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Captain Jean-Luc Picard

29th Century Safleet

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Here's my theory. By the time the 29th century rolls arround, all of the time travel events that Voyager had been involved with would be part of their timeline, including the events from "Endgame".

 

So, we only see the 29th century Starfleet in "Future's End" with a paradox-style time travel story, and then a second time in "Relativity" when Captain Braxton returns to destroy Voyager to avenge his having temporal psychosis due to Janeway in "Future's End". In the other time travel stories, it would be history from the 29th century point of view. This is why I think the 29th century Starfleet doesn't get involved except for those 2 episodes. What about you guys?

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I hate to just say "I agree",,, but I do, and can't think of anything else to add ATM. :unsure:

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Admittitely, I have to say that I agree. I would like to see more adventures with the Wells Class ship and her small crew. Mabye even see more temporal ships.

Edited by shadowfigment

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That's because the only way to have any contact with them is via "time"

 

but I hope your not thinking that's all the Feds are doing in the future, This "Relativity" is but 1 special group that offices the time table.

 

There are ofcourse normal captains & crews that are still doing other things, exploring, research, fighting, getting lost, etc. I doubt every ship has their own Time tech.

 

:unsure:

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That's because the only way to have any contact with them is via "time"

 

but I hope your not thinking that's all the Feds are doing in the future, This "Relativity" is but 1 special group that offices the time table.

 

There are ofcourse normal captains & crews that are still doing other things, exploring, research, fighting, getting lost, etc. I doubt every ship has their own Time tech.

 

:unsure:

I know, I'm just speaking from the "time cops" point of view, as the guys at TrekBBS always complain about the Time Cops never showing up. :idea:

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Time Cops?

 

complains?

 

uh care to elaborate  :unsure:

Yes, the people at TrekBBS seem to think that the 29th Century Starfleet should'a shown up in episodes like "Endgame" to set things right, but the thing is, from the 29th Century Starfleet's point of view, the new timeline in "Endgame" would be the proper timeline.

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In my point of view, its something that has to happen in order for the 29th century we know of to exist.

 

It has to happen :unsure: like most other time events like Borg in 2063, Chronowerx, etc.

 

They all have to happen. :idea:

 

:dude: "There are no chances, coincidence or luck" :idea:

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Well, I don't believe in the predestined paradox. I'm a believer in the original timeline, people go back, then you have the alternate timeline.

 

Anywho, the way I see it, it has to directly effect the 29th century in order for that Starfleet to be involved, other wise it's history from their point of view.

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not quite predestine paradox, it is an alteration but to what as we know of, have i showed u my timeline alteration theory?

 

how other realities still exist even though its been "altered"

 

if people change the past, its not actually altering, its more like creating a new reality where the result is what they wanted. In other words.

 

"Timeless" Geordi is still looking at 3 dead humans & a hologram in front of him.

 

"Endgame" Captain Harry, the doc & Barclay all thought she failed because nothing has changed.

 

etc.

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For someone to know about a "pre-destined" paradox, they would have to be the instigator of the paradox, or be within a anomaly or be using a device that would allow them to "un-stick" themselves in time to witness the paradox, right?

 

:waaaa:

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Yes, that's why those people i mentioned, wouldn't know about the changes. They still be living in their merry little lives.

 

That's why most time alterers must die, so they won't suffer thinking they have failed no matter how many billion times they try over. They just won't realise they did succeed.

 

so to all time alterers that's not going there themself, have have to be ready to die in some way, so you don't need to worry if u succeed or not. :waaaa:

 

unless theres a way for you to know like scanning or something.

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For someone to know about a "pre-destined" paradox, they would have to be the instigator of the paradox, or be within a anomaly or be using a device that would allow them to "un-stick" themselves in time to witness the paradox, right?

Yeah, like the Enterprise-E in ST:FC which was caught in the chroniton particles or the Krenim Time ship in ST:VOY which had temporal shields which took it out of normal space-time

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There are ofcourse normal captains & crews that are still doing other things, exploring, research, fighting, getting lost, etc. I doubt every ship has their own Time tech.

