Nudity in ENT?

[removed 0]

while the nudity in the xindi was unnecessary, they did give us a very comical scene with t'pol and trip, and this may just be the beginning of a relationship in the works.

 

and everything is covered up. why should it not be allowed to show on trek, when it never shows anything considered 'private'

[mj 7]

Click for Spoiler:

Well, I think the question is, that since the scene could have been just as clever and humerous if they left their very thin shirts on, and the scene offends some people, why not do the scene with their shirts on? The problem with the partial nudity is that it does offend some, it is not necessary to communicate the beginnings of a relationship, and it unnecessarily excludes fans who enjoy the stories but are offended by the nudity. Or by the semi-nudity, or the hint of nudity. Also men and women topless (or semi-topless) are not equally provocative.

 

It would be a small sacrifice to have them leave their shirts on for that scene, and not drive away a few of the more morally conservative fans. Everyone always says to not watch it if they are offended. But as they put more and more unnecessary scenes into more and more programs, they leave less and less for those whose values are more strict to watch. There is plenty of porn, semi-porn, and hint of porn for those whose tastes are for the risque.

 

Is it too much to ask that that a little restraint be exercised, and some of these teasing scenes be ommitted?

 

Now for me, I am a little older than many people here, and older than CJLP, and it will take a little more than what was in this show to drive me away from Star Trek. But I will abandon new Star Trek, if it continues to decline, and just stick to reruns of the old series. Star Trek has always had programs that include more adult themes. But their track record has been to handle those episodes in such a way that they could be broadly watched.

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

I can't believe we're even having this conversation. Just put in in perspective, allright? Why is it not OK to show a little sexuality but OK to show people getting killed? You're saying you don't want to see that kind of thing but it's OK to show a murder or death in combat? Please explain.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I can't believe we're even having this conversation.  Just put in in perspective, allright?  Why is it not OK to show a little sexuality but OK to show people getting killed?  You're saying you don't want to see that kind of thing but it's OK to show a murder or death in combat?  Please explain.

You raise a valid point - that tv often trivializes the sanctity (or value) of life.

 

IMO, one difference I can see is what thoughts or ideas the scene inspires. Seeing someone killed either happens so quickly I don't react or I may feel sympathy.

 

Now, bare skin tends to have a major effect on thoughts or desires (depending on the viewer) and some viewers like to keep these thoughts in their proper situation or setting.

 

However, I don't gather that the above is the reason for some people's objection.

 

As mentioned in an earlier post I do believe titillation is the primary reason they include these scenes and as many have stated - it isn't necessary to the plot. I also agree why drive away viewers when you need them.

 

Click for Spoiler:

I totally felt T'Pol's - Trips shirtless performance was unnecessary to the scene and I think it changed the emphasis from Trip's stubbornness which has some real potential to a "teaser". Overall the scene was funny but IMO this made it less about character and more about hormones which lacks the depth of character exploration

[Red Shirt Volunteer 0]

Yes, I agree that any such elements should be relevant to the plot. On the other hand, how one person defines relevant might differ from another. Take Hoshi's scene, for example; to me, it was nothing more than a little tongue-in-cheek humour meant to get a rise out of the audience. Unfortunately, some people might have gotten another kind of rise out of it.

 

And you're right that the impression a scene leaves may be more critical than the actual content, which brings up a further question about why we have, as an audience, become so desensitised to seeing a death on the screen. The writers have to think about how such scenes, whether they be sexual or violent, contribute to the plot and what response they will generate instead of throwing them in to get a reaction. At the same time, I don't think the scenes have been offensive, just pointless at times.

[Stardreamer 1]

I can't believe we're even having this conversation.

That's exactly the point I asked myself when I first read the title of the thread. First I thought CJLP was just kidding. I really do not mean this as an offence.

But for me as an European female this strict feeling of morality is hard to understand.

 

Topless women are so common at south European beaches (unfortunately at any age) and I do not know anyone who cares about it. I always thought men are pleased by this view - but now I've learnt there are exceptions.

