tbree_dVelnahr
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Posts posted by tbree_dVelnahr
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Vulcans have emotions but they are taught from the cradle to supress them. If it were not so, then Sarek suggesting that his "logic is uncertain when it comes to my son" would not have made sense in response to T'Lar's suggetion that what he asked for wasn't logical. (The rite of Fal Tor Pan hadn't been used in centuries and the desired results were therefore uncertain.)
It is the Discipline of Logic to which Vulcans subscribe. Forcing Spock to display emotions involuntarily was a danger, as expressed by McCoy in "Plato's Stepchildren". Anytime you force a person to do something against their will, depending on the severity and nature of the act, is detrimental. I was surprised to learn that it could kill Spock, but , considering how difficult Spock it just to admit to feelings at all, it isn't outside the realm of possibilities. It could also have been a unique condition to Spock, being half-human, who knows? I do know that such continuity in the later series was lacking on some of these points.
In "Amok Time" we learn that a Vulcan male has his Logic stripped from him during the Pon farr, something undesireable in their culture. It is the price they pay, according to T'Pau, for their supression of emotions the rest of the time.
Also, Spock informs us in "The Naked Time" that it must have been difficult for his human mother living in a society where the display of emotion was considered "in poor taste".
Vulcans feel emotion, they are just judicious as to how, when and if they will display what they are feeling.
Would I like to be that disciplined? No. For a time in my life I no longer was touched by sentimentality. I didn't cry at movies that once would touch my heart. It was awful --- I didn't like myself that way. I prefer to allow myself to feel, but I do try to control my temper, even so, lol. I believe in balance.
T'Bree
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George is gay? Hmmm. Well I wonder how all the Christian Star Trek fans will react. I'm bisexual so of course I don't mind at all. I met him once at a convention and he was a nice guy...and funny.
As a "Christian Star Trek fan" I have to say I reacted just fine to the news. I was surprised, didn't see that one coming, lol, but just because a lifestyle isn't favorably viewed by people of faith, it doesn't mean we don't still love the person! George Takei is a fine actor and he seems like a very likeable human being. I've admired his involvement in politics because rather than taking an "in your face" approach, he's done it with grace and style, something I can respect. I'm glad to learn that at least he is happy.
T'Bree
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Actually, at that time in Spock's life he was still very much living in a straight jacket. Trying so very hard to be Vulcan, he was stricter in his Discipline than most full Vulcans ever considered being. He was insecure and not entirely comfortable in his own skin. He had to grow into accepting both sides of his nature, something that only came with time through living with and understanding humans, to his mind meld with V'Ger in the Motion Picture when he realized logic without feelings is void. He finally came to grips with who he is.
As for using a mind meld to solve Christine Chapel's crush on him, I don't think so! Mind melds are dangerous in that the participants must completely lower their personal mental barriers in order to participate. Sometimes, as illustrated in "The Changling" said link is hard to disengage, as well --- another point of the danger to which Spock eluded when we first learned of mind melds in "Dagger of the Mind". It is not telepathy. It is also used, (and here some might disagree, but a little research goes a long way) to help form the link between prospective mates. "One touches the thoughts of another. In this way they are both drawn together at the proper time," according to Spock in "Amok Time". Why, then, would he mind meld with Christine when it could possibly strengthen her feelings for him and draw her even closer to him for the sharing?
Face it, he wasn't all that attracted to Christine Chapel and I can't say that I blame him. And I fully appreciate why wouldn't opt to allow her to touch his thoughts. As for being insensitive, I disagree. He showed pain in his apology to her. He didn't wish to hurt her and he knew he couldn't give her what she wanted.
T'Bree
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Personally, I prefer the DVDs of TOS. They are uncut, or mostly. I hear there are a few seconds missing, here and there, but so far I've not noticed. The clarity is profound, especially when viewed on an HDTV set. :( Save your credits and indulge yourselves!