Let's face facts. Time travel appears to be a common ability. Remember "The Voyage Home"? I mean if a 23rd century Federation crew, with a science officer who is still missing a few marbles, can take a ship they're not even familiar with to the 20th century and back then what stops more advanced crews and ships from doing it?

 

A "time tech" position could be very valuable, if only to serve as a warning of the inherent pitfalls of time travel.

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So we would end up with a 'time-cop' division of starfleet? Policing the time-line - that could get very tricky

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There are ofcourse normal captains & crews that are still doing other things, exploring, research, fighting, getting lost, etc. I doubt every ship has their own Time tech.

Let's face facts. Time travel appears to be a common ability. Remember "The Voyage Home"? I mean if a 23rd century Federation crew, with a science officer who is still missing a few marbles, can take a ship they're not even familiar with to the 20th century and back then what stops more advanced crews and ships from doing it?

 

A "time tech" position could be very valuable, if only to serve as a warning of the inherent pitfalls of time travel.

It may be common, specially for Feds, but they won't have every ship having it, if its been stolen theres problems.

 

Or Fed turn bad may use the tech. on their ship for something else.

 

in other words, they only assign some ships to have it, hence the "time cops"

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Sounds good, but how do they stop these time-cops from abusing their positions? If they changed the timeline to benefit them, would the federation be able to find out??

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Sounds good, but how do they stop these time-cops from abusing their positions? If they changed the timeline to benefit them, would the federation be able to find out??

That's what some loyal people are for & other time cops, theres a division of them, not just 1.

 

Like how Braxton [ is that his name?] tried to toast Voyager, but he's own past was after him & then the crew themself take them both to custody.

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not quite predestine paradox, it is an alteration but to what as we know of, have i showed u my timeline alteration theory?

 

how other realities still exist even though its been "altered"

 

if people change the past, its not actually altering, its more like creating a new reality where the result is what they wanted. In other words.

 

"Timeless" Geordi is still looking at 3 dead humans & a hologram in front of him.

 

"Endgame" Captain Harry, the doc & Barclay all thought she failed because nothing has changed.

 

etc.

That's a theory I've heard of, but I don't think time travel creates other reallities, but rather, changes a single timeline. Good theory though! :waaaa:

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In quantum physics... there is a theory that, "Every possiblity creates a seperate reality..." Data touched on this a bit in the episode when Worf was bouncing inbetween different realities.

 

So by going back in time and changing events, are you changing your reality or simply merging with a reality that has already been created from some other action?

 

:waaaa:

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In quantum physics... there is a theory that, "Every possiblity creates a seperate reality..."  Data touched on this a bit in the episode when Worf was bouncing inbetween different realities.

 

So by going back in time and changing events, are you changing your reality or simply merging with a reality that has already been created from some other action?

 

:assimilated:

Well, I believe time travel would only change the one timeline in one reallity, while at the same time, allowing other reallities to exist based on possibilites of that time travel trip. :waaaa:

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That's a theory I've heard of, but I don't think time travel creates other reallities, but rather, changes a single timeline. Good theory though!

 

actually it is a good theory, it explains how can there be a change when things are changed.

 

Because by having the other universe is still out there doing its job to make the the change happens.

 

You know what i mean.? :waaaa:

 

:borgqueen:

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That's a theory I've heard of, but I don't think time travel creates other reallities, but rather, changes a single timeline. Good theory though!

 

actually it is a good theory, it explains how can there be a change when things are changed.

 

Because by having the other universe is still out there doing its job to make the the change happens.

 

You know what i mean.? :waaaa:

 

:borgqueen:

Wouldn't the change also happen within our own universe too?

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I not sure u read this or not, but I'll post again. :waaaa:

 

"Time"

People always ask this very question.

Harry: "Wait a second, If I send a message from the future & change the past, then that future may no longer exist, right. So how could I send the message in the first place?"

 

In order to answer this, we need the "multi universe" theory's help. Where

 

[with every choice made the universe is separated to unlimited of different universes based on the choices made & proceeds on with its own course of time.]

 

Example

We'll be focusing on Voyager "Timeless" as its the best example.

 

PS: Please ignore the dots (`), its to keep far apart words stay apart.

 

```````````````````````````Year 2390

``````````````````````(15 years after Harry`````[Geordi Laforge

``````````````````````& Chakotay got back)`````````a Captain]

````````````````````````````````\/`````````````````````\/

Alternate reality >_____________________________________________

````````````````````````````````/

```````````````````````````````/

They both have````````````````/```````````````````They both have

Same History`````````````````/```````````````````different Future

````````````````````````````/

```````````````````````````/

Normal Reality....>_____________________________________________

``````````````````````````/\````````````````````````````/\

```````````````````````Year 2375``````````````Year 2378 "Endgame"

```````````````(Voyager attempted Quantum

````````````````````Slipstream Drive)

 

As you can see, this 2 lines represent 2 different Timelines intersecting with one another in a certain time [2390 & 2375]

My theory is, when a timeline has been changed, the previous Universe hasn't been destroyed. It is still there thriving. So Laforge's fear was unjustified, he could just let Chakotay, Harry Kim & the Girl to do their business & they will all still be alive & living in that timeline they knew after Voyager's crash.

While another Reality where Voyager hasn't crashed but exited the slipstream just in time is created to live long & prosper.

 

But theres a catch to altering the timeline, a very big catch, which the cost is the alterer's life in this case "Harry Kim, The Doc, Chakotay & his Girlfriend.

The reason for their life to end is to prevent themselves from realtering their own plans. Meaning,

 

Say Geordi let them live & do what they want, & Harry succeeded in saving Voyager. But they will not realize it, because their reality will still remain & they'd think they have failed & try again, & by doing so they could be creating more different universes still trying to save Voyager that they already have.

That is why the alterer must die, to prevent themselves from undermining their own actions. & with the other reality in existence, that is how the event keeps repeating it self to save Voyager, Harry's other reality self is what is saving Voyager again & again & again & ...

 

So for those who wants to alter the timeline, they would have to be prepared to die as well.

 

:assimilated:

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I had the idea that there are some things that are meant to be, by some means or another, like a natural temporal anomally which the 29th century people wouldn't mess with, but there may be some changes to the timeline that are just undetectable by any means.

 

Like Harry's transmission in Timeless, might have been such a small frequency and such a subtle thing that it would have gone unnoticed by the Time cops.

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not quite predestine paradox, it is an alteration but to what as we know of, have i showed u my timeline alteration theory?

 

how other realities still exist even though its been "altered"

 

if people change the past, its not actually altering, its more like creating a new reality where the result is what they wanted. In other words.

 

"Timeless" Geordi is still looking at 3 dead humans & a hologram in front of him.

 

"Endgame" Captain Harry, the doc & Barclay all thought she failed because nothing has changed.

 

etc.

That's a theory I've heard of, but I don't think time travel creates other reallities, but rather, changes a single timeline. Good theory though! :waaaa:

The only problem with the 'single continuum' theory is that it carries within it the seeds of its own undoing, allow me to illustrate my point with an example.

Starting with the original unaltered 'virgin' timeline , lets call it TL-1, and a very careful chrononaut,lets call him C-1 :assimilated: ,who only goes back to say 1800 for a fraction of a second and returns home. C-1's appearance disrupted the area he occupied,if only at a subatomic level, lets simplify it and say only a single particle was 'nudged',well that change created a new timeline TL-2 that lead to a new version of our traveller or C-2 :assimilated: , who goes back and creates another timeline TL-3,that leads to C-3 :assimilated: and so on. Over and over millions,billions,trillions,nearly an infinite number of times,thus the period between the temporal dislocations will remain in flux till the deviations create a disruption to the chain of causality and the source of the temporal flux(ie. the time trip) is unmade and the timeline between 1800 and the moment the traveller begins his journey simply goes 'poof' and there never was a time trip :assimilated:

The only solution is the 'many worlds' theory,but the bad thing about that is you are incapable of changing anything!!(go back and kill the enfant washington or hitler,you're only be polluting someone elses history) and the worst part is it completely ruins the dramatic tension of some really great Trek episodes :assimilated:

 

If time travel doesn't give ya a headache then ya ain't doing it right!!! :assimilated:

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It depends what im doing woth my time, if i get a headache or not, thinking about it is generally the worst thing to try and do if you havent got any paracetamol

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not quite predestine paradox, it is an alteration but to what as we know of, have i showed u my timeline alteration theory?

