Any military people out there?

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Big advice. Take a friend with you. I was discussing this with my friend a while back, and he said the recruiter guy will do everything he can to get you to join. He said it's best to go with a budy so you're not easilly influenced. Your "buddy" is also there to keep you from making quick decissions in the event you decide to join.

 

I gotta agree with this advice, our son gave some consideration's to joining the Army before choosing college (two years ago) and the recruiter STILL calls once in a while to see if he has maybe changed his mind.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Your "buddy" is also there to keep you from making quick decissions in the event you decide to join.

Why have someone try talk you out of something you decide to do? Going alone or with someone else, if you have a weak mind it won't matter either way. My feeling though is that if someone is going to a recruiter they don't need to be "talked into" it, they already have an interest in it.

 

I wish all males in the US were required to serve at least 2 years after they turn 18 unless they have a medical or family need that would make a hardship by them being away in the service. There are a lot of adult "boys" that would benefit greatly from military service.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Your "buddy" is also there to keep you from making quick decissions in the event you decide to join.

Why have someone try talk you out of something you decide to do? Going alone or with someone else, if you have a weak mind it won't matter either way. My feeling though is that if someone is going to a recruiter they don't need to be "talked into" it, they already have an interest in it.

 

I wish all males in the US were required to serve at least 2 years after they turn 18 unless they have a medical or family need that would make a hardship by them being away in the service. There are a lot of adult "boys" that would benefit greatly from military service.

Well, some people go to the recruiter to gather information before deciding, that's why he said one should have a "buddy" so you don't get talked into joining before you've made up your mind. It's not so much about being weak minded, but having a friend keeping you from joining on impulse becuase of all the benefits and so forth. He also explained it's something you want to spend loads of time deciding, becuase once you're in, you're in. However, if you know you want to join and know what you're doing, then ya don't need a buddy. Really, it depends on your level of prepardness and reason for seeing the recruiter, I guess.

 

Here, I dissagree. While I have the utmost respect for the Military, I'll never join unless all out war breaks out like World War III or something. As for males being required to serve at least 2 years after they turn 18? What about college? Would college acceptance adapt for a 2-year-delay or something? Personally, I don't like this idea. The reason why I will never join the military is becuase I just would not bring myself to kill nor assist to kill. I'm not weak and I know it's to save lives... I just don't have it in me to estinguish life, but I have respect for those who can.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

It's not so much about being weak minded, but having a friend keeping you from joining on impulse becuase of all the benefits and so forth.  He also explained it's something you want to spend loads of time deciding, becuase once you're in, you're in.  However, if you know you want to join and know what you're doing, then ya don't need a buddy.  Really, it depends on your level of prepardness and reason for seeing the recruiter, I guess.

 

It really is a matter of a weak mind if you can go in and be talked into something you don't really want to do. I also think you have an incorrect impression of what the military is, in fact I know you have an incorrect impression.

 

When I joined the Army I must have been asked 5 times (as were all of the other people that joined at the same time I did) in the 2 months before I left for Basic Training (By the recruiting staff) if we were sure this was the decision we were happy with. Were we sure that Army life was what we wanted. We were given all of those opportunities to back out and cancel the contract.

 

When I got to Basic Training the Drill Sergeants sat us down in front of their office and asked us who didn't want to be there, and to raise our hands and we could go home. Half way through Basic Training the same thing took place and 1 person decided to leave.

 

The Army doesn't want people that aren't "right" for the job, the Army doesn't want weak minded people and if you are 100% unhappy with Army life then you will be "weak minded" when it comes to doing your Army job.

 

 

Here, I dissagree.  While I have the utmost respect for the Military, I'll never join unless all out war breaks out like World War III or something. 

 

Personally, I don't like this idea.  The reason why I will never join the military is becuase I just would not bring myself to kill nor assist to kill.  I'm not weak and I know it's to save lives...  I just don't have it in me to estinguish life, but I have respect for those who can.

 

Again you have an incorrect assumption of what military life is. You continually portray Military personnel as "killers of humans". If you are against killing then don't go into the infantry, Armor or other combat MOS (Military Occupational Specialty). I never killed a single person while I was in the Army, my brother never killed a single person while he was in. My Uncle (one of them) never killed a single person while he was in the Air Force. Most if not every single one of my friends never killed a single person while they were in the military. I'd be willing to bet that most if not all of the members of this board that were in the military (US Military or another country) never killed anyone.

 

You can go into the military and be a cook, a mechanic, a priest's assistant, a communication specialist or any number of other non-combat specialities.