T'Bree
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Well, I hear you there, T'Pol, it makes me kinda sad, too. I had thought more energy was going to go into this forum. Don't quite know what happened. But I keep checking it out whenever I come to this site. Wish I had a good topic to start the ball rolling again, I just can't come up with one at the moment. It's a darned shame. And most illogical, *wink.
T'Bree
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I'd say if you really want to enjoy TOS, indulge in the dvds. The Sci fi channel has a nasty habit of airing badly edited versions of this terrific series. You will not believe what you've been missing in the bits of original episode now cluttering up the cutting room floor! It is a disgrace!
T'Bree
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Thanks, but I wasn't asking about adding to anybody else's story. I was asking about the rules to posting my own fanfic in here. I'm currently redrafting a TOS fanfic and wanted to know what restrictions are placed at this site when posting stories. Some places have rules on the length of the post, for example.
T'Bree
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I haven't forgotten that Kirk hated the Klingons or that Spock signed him up for that mission, but it seems to me the anger went beyond that. He said, "Why didn't you trust me?" Is he talking about the fact Spock vouched for him in regards to the Klingons? Still doesn't quite make sense to me. I've listened carefully to the dialogue and it just doesn't ring true that Kirk should be so angry at Spock. Seems there is still an aura of mistrust between them or at least on Kirk's part. Does anybody else see what I'm seeing here?
T'Bree
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I just watched Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country again for the first time in awhile and it struck me anew that Spock and Kirk had this tension between them that goes unexplained. Kirk is decidely on the defensive throughout the movie when it comes to Spock. What is going on between these two? Is this supposedly a continuation of Spock's alleged betrayal of Kirk back in Star Trek V, when Spock refused to shoot Sybok?
It is my understanding that Star Trek VI takes place approximately ten years later in the timeline. Why is Kirk holding such a grudge toward the one person he felt closest to in the entire universe? Does anybody know what really sparked this bit of a feud between old friends?
T'Bree
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I was wondering just what the rules are regarding the posting of my fan fic at this site? Can we post something using the original Star Trek characters? Is there a length restriction to each post? Is a disclaimer above each post required? Is copying and pasting the way to enter the post or is there another option available? I've tried asking these questions, or similar ones at the Fan Fic Forum, but didn't get enough of a response. Thank you.
T'Bree
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We know that ultimately Spock takes a wife, through the inference of the TNG episode, "Sarek" in which Picard states he met Sarek at Sarek's son's wedding. There has been speculation in the form of a book, VULCAN'S HEART that Spock ultimately marries Saavik. I have to wonder, though, why he would wait so long to marry first of all, and why Saavik? Is it because she is Vulcan, (or half Vulcan as some would attest, although that was never made canon), or was it merely love at first sight for him?
Is Spock truly biased as he seems in the movies, preferring Vulcans over any other race, or is his taste in women more universally widespread IE Droxine, Leila Kolamie, Zarabeth, the Romulan Commander and even the dance hall girl seen wrapped around his arm at the end of "Shore Leave". He also gives the eye to "Mudd's Women" in said episode. The races of those women were never disclosed although it could be assumed from their physical appeances they were again, like Leila, human.
Who would he likely marry in the long run, or at least date for a time? Does he have a preference? Inquiring minds want to know.
T'Bree
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I was wondering what the rules were regarding posting a bit of fan fic at this site. I imagine a disclaimer at the top is needed? Is there any length restrictions? Also, does one simply copy and paste it in here or is there another method? Help in this matter is appreciated. Thank you.
T'Bree
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I agree with some of you that this film isn't the best of the lot, but I have since made peace with the plot points that failed in my estimation and come to enjoy it on the whole. My favorite part from the beginning and always of this movie, has been the ritual of Fal tor pan. In this moment we get a bird's eye view into the heart and soul of Vulcan mysticism. And we get Spock back! I definitely view it as part two of a trilogy. But don't forget, Star Trek V comes fast on its heels. If you listen to Scotty's opening report, he mentions Kirk's ending words from Star Trek III , "Let's see what she's (the new Enterprise) got." So, it can't take place more than six months or so later in the timeline, whatever length a starship takes for a shakedown cruise.