 

Since the attitute to what can be shown of the human body in TV changed, I'm afraid CJLP you have to learn to live with it or your screen will be more often dark in the future than now - or you have to watch old movies.

 

In ENT there are so less scenes with - for you - too much skin (you only found 2 in 2 whole seasons) hopefully you learn to live with it. It would be a pity if you stopped watching it.

 

I'm curious about your reply to Red Shirt Volonteer. As to me brutality on screen has a much more negative influence on a society than naked female breasts.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

But for me as an European  female this strict feeling of morality is hard to understand.

 

Topless women are so common at south European beaches (unfortunately at any age) and I do not know anyone who cares about it. I always thought men are pleased by this view - but now I've learnt there are exceptions.

I am glad you said this, I mentioned it earlier that in Europe the Breast is not seen as a sexual object and it is common to go to beaches that are topless.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I had forgotten about that gratuitous boob scene when I voted on VBG's poll, I am going to go re-rate the episode based on that totally unnecessary scene.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well, I'm a Christian-Pentacostal. Just about every Christian I know would agree with me here. It's more grounded in faith than anything. Besides, if I were watching this episode with my friend, Justin, and didn't know how the Trip/T'Pol scene would play out, well... I'd be awefully embarrased. Besides, the only nudity I intend to see is that of my future wife.

[KayTroi 0]

What can you do? Sex sells. The way the show is progessing you may see more NUDE scenes before the season is done.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Yes, but isn't nudity banned from network/broadcast TV?

 

Anywho, just becuase sex sells, does't mean it's right. Drugs sell, should we let that go too?

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Yes, but isn't nudity banned from network/broadcast TV?

 

Right there captain, you just proved what has been seen on ENT is NOT nudity, nudity IS BANNED from network/broadcast tv.

[MoulinRouge 0]

Color me liberal. I enjoyed the massage scene and I usually don't enjoy the contrived "sexual" situations on ENT. The difference is that Allen Kroeker didn't direct the scene as if it were anything but funny and that made the difference. Plus, let us face it. Connor and Jolene have a spark. They rock together. WHAT were TPTB thinking trying to push her character off on Archer? I'm not necessarily campaigning for a romance here but these two characters deserve much more screen time together. That B&B didn't give it to them in season two shows how clueless they were.

[sea trooper 0]

Its all good fun. For my first Episode of Enterprise, it was a good one. But not just because of the nudity. Just because they show a little skin doesn't really say its nudity. Cirtain parts would be concidered nudity, but the parts they showed, were not nudity. It would be just like one of the other guys bareing his chest.

[Klingonmike 0]

Yes, but isn't nudity banned from network/broadcast TV?

You see,I've been telling you there is no nudity on Enterprise,if it was then the show would be banned! I'm glad you cleared that up CJLP.

[CaptQuick 0]

I'm adding my support for what Picard said.

Nudity, imho, is the showing of the organs which are usually, or ought to be, kept private (whether in part or in full). Yes, the definition of nudity that the media uses is quite different. An unfortunate fact is that words can be twisted over time (just look at what "gay" means now as opposed to what it used to mean. .

As for europeans, I can't answer for the morals of others, and I seriously doubt every european considers the breast a nonsexual object (just ask the Pope).

Prudish, indeed? Why must the "tolerant" generation heap abuse on the beliefs of the former generation?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

All this discussion about bare breasts...

Click for Spoiler:

can you guys honestly say that seeing T'Pol with her arms crossed over her bare chest did nothing for you...no physiological reaction whatsover? None of you? I don't know whether to be amazed or sad for you.

 

 

Now, the question regarding T'Pols old uniform. To me it was the greatest lack of logic I have ever seen. When I was a teenager (long time ago...) I got the little lecture and what turns boys on...and visual was on top of the list. Don't you think a Vulcan scientist would be knowledgeable about human physiology? And don't you think a species so private regarding "intimate matters" would be moritified at the prospect of exciting her human male associates. The reason TPTB put her in the catsuit (and seven before her) was to tap into sexual interest. IMO, I think the new look will help her develop as a character.

