie type" Humans are 1 of few races who forgives easily. Others like the Son'a who was nearly a Federation member (or are they still accepted?)

I doubt they will be in any forgiving mood, if Q mess with them like with the humans.