T'Bree
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I have nearly the entire TOS collection. Working on filling in the gaps. My favorites so far: "Spock's World" "The Vulcan Academy Murders" and "Uhura's Song".
T'Bree
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It was my understanding, and I believe it was pointed out in season 2, I think it was, by the Vulcan Ambassador Enterprise was called to rescue, that T'Pol was actually far older than she appears. I do not believe it is her youth that hold her "figid". And frigid is an unfair term. Vulcans are taught to suppress their emotions and their responses from birth. This is the reason they react so violently during Pon farr. They are stripped of their Logic.
T'Pol was betrothed in season 1. I missed most of the episode in which she broke it off with her fiance, but I found it odd she could just do that without going through the ritual challenge of Kalifee, as Spock had to in order to divorce T'Pring. One must note here that in certain cultures here on Earth betrothals are taken so seriously that a divorce is necessary to break them off. So, I think that is where the writer's derived the Kalifee ritual. Spock even described his situation as less than a marriage but more than a betrothal, and that there was a short ceremony to come to cement the deal. Of course, he was surprised to be Challenged.
This calling off of T'Pol's wedding may have been the same episode in which she chose to leave Vulcan space command or whatever it is called to stay on board the Enterprise with Archer. I only saw it once, and someone else may better know the answer to that one.
I don't think T'Pol is so frigid as she is disciplined in Logic. Although from the sounds of it, she may be finding some sense of balance, lol!
T'Bree
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I find it difficult to accept anything T'Pol says regarding Vulcan culture. In so many ways Enterprise has challenged "facts" we've known about the Vulcans, mostly imparted through Spock, the most famous Vulcan of all. I find this . . . disturbing.
I should note here, that in another Star Trek series, (TAS) one not entirely falling within the realm of canon with the exception of a single episode about Spock's childhood, has Spock mentioning his desire to offer prayers or worship to their gods in said aforementioned episode. So, you might be able to take that to the bank, as it were.
Hope this helps.
T'Bree
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Well, thank you so much for the encouragment and the invitation to do something as a joint effort. For now, I'll have to pass as my hands are quite full with other projects.
As for adding some of my own characters, yes I have. Seems necessary to the story I'm writing, lol. Only time will determine if I'm on the right track. I've written a complete rough draft and am currently redrafting it. Who knows, if I get far enough along before I pull it all apart again, perhaps I'll post a sampling at some point and those who read and post here can be the judge, lol.
At any rate, thank you for your thoughts on the matter, it helps.
T'Bree
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From TOS very little was ever imparted regarding Vulcan Mysticism, or religion. We do know they subscribe to Pure Logic, but from the movies (Star Trek III, mainly) we learn that they have an eternal soul. Sarek was most concerned that his son's body and his katra (soul) had not been returned to Vulcan after the demise of Spock. He was rather dismayed by it citing that all that his son knew, all that he was, was lost. It was so important, in fact, that Sarek set Kirk out on a mission to bring both Spock's body and his Katra back, once they realized McCoy was the keeper of Spock's katra. It was only after they learned his body yet lived, that they ventured the ritual of Fal Tor Pan (Refusion) to return Spock's Katra into his body. (Risky business, that, since they were uncertain it would even work, being an ancient ritual, after all.) Beyond that, unless it was further eluded to in later series, Vulcan religion remains a mystery.
On a side note: Gene Roddenberry had an extensive footnote in the novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture which addressed Vulcans' belief in a higher being, a creator of sorts, whom they referred to as the All.
We also can note that meditation is something a Vulcan does, something of a personal nature, again described by Sarek in "Journey to Babel". We certainly have seen Spock practice it. Incense and candles also seem to be a part of their rituals, as seen in "Amok Time" Star Trek VI: The Final Frontier.