 

how other realities still exist even though its been "altered"

 

if people change the past, its not actually altering, its more like creating a new reality where the result is what they wanted. In other words.

 

"Timeless" Geordi is still looking at 3 dead humans & a hologram in front of him.

 

"Endgame" Captain Harry, the doc & Barclay all thought she failed because nothing has changed.

 

etc.

That's a theory I've heard of, but I don't think time travel creates other reallities, but rather, changes a single timeline. Good theory though! :assimilated:

The only problem with the 'single continuum' theory is that it carries within it the seeds of its own undoing, allow me to illustrate my point with an example.

Starting with the original unaltered 'virgin' timeline , lets call it TL-1, and a very careful chrononaut,lets call him C-1 :assimilated: ,who only goes back to say 1800 for a fraction of a second and returns home. C-1's appearance disrupted the area he occupied,if only at a subatomic level, lets simplify it and say only a single particle was 'nudged',well that change created a new timeline TL-2 that lead to a new version of our traveller or C-2 :waaaa: , who goes back and creates another timeline TL-3,that leads to C-3 :assimilated: and so on. Over and over millions,billions,trillions,nearly an infinite number of times,thus the period between the temporal dislocations will remain in flux till the deviations create a disruption to the chain of causality and the source of the temporal flux(ie. the time trip) is unmade and the timeline between 1800 and the moment the traveller begins his journey simply goes 'poof' and there never was a time trip :assimilated:

Interresting idea. However, if the time traveler goes back to 1800, and makes a tiny change, why would that effect him in the future before he travels back? :assimilated: The way I see it, you would have to interract with people, disturb items in the past, or something to that effect in order to change anything of any significance, and even then, your future might remain as you left it. In fact, this is an issue I'll be dealing with in a time-travel trilogy I'm writing. One of the themes will be a race of aliens, bent on stealling the main character's time machine in order to change history so they may rule our future.

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Interresting idea.  However, if the time traveler goes back to 1800, and makes a tiny change, why would that effect him in the future before he travels back? :waaaa: The way I see it, you would have to interract with people, disturb items in the past, or something to that effect in order to change anything of any significance, and even then, your future might remain as you left it.  In fact, this is an issue I'll be dealing with in a time-travel trilogy I'm writing.  One of the themes will be a race of aliens, bent on stealling the main character's time machine in order to change history so they may rule our future.

What I'm suggesting is that the original time trip wasn't significant in and of its self but that it was only a difference of a single particle, but it redefined the time line ( example: 1800-2800A and travelerA ,the pretraveled timeline ,becomes 1800-2800B and travelerB, difference between A and B, that pesky particle)

Now this causes no NOTICABLE difference in human terms but even if it takes nearly an infinite number of deviations to break the temporal circuit of 2800 to 1800 to 2800 it WILL break and from our perspective it doesn't matter if its the second time or the hundred trillionth time threw the cycle , it will be our history.

Its not the significates of a single deviation (though one can never discount that one in a million lucky shot)but the accumulated differences

Now up til this point I've used the example of the particle to illustrate the fragility of the timeline but lets up scale it to give a more human fill to it . You travel from 2004ad to 2004bc say to ancient egypt and stay only a moment as you see the landscape and enjoy a cool breeze blowing from off the nile ,but to preserve the timeline you leave quickly ( you are a very responsible chrono- tourist :assimilated: ) well you changed the air flow in the spot you stood and that tiny change causes other tiny changes as air particles bump together causing slighty larger diviations, day after day , year after year, century after century till say for example the freak fog that shielded Washingtons escape from brooklyn appeared a day before or a day after. So Washington's hanged, the U.S. loses the war, and you are almost certanly not born (which would really put a kink in you travel plans to egypt :assimilated: )

In other words again the timeline goes 'poof',but I'm not saying you can't travel in time,only that you can not travel to YOUR past as , taking the many worlds theory into account,the act would cause a new timeline.

So I guess the moral of the story is go back in time and kill George Washington as many times as you like, there plenty more of hims where they came from :assimilated:

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