 

I know it would never happen (required service) but I know it would do a world of personal good for many people. after all What's 2 years? Isn't liberty worth 2 years? Isn't the blood of all those that fell in the line of duty for our freedom worth it?

 

The question everyone should ask themselves is "How will I contribute to my country?"

 

As for males being required to serve at least 2 years after they turn 18?  What about college?  Would college acceptance adapt for a 2-year-delay or something?

 

I think College should be delayed for 2 years. You can still go to College when you are 20.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

It's not so much about being weak minded, but having a friend keeping you from joining on impulse becuase of all the benefits and so forth.  He also explained it's something you want to spend loads of time deciding, becuase once you're in, you're in.  However, if you know you want to join and know what you're doing, then ya don't need a buddy.  Really, it depends on your level of prepardness and reason for seeing the recruiter, I guess.

 

It really is a matter of a weak mind if you can go in and be talked into something you don't really want to do. I also think you have an incorrect impression of what the military is, in fact I know you have an incorrect impression.

 

When I joined the Army I must have been asked 5 times (as were all of the other people that joined at the same time I did) in the 2 months before I left for Basic Training (By the recruiting staff) if we were sure this was the decision we were happy with. Were we sure that Army life was what we wanted. We were given all of those opportunities to back out and cancel the contract.

 

When I got to Basic Training the Drill Sergeants sat us down in front of their office and asked us who didn't want to be there, and to raise our hands and we could go home. Half way through Basic Training the same thing took place and 1 person decided to leave.

 

The Army doesn't want people that aren't "right" for the job, the Army doesn't want weak minded people and if you are 100% unhappy with Army life then you will be "weak minded" when it comes to doing your Army job.

As far as having a budy when recruiting so you don't get into something you're not too sure about... my friend is in the process of joining the ARMY. It seems things have changed. He told me that the recruiters will do everything they can to convince you that "the ARMY is the best thing ever" and so forth. He also explained to me that once you sign the contract, that that's it, you're in, and can't back out, and that if you "ran off", you could face jail time or something. Now, if you know something I don't, feel free to share your thoughts. I just figured that someone who's in the process of joining would know more about joining then someone retired, no offense intended.

 

I agree with the middle part, except for:

I know it would never happen (required service) but I know it would do a world of personal good for many people. after all What's 2 years? Isn't liberty worth 2 years? Isn't the blood of all those that fell in the line of duty for our freedom worth it?

 

The question everyone should ask themselves is "How will I contribute to my country?"

It might do a world of personal good for many people, but not for me. I'd probably have a heart attack from the stress (long story). What's 2 years? A lot can happen in 2 years. In 2 years, I lost a close family member, a cat, a dog, 2 friends, a friend died, and so forth. I can't imagine returning, finding out all my loved ones have moved on or died. Is liberty worth 2 years? Yes. Isn't the blood of all those that fell in the line of duty for our freedom worth it? Yes. As far as contributing to my country? There are plenty of ways to do so, like becoming a pollitician. I just don't think military life should be forced, especially when lots of people I know would snap under the stress.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I just figured that someone who's in the process of joining would know more about joining then someone retired, no offense intended.

I was there, I was a soldier. I have friends that are currently there and are soldiers. I just called a recruiter 3 or 4 months ago about going back in in fact. I have family members that are there and are soldiers. They aren't people that assume they know what they think they know. They are there.

 

You can't always take what people "Think" things are like and assume it's set in stone correct. Even though you deny you are against the military your statements reveal that you do have a bias against it and that bias taints any views you may have about it. The fact of the matter is that if you are in the Army in the initial stages they give you an opportunity to back out. I was given that choice, my brother was given that choice, my friends (ones from the past and the present) were given that choice. The military doesn't want weak minded people, they don't want someone that will go AWOL a year down the road.

 

Now, you can either take the word of people that are and were in the military or you can take the word of someone that thinks he might have a possible intrest in thinking about the possibility of maybe joining.

 

What's 2 years? A lot can happen in 2 years. In 2 years, I lost a close family member, a cat, a dog, 2 friends, a friend died, and so forth. I can't imagine returning, finding out all my loved ones have moved on or died.

 

Just because you go in the military doesn't mean you are away in the Expanse for 2 years. You still have the ability to go home frequently. Again you have an incorrect assumption of what real military life is.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Like I said, I don't think it will come to pass but these are just a few links related to Mandatory Service in the United States, I would also be in favor of reinstating the Draft.