Hope this helps in some small way.
T'Bree
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I'm really curious here. I'm noticing that many of the fan fiction posted on this site are really original works simply set in the Star Trek realm. Are people getting bored reading stories about the established Trek characters, (Kirk, Spock, Picard, et al)? I am in the process of writing such a story, taking a look at the more personal side of Spock while keeping a mission in the background, but will there be an audience when I'm done? Are fans moving on?
For me, I'd like to read such a story. We know a great deal about the characters' working life and a little time spent exploring their personal lives is intriguing to me. Any thoughts? Replies are most welcome.
T'Bree
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Nomad was damaged and was repaired by the machines on the machine planet and its programming was damaged and was written with their code so it would have its original intention garbled, so it would destroy inferior, flawed beings until Kirk proved it too was flawed when it mistook him for Jason Roykirk . . . but Voyager 6 was damaged also and then it could fulfill its programing "learn all that is learnable and report to the creator . . ." . . .could it have been the same machine planet?!? Possibly not . . .
:)
Just to be nit-picky, because I can, lol, that was Jackson Roykirk, not Jason. But you are quite correct to point out the similarities in the storyline between TMP's V'Ger and The Changling's, Nomad. Too similar in my book. I think The Changling was a superior rendering of the idea.
T'Bree
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It really was a good movie. The only thing I really did not like about it was I felt like I was watching Nomad episode all over again, just with better effects. As far as there being a few drawn out parts. Don't you think there is allot of down time in space voyages where there is nothing to do but stair out the window at the heavens and ponder, "whats out there" The Truth thats what is out there.What I have learned through the craft of writing is that although things happen one way in reality, they don't always work in a book or movie. IE boy meets girl and they fall in love and everything turns out great. That can happen in real life, but in a story it would bore the audience to tears, conflict is needed. That being said, I disagree with the lag-time of this movie reflecting reality, as you suggest. Not allowed in a movie, it slows the pace and hence the audience might just fall asleep!
Overall the story was good, inasmuch as I enjoyed Spock's life lesson in all of this. (In actuality, they changed his character up front and then brought him back to where he'd always been, lol. Or perhaps he better appreciated his human half and that emotions were not only okay, but needed as they coincided with the well-being of a Vulcan --- yes, even a Vulcan!) But the rest of the story reminded me too strongly of "The Changling" with Nomad, only not told as well. Yes, the special effects were better, they had a better budget and it was a movie, after all. But they could edit this film much better than even the Director's Cut, tightening it up a bit more. We don't need all the gratuitous shots of the Enterprise --- yes, she is a lovely, lovely ship but she is subject to the adage of too much isn't a good thing! And we spent way too much time gazing upon the alien vessel, without ever being able to make sense of what we were looking at, but that may be my personal gripe, lol.
There is enough good about this film, however, that being said. And I do take it off the shelf once in awhile to refresh myself on Spock's growth. Just wish they could have done this one better all-in-all. And I hated the uniform, spandex should be banned for life, lol!
T'Bree
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To the best of my knowledge, Star Trek is syndicated in several nations around the world, so fret not. Those who have ears, let them hear.
T'Bree
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I have to agree with a few other posters on this thread. Christine Chapel really, really annoyed me. She was a classic doormat of a person with basically no personality. I saw Majel Barret at a convention years ago and even she admitted to not liking the character much. I can't say I blame Spock for backing away whenever she approached!
T'Bree
Which TOS seasons do you own?
in Star Trek
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I own all three seasons, twice over. I have the uncut version on VHS and the digitally enhanced and remastered version on DVD. The latter is not the version currently being played in syndication with the added and/or changed CGI, but my DVDs are quite crisp and clear and play well on a widescreen HDTV. I'm very pleased. TOS is not only my favorite Trek, it is my only Trek. I'm a TOSer. :blink: