The Women of Voyager

[Gotabite 0]

Among other things, Voyager will be remembered for female personalities that were highly developed characters; who held important, respected positions in maintaining the integrity of the ship Voyager. I'd like to begin a discussion of how the three most famous of these characters (Janeway, B'Elanna and Seven of Nine) will be remembered as part of the great Star Trek legacy:

Janeway: Personally, I thought she was an admirable captain. She had a lot of very difficult decisions to make, from the very onset of her command of Voyager. I thought she always conducted herself professionally as a captain, and to the best of her abilities; she placed her crew above all else. But because of all she had to deal with; I think in the legacy she will be the captain most criticized by Star Trek fans.

 

B'Elanna: A very talented, gifted, insecure, angry, radical character, because of her mixed heritage.....and because of her family and social experiences. We watched her grow and mature; and her passion took on a much more responsible nature as the series progressed, and she worked through her trauma and insecurities. In my opinion, she will be one of the most memorable women of Star Trek, because of who she was, and who she became.

 

Seven of Nine: The little girl assimilated by the Borg, whose human qualities slowly returned once she was disconnected from the hive. Seven in my opinion will be one of the most controversial women of Star Trek. Her legacy will include all that she is criticized for..ie...being a sex symbol, replacing Kes....Still I think she will be great because of her character development, intelligence, strong story plots brought to Voyager, and her capabilities in navigating the ship.

 

What are some of your thoughts about these three :) ????????

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

What about Kes?

[Klingonmike 0]

I agree with you Gotabite, these three women are the most well developed characters ever on Star Trek.

As for Kes she was ok and kinda cute, but I'm glad she left the show since she would have died before Voyager ended their run. The Ocampa only live to be 6 or 7 years old.

[Mike 5]

What I can remember of my limited Voyager exposure I liked. Yes, Gotabite, those 3 female characters were exceptional. I'm looking forward to the season sets to fill in the gaps..Really I've only seen like 25% of the episodes and that was years ago..How many seasons was Kes on? What was it like 3 years? They shouldn't have placed that limited lifespan restriction on her..

[Cramase 0]

Yes, but you have to create a balance between strong characters and a strong plotline, I think Kes' departure was a good move for the series because it allowed for more interesting episodes later on ie with Neelix now he is on his own, plus that great episode where Kes returns

[Gotabite 0]

My reason for excluding Kes was not to deny her as a Voyager female character of importance. However, personally I never saw her character development as extensive and dramatic as the other three. However, anyone wanting to discuss her character as we talk about the women of Voyager.....feel free to do so, and to disagree with my view of Kes, is okay too. :)

[ARMS 0]

KM Ocampa lives till 9 years old

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

KM Ocampa lives till 9 years old

True, but in Season 2, Voyager met the female character, and a smaller array full of Ocampa who's life span was in their teens.

[ARMS 0]

You mean the female Caretaker, and i thought they lived to their 20's...

[Shuttle 0]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the comments about Kes here (no offense intended)

 

Her departure was not, IMHO, a good thing - it was a transparent move toward "sexing" the show up - I agree that it did create one or two interesting strories, as Cramase noted, but lets face it, those episodes were hardly ground breaking.

 

Gotabite said (I quote): However, personally I never saw her character development as extensive and dramatic as the other three.

 

Correct - but isn't that the fault of whoever wrote the scripts?

 

And saying "The Ocampa only live for 9 (or whatever) years - the only barrier with character development is the imagination of the writers, and I don't beleive that whoever was writing the Kes character had much of an imagination.

 

What I'm saying is that there WAS a lot of potential in Kes, but it seems like the writers were so preoccupied with promoting a cetain catsuit clad character at us that they could not be bothered with developing ANY of the characters for a while.

 

Funny how shortly after Kes left, character development was limited to Janeway's interaction with 7, Chakotay's interaction with 7, Harry's interaction with seven etc etc..................