 

http://www.uwire.com/content/topnews021302003.html

 

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/rangel_cal...ilitary_service

 

http://www.seadoc.net/sd/archives/individu...ary_service.php

[bearded ape 0]

i want to go into the army national guard when i am seventeen, then when they help me through clledge go into ROTC and then go full time in the army. i also want to try and get into the army rangers.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry. If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

[Tal 0]

One of my freinds has been thinking about it as well so we are both going to go down together.

 

 

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

OK, I over reacted, but if it became "mandatory", well, they can't force you to be in the military. What's next, security cameras in our homes?

[A l t e r E g o 9]

What's next, security cameras in our homes?

As a matter of possibility, yes.

 

Not to go off topic but if I may paraphrase something Jesus said …things whispered in bedrooms will be shouted on rooftops

 

This imo, suggests the days are coming when all personal privacies will be a thing of the past. I'm not saying it will happen in our lifetimes but I believe it will happen eventually.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

What's next, security cameras in our homes?

As a matter of possibility, yes.

 

Not to go off topic but if I may paraphrase something Jesus said …things whispered in bedrooms will be shouted on rooftops

 

This imo, suggests the days are coming when all personal privacies will be a thing of the past. I'm not saying it will happen in our lifetimes but I believe it will happen eventually.

I've allways believed these things would happen too... I just hoped it'd be after I died.

[bearded ape 0]

if your gonna live in the country than you should be willing to fight for it. i think that the draft being mandatory would be a great thing. if they did it i hope i would have time to become an officer and get a bigger pay check, but i would draft if i was asked to.

[Tattoo 0]

You're dad is Hawkeye Pierce?

No, he was a Clerk. He was a Sargent by the time he left

[VaBeachGuy 12]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

OK, I over reacted, but if it became "mandatory", well, they can't force you to be in the military. What's next, security cameras in our homes?

The draft wasn't done away with until 1975 (I think it was '75) before that if you were drafted then mandatory service was required. It didn't matter who you were either, Elvis Presley was drafted at the hight of his career in 1958. He served 2 years, got out in 1960 and resumed his life as the King of Rock N Roll. John F. Kennedy was drafted in the late 1930's or very early 1940's.

 

I believe that many of the generation born after 1975 believe that our freedom is an entitlement, something that's free. It's not, it's paid for every single hour of every single day of every single week of every single month. It's paid for by people serving in the Military, not just dying or killing but it's paid for by the CQ Clerk that's sitting his watch on a 24 hour shift. It's paid for by the Motor Pool mechanic that fixes Duce and a Half's and HMMWV ("Humvee" or "Hummer" to civilians, HMMWV stands for "Highly Mobile Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle").

 

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it mandatory, I'd leave the country and not return.

 

I know you said you over reacted and I can understand that happening, but the initial statement saddens me. I can only hope that people feeling that way would be greatly in the minority. I can't even express the many things that that kind of statement says to me, it just saddens me.

[ddillard 2]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

OK, I over reacted, but if it became "mandatory", well, they can't force you to be in the military. What's next, security cameras in our homes?

They can force you to be in the military if the draft is reinstated. If the draft is in effect and you are drafted and you refuse to serve you will be jailed. The draft gives the governement the right to insure that the number of military personel needed to protect our freedom is available.

 

Myself I would have loved to be able to serve my country in the military, but unfortunately I am denied military service due to my eyesight.

[Tattoo 0]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

OK, I over reacted, but if it became "mandatory", well, they can't force you to be in the military. What's next, security cameras in our homes?

They can force you to be in the military if the draft is reinstated. If the draft is in effect and you are drafted and you refuse to serve you will be jailed. The draft gives the governement the right to insure that the number of military personel needed to protect our freedom is available.

 

Myself I would have loved to be able to serve my country in the military, but unfortunately I am denied military service due to my eyesight.

Very true. Captain the Military is great.

[Batok 0]

You're dad is Hawkeye Pierce?

No, he was a Clerk. He was a Sargent by the time he left

He can't be Radar, I'm Radar.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

If there's a draft, well, I'd be very angry.  If they made it manditory, I'd leave the country and not return.

OK, I over reacted, but if it became "mandatory", well, they can't force you to be in the military. What's next, security cameras in our homes?

They can force you to be in the military if the draft is reinstated. If the draft is in effect and you are drafted and you refuse to serve you will be jailed. The draft gives the governement the right to insure that the number of military personel needed to protect our freedom is available.

 

Myself I would have loved to be able to serve my country in the military, but unfortunately I am denied military service due to my eyesight.

Sorry, Ddillard, I was referring to VBG's "all men have to serve 2 years when they turn 18" idea. Fortunately, I have an unidentified vision problem that makes it very difficult to see in the dark, so that might rule me out.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Sorry, Ddillard, I was referring to VBG's "all men have to serve 2 years when they turn 18" idea.  Fortunately, I have an unidentified vision problem that makes it very difficult to see in the dark, so that might rule me out.

You should go back and read what I said, take note that there are exceptions that wouldn't be required to serve.

 

I wish all males in the US were required to serve at least 2 years after they turn 18 unless they have a medical or family need that would make a hardship by them being away in the service. There are a lot of adult "boys" that would benefit greatly from military service.

 

But some one wouldn't be excused from service just because they "don't like big nasty guns".

 

And this isn't "my idea". This was introduced as a bill before Congress in 2002 by Rep. Charles Rangel. Other countries already use this practice, basically what I'd like to see is the Draft reinstated. If your number comes up you serve in the military. If you can't pass the physical then you are 4F, if you are a sole surviving son and your family is dependant on you to provide then maybe otherwise, you're called you go.

 

From another link I posted:

 

In a move that could redirect high school graduates from hitting the college books to hitting military targets for the 2004 freshman class, one House representative is calling on America's youth to relearn the meaning of national unity and obligation to the country.

 

The bill, House Resolution 3598 proposed by Representative Nick Smith, would be "phased in" over 10 years and would require all male high school graduates to partake in "boot camp," history/international relations classes and volunteer in national service programs for at least six months starting in 2004.

[Batok 0]

The United States has a large population of young men at the age of eighteen. The American Army is already large.

 

Drafting, should only be used in time of need, in time of full out war.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

The United States has a large population of young men at the age of eighteen. The American Army is already large.

 

Drafting, should only be used in time of need, in time of full out war.

Agreed.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

The United States has a large population of young men at the age of eighteen. The American Army is already large.

 

Drafting, should only be used in time of need, in time of full out war.

Agreed.

THe Army isn't as large as you might think it is. The Clinton administration (which opposed the military) cut it drastically. We need to bring it back to the level it was at in 1990.

 

Besides, there's more reasons to reinstate a draft other then being at war. As Rep Rengal said (and I am normally 99% opposed to anything he says) if we have a fair showing of all of societies families in the military, from Presidential children to Congressional Children to leaders of industries children then war won't be as easy an option to pick.

 

I personally think that the current crop (a large portion anyway) of people between 17 and 24 are "soft" and NEED military service to make them grow up, to make them productive. They may cry and say they (the Government) has no right to force them into the military but if the draft was reinstated (which I don't think it will be) then they WOULD have the right.

 

You will find that most of opposition to this kind of idea will come from people that couldn't "hack it" in the military and they fear something they don't understand. Not all would be opposed for those reasons mind you, but a large part of them would be.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

The United States has a large population of young men at the age of eighteen. The American Army is already large.

 

Drafting, should only be used in time of need, in time of full out war.

Agreed.

THe Army isn't as large as you might think it is. The Clinton administration (which opposed the military) cut it drastically. We need to bring it back to the level it was at in 1990.

 

Besides, there's more reasons to reinstate a draft other then being at war. As Rep Rengal said (and I am normally 99% opposed to anything he says) if we have a fair showing of all of societies families in the military, from Presidential children to Congressional Children to leaders of industries children then war won't be as easy an option to pick.

 

I personally think that the current crop (a large portion anyway) of people between 17 and 24 are "soft" and NEED military service to make them grow up, to make them productive. They may cry and say they (the Government) has no right to force them into the military but if the draft was reinstated (which I don't think it will be) then they WOULD have the right.

 

You will find that most of opposition to this kind of idea will come from people that couldn't "hack it" in the military and they fear something they don't understand. Not all would be opposed for those reasons mind you, but a large part of them would be.

Then how come we have so many soldiers in Iraq and arround the world and still a large surplus here in the US?

 

With all the technological and biological weapons out there, having mass armies may not be as effective as people think.

 

People between 17 & 24 may be soft, but we are free to be as soft as we want to be. It is our right. You may "think" they need military service, but that is up to the individual or national security (like if there were a major war). I agree, the Government has no right to force people into the military unless there is a draft, and there is no need for a draft unless we become involved in a major war. Right now, we are not in a major war, so I do not believe we need a draft, especially with all the young men joining all the time.

 

Most people I know who oppose the draft, outside of major war, are usually conservative patriates with high values on personal rights and freedoms. You say it's fear, I say it's exercising freedom.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

The United States has a large population of young men at the age of eighteen. The American Army is already large.

 

Drafting, should only be used in time of need, in time of full out war.

Agreed.

THe Army isn't as large as you might think it is. The Clinton administration (which opposed the military) cut it drastically. We need to bring it back to the level it was at in 1990.

 

Besides, there's more reasons to reinstate a draft other then being at war. As Rep Rengal said (and I am normally 99% opposed to anything he says) if we have a fair showing of all of societies families in the military, from Presidential children to Congressional Children to leaders of industries children then war won't be as easy an option to pick.

 

I personally think that the current crop (a large portion anyway) of people between 17 and 24 are "soft" and NEED military service to make them grow up, to make them productive. They may cry and say they (the Government) has no right to force them into the military but if the draft was reinstated (which I don't think it will be) then they WOULD have the right.

 

You will find that most of opposition to this kind of idea will come from people that couldn't "hack it" in the military and they fear something they don't understand. Not all would be opposed for those reasons mind you, but a large part of them would be.

Then how come we have so many soldiers in Iraq and arround the world and still a large surplus here in the US?

 

With all the technological and biological weapons out there, having mass armies may not be as effective as people think.

 

People between 17 & 24 may be soft, but we are free to be as soft as we want to be. It is our right. You may "think" they need military service, but that is up to the individual or national security (like if there were a major war). I agree, the Government has no right to force people into the military unless there is a draft, and there is no need for a draft unless we become involved in a major war. Right now, we are not in a major war, so I do not believe we need a draft, especially with all the young men joining all the time.

 

Most people I know who oppose the draft, outside of major war, are usually conservative patriates with high values on personal rights and freedoms. You say it's fear, I say it's exercising freedom.

The only people I see that oppose it are people that oppose the Military in general. It's not an issue that will come to fruition, so you need not worry. BUt I suppose the government was violating Elvis' rights in 1958 when they drafted him? What major (or minor) war were we in then?

 

Again, it's your right to oppose the military. It's your right to oppose military service. It would even be your right to dodge a draft and leave the country if needed, but remember why you have those rights and who gave them to you. You can choose to answer this if you wish but you don't have to. Did you register for selective services when you turned 18?

 

If so then you registered for the draft. If not then you are in violatin of the law.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I don't oppose the military, I only oppose the draft.

[Big_Steve 0]

Most people I know who oppose the draft, outside of major war, are usually conservative patriates with high values on personal rights and freedoms.  You say it's fear, I say it's exercising freedom.

But that freedom was bought and paid for by the blood of men (and women) who fell in foreign wars ... on your behalf. And a great many of them were drafted I'm sure, and I'm sure that some of them didn't like it, but did their duty for their country.

 

Sorry, I wasn't going to comment on this thread but couldn't help myself.

Edited November 26, 2003 by Big_Steve

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Most people I know who oppose the draft, outside of major war, are usually conservative patriates with high values on personal rights and freedoms.  You say it's fear, I say it's exercising freedom.

But that freedom was bought and paid for by the blood of men (and women) who fell in foreign wars ... on your behalf. And a great many of them were drafted I'm sure, and I'm sure that some of the didn't like it, but did their duty for their country.

 

Sorry, I wasn't going to comment on this thread but coldn't help myself.

Yes, but my point is, with the size of our military, it is no longer neccessary. As I said, if we are involved in all out war, then I agree with a draft as it would be neccessary to ensure our survival and freedom. However, to draft people into the military to build character development? This I fully disagree with. People have the right to bad character.

[Admiral Kirk 1]

If US foriegn policy keeps going down the track it has a draft will be neccessary. Our forces are stretched rather thin all over the globe and a great many of our combat units are in Iraq. This is causing a gret deal of stress and strain on the troops in the field becuse their tours of duty are longer. Do I like the thought of compulsory service? Heck no. Should the manpower be made available when needed? Yes! My real argument is that many past wars (WWII) there was more of a concensus or certainty that we were fighting the good fight and that we all must play a part. I don't see that nowadays. The general populace seems to question Uncle Sam's motives now more than ever which was a bit differnt 60 years ago. If the drart was reinstated it would only be in times of dire neccessity because if not there would be hell to pay.

 

As for anyone going in the service right now I applaud you because i think you are brave in soo many ways. I myself (USAF) my father and several relatives all served in the US armed forces at one time or the other and all I have to say is that your time in the military is really what you make of it. You may be sent places you may not want to go but a positive attitude plays a big part in BT and in the field. I've asked my self recently if I could go back would I? At present I'm leaning in the going back direction.

Edited November 26, 2003 by Admiral Kirk