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the comments about Kes here (no offense intended)

 

Her departure was not, IMHO, a good thing - it was a transparent move toward "sexing" the show up - I agree that it did create one or two interesting strories, as Cramase noted, but lets face it, those episodes were hardly ground breaking.

 

Gotabite said (I quote): However, personally I never saw her character development as extensive and dramatic as the other three.

 

Correct - but isn't that the fault of whoever wrote the scripts?

 

And saying "The Ocampa only live for 9 (or whatever) years - the only barrier with character development is the imagination of the writers, and I don't beleive that whoever was writing the Kes character had much of an imagination.

 

What I'm saying is that there WAS a lot of potential in Kes, but it seems like the writers were so preoccupied with promoting a cetain catsuit clad character at us that they could not be bothered with developing ANY of the characters for a while.

 

Funny how shortly after Kes left, character development was limited to Janeway's interaction with 7, Chakotay's interaction with 7, Harry's interaction with seven etc etc..................

Keep in mind that it's different writers per episode, and the approach to VOY was much like TOS & TNG, and that was by just planning a few episodes at a time.

 

As for Kes's departure, they wanted a Borg character. Braga wanted it to be a him, UPN wanted a sexy woman in a catsuit, so that's what we got. Originally, Harry was to be killed off, but he got some popular magazine status thing, so they wrote Kes out instead.

 

I thought Kes was an excellent character, and was sad to see her leave just after she matures in Season 3.

[Ace 0]

Don't get me wrong - I think Kes was a good character.

 

However, and please don't take offense to this, Kes was a BORING character for the majority of her time on VOY, imho. Though some of the blame most certainly lies on the writers, Kes's character development was just running into far too many dead ends. For a character to be interesting, there needs to be some kind of conflict, and except for one Kes episode ("Warlord" They could've done w/o this one), we didn't get to see much of this aspect.

Yes, Jeri Ryan was brought onto the show for obvious reasons, but 7of9, the character, also seemed to be an attempt to recapture the magic of TNG's Data and TOS's Spock. What made both of these characters so interesting, at times, were their reactions to/observations of humanity, and Data's attempts to become more human. That's exactly what the character of Seven did for the 4 seasons she was on the show, and it worked. Granted, the actress and the outfits brought in more viewers, but despite those things the character was still interesting. Kes was interesting, but she wasn't obviously trying to adapt to her new environment, and never truly struggled with anything in her nature. Her most interesting character development was becoming clairvoyant, and even that wasn't all that interesting - just a revamp of Troi and her abilities. Kes just seemed too ....perfect, to me(in her personality).

I didn't see a character flaw in or a real purpose for Kes. I'm sure the writer's could have infused more life into the character, but it seemed like too little too late, imho. She had a few excellent episodes ("Before and After", "The Gift"), but just not enough.

 

If the witer's had worked much harder, they could've made Kes a better character, but it was easier just to bring in a new character and the hundreds of interesting storylines that could come with her.

 

All just imho. :)

Edited January 10, 2004 by Ace

[Shuttle 0]

I agree with most of what you said - especially "she wasn't obviously trying to adapt to her new environment"

 

But that's my point - she should have been, especially where her newly developing "powers" were concerned - could have made some really interesting stories. She should have delveloped them slowly, causing gradual problems between her and her crewmates/friends, not all of a sudden like in "The gift"

[Krell 0]

what abou alien women that appearead on Voyager like Dennarra Pell, the Vidiian woman

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

what abou alien women that appearead on Voyager like Dennarra Pell, the Vidiian woman

I think this is only for the series regulars, but I'm sure other woman from the show are up for discussion.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Kes was different from the other female cast in that she was more of a caretaker than a warrior. But she was spunky and did have a way of "waking" people up when she talked to them. I always wanted to see her and Tom get together. I loved that episode where she travelled into the future where she was married to Tom and how she remembered the experience but never could tell anyone about it. I think the series suffered from not having anyone with a "soul" after Kes left. noticed when the series started the Ocampan life span was seven years but somehow it became nine.

 

I liked Janeway and I liked how she kept personally aware of her crew - like that episode where she took the three barely noticed crewmen on a mission. She wanted to give everyone a shot. My only complaint would be that she whined a little too much - second guessing her decision about the array. Under the principles all the Starfleet personnel had agreed to she did the right thing.

 

I don't want to offend B'Elanna fans but she was maybe the hardest to warm up to because she was so angry - and I'm not a big Klingon fan anyway. Of course the anger was mostly a coverup for insecurity which got a little dangerous on a couple of occasions - like testing the new shuttle upgrades in the holodeck with the safety protocols off. I thought she was a little weak for a Klingon like the time she called off the relationship with Tom when he broke a date. A more Klingon response would be to hit him over the head and drag him home.

 

Seven of Nine - I felt that VOY ceased to be VOY and became the Seven of Nine show and tell hour. Since I liked the other characters I got tired of this very quickly. It's hard to say - if they hadn't tried to shove her down my throat I might have developed some affinity for her. As it was I resented the way she dominated the scripts and the other characters. Another complaint of Janeway was how she put up with Seven's undermining at times. I will say she really did look good in a catsuit but I need more than that to like a character. I did like the episode "Someone to Watch Over me"

 

I too liked Dr. Pell - that was another great episode (she made a second shorter appearance as well)

 

I liked the episode with Ensign Lindsay Ballard - she was spunky

[spot_kitten 0]

Thankyou Unicornhunter - you managed to sum up what I was trying to say in one fell swoop!

And I could not agree more!

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Seven on nine? *drools*

 

SHE ROCKED, APART FROM JANEWAY, SHE WAS THE BEST....no wait, maybe she was the best.... HUH

 

MISTER T

:cool: :devil: :blink:

[EFO Defiant Q 0]

well these are my favorite women of Voyager.

 

1. Janeway= Even though she's criticized by ST fans, she was still one of the best captains in star trek, considering what she went through. And she is sooo hot. I kinda hate the script writers for not getting Janeway and Chakotay together, but again there is always fan fic

 

2. B'elanna= You have to remember, she's not a full klingon! she's half human and half klingon. that's why Tom liked her so much :lol:

 

3. Kes= Her and neelix were 2 of a kind because they both were like, idiots. So she's really not one of my favorites

 

4. Seven of Nine= It was nice how they recaptured her from the collective, and she's a nice all around character. But I still say that she's a bad person. :blink: :blink:

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

3. Kes=  Her and neelix were 2 of a kind because they both were like, idiots.  So she's really not one of my favorites

 

4.  Seven of Nine=  It was nice how they recaptured her from the collective, and she's a nice all around character.  But I still say that she's a bad person.  :blink:  :blink: 

I can understand calling Neelix an idiot although I just thought he was goofy, but what was so bad about Kes? I loved her character and was very sad to see her depart. When I had heard a Borg character would be added, I thought Harry would be the one to get killed off, then he recovered and I had no idea who was gonna go. Imagine my reaction when Kes began to evolve! :lol:

 

As for Seven of Nine, why do you say she's a bad person?

[Gotabite 0]

There has really been a lot of interesting discussion here about the women of Voyager. Yes, I too agree that it was the writers that did not give enough attention to Kes's character development. Still I agree with TheUnicornHunter who saw Kes as a caretaker...Kes was indeed a very caring person. I recall the episode where she and Tom were married. It was a very interesting and moving episode.............And certainly it could have been a relationship possibility between the two had Kes remained on the show........Kes's departure was surrounded with controversy. There were many very ugly rumors pointing fingers and actually suggesting that she was forced off of the show.....Whatever the truth, it has certainly created a lot of Star Trek discussion about her character, and about the entry of Seven of NIne. Many Star Trek fans liked Kes.......many did not. Many fans liked Seven of Nine,many did not. But regardless of how I see it, Kes deserves as much merit as any of the female characters on the show.....So I am willing to say that at this point...... :) :) :) to Kes

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

On the topic of Kes:

 

I had read that wanted a Borg character on the show as a regular. UPN wanted the character to be a sexy :unsure: female. Fortunately, they found an actress who was pretty and can act. However, they could not afford 10 characters, so they were going to let one go. They planned on killing off Harry Kim, thus his 8472 cellular infection in "Scorpion, Part I". However, Garrett Wang won some popular magazine contest thing, so they decided to write Kes out instead. Now, I don't have a problem with them writing out a character in order to introduce a new character. They didn't get rid of Kes for "a sexy babe", but rather a Borg character. UPN was responsible for the Borg character becoming a "sexy babe". My problem with how this was handelled was that she only guest starred once after her departure instead of becoming a recurring character.

[vold 0]

Yeah, i agree on all accounts.

 

In my opinion, its the Borg that made her a "sexy babe" looks may be irrelevant but that won't stop them from making the best for the races they assimilated.

 

Voice inhancement, body, legs, hands, breast even :unsure:

 

its all a matter of improving the individual. The only reason other Drones don't look great when they are freed is because they don't have a proper physician to free them.

[Tina 0]

Since i am a women i liked the Women of Voyager because you could like and empithize with them

 

Seven was the blond bombshell all girls strive to be

 

Torres:: is the powerful women..Psyically

 

Janeway: powerfull mother figure

 

Kes:; The girl next door

[Ayette 0]

To the question about Seven: When I began watching VOY (in it's 6th season) I really liked Seven, a lot. Ok, she was a blond, slim, "sexy babe" in catsuit but she was an interesting character with a lot of funny remarks (just like Spock and Data). Then I joined Stockholm Trekkers in order to see more Star Trek and that's when I began to realize that it's just too much Seven! She's everywhere, especially in her first season. That's, of course, quite natural since she was a new character, but the point is that I think too many other characters suffered because of this. It feels as if the relationship Seven/Janeway was given too much time and episodes. Which is regrettable. I also think that why I don't like her has to do with the fact that she is too much a blond, sexy babe, which kind of turns me off. It feels as if there's already too many girls like that in other TV-shows and... well, I'm not like that so I can't really care about/ connect/ feel any similarity to her (if you understand what I'm trying to say here).

And when she stole Chakotay from Janeway... I could have murdered her!

 

Janeway: My big heroine! For some reason I just love her. She was actually the biggest reason for me to even start watching the show. She is tough, smart, good-looking without being some sexy babe, she cares about her crew, she is funny... I just love her. Though I agree that she is sometimes a little bit too protocol-bound. Especially when it comes to Chakotay ;D

 

B'Elanna: This is one of the things that I like with this show: B'Elanna. We have the Borg-babe, we have the strong captain AND we have the angry, violent woman. In comparison to other Klingons, maybe she's not that very aggressive but when I began watching I was really happy about the show including a woman with a temperament! Finally. And her and Seven's constant fighting.... I love it.

 

Kes: Haven't seen much about her, so I can't really form an opinion other than that I like the little I've seen. I'll just have to wait for the Voyager DVDs! *ihihihi!* Which will be realised in Sweden in April

 

*Look at my post* Wow, I didn't know I could write this much English!

Btw: Hi everyone! I'm a new member here.

[hangon 3]

I LIKED 2 WOMEN ON VOY

SEVEN OF NINE WAS NICE EYE CANDY,AND TORRES HAD THAT TO BUT

WAS ALSO AGGRESIVE I LIKE THAT IN A WOMAN.

 

P.S JANEWAY IS LIKE MY MOTHER

[welfconfed 2]

I have to admit I'm more of a TOS/TNG fan myself but I have a 11 year old niece that has voiced an interest in space exploration and hopefully this summer when she spends a few weeks with me I can get her to watch some episodes of Voyager and who knows, maybe years from now when she becomes one of the first explorers on Mars she will have Janeway,Torres, and the other strong female role models to thank