 

Click for Spoiler:

Now, I could see a Denoblian female or Klingon etc taking off her top in front of Cmdr Tucker but it doesn't seem to fit with the Vulcan character. Not even the human females I know would do that. And why did she hold her arms across her chest - he was behind her?

 

 

Sex sells? Maybe TPTB don't realize how much it also costs. I read about a company that would take your previously purchased videos and edit them to a family friendly version. A lot of people used this service but the media companies started complaining about artistic merit....which to me is ridiculous. All Hollywood cares about is making money so why don't they offer edited versions....they might be surprised to learn what they're missing in terms of viewers.

 

One closing point. Just because lack of morality is popular - that doesn't mean it is superior. Isn't it interesting that we can all "respect" a Vulcan that chooses to meditate to master emotions; but belittle a human that wants to avoid unsettling stimuli in his/her personal quest for inner mastery.

Edited September 12, 2003 by TheUnicornHunter

[Goose 0]

Stardate:213696.9

 

 

 

 

Well this is a very interesting discussion isnt it??Time to through my two cents in.

 

I see nothing wrong with the "nude"(notice the quotations)scenes in Ent.That is how modern tv is.Sex sells plain and simple.T'Pol and Hoshi(the women in question)are very very very sexy(i dont care who you are there is no way you can disagree with me and if u do are are flat lying.Even a gay guy would agree with me)so if they want they should be showing a little skin.Star Trek has been doing that since it began.7 of 9 was a good example of this.We never saw much skin but i cant count how many times i say her nipples through that tight suit(call me perverted all you want but im a guy so leave me alone).

 

CJLP you say that IYO that a mans chest is not partail nudity.How do u know that??????Your guy not a girl so u have no say in that regard as neither do i.I imagine a "hot" guys bare chest turns girls on just as easily as breasts turn us on(ladies correct me if im wrong)so i think it goes both ways.If they want to show a dudes chest to appese girls fine by me ill just look at something else(or try to)That is what you should do.

 

Also T'pols partial tit shot wasnt the only thing "sexually suggestive"about that scene.Anybody notice that moan?? :) That is not a "Oh this massage feels good"moan thats a "damn your turning me on lets turn off the lights and lock the door"moan IMHO.I say RIGHT ON TRIP YOU LUCKY SOB!!!!

 

Now if that scene was all "sexaul" and nothing else just for the sake of showing some skin then i would have had a problem with it but it wasnt.It was laso humorous and i dont know about you but i laughed my A$$ off at that scene!!! :)

 

In conclusion to my little speech CJLP if you dont like it then thats what the little button on the remote lables"Off" is for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 12, 2003 by geranimo

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Stardate:213696.9

 

 

 

 

I see nothing wrong with the "nude"(notice the quotations)scenes in Ent.That is how modern tv is.Sex sells plain and simple.T'Pol and Hoshi(the women in question)are very very very sexy(i dont care who you are there is no way you can disagree with me and if u do are are flat lying.Even a gay guy would agree with me)so if they want they should be showing a little skin.Star Trek has been doing that since it began.7 of 9 was a good example of this.We never saw much skin but i cant count how many times i say her nipples through that tight suit(call me perverted all you want but im a guy so leave me alone).

Sex may sell plain and simple, but that doesn't mean it's ethical, nor doesn't it mean that people should "accept" it if they believe it shouldn't be on TV. Me, if it's a once in a blue moon thing, I just look away, other wise I stop watching. Hopefully in ENT, it will be rare enough that I don't have to stop watching. There's a nude scene in SG-1's pilot, but other than that, it's a clean show. I don't let a bad scene ruin a series unless it's a regular thing.

 

I'm sorry, but there's nothing sexy, as you so put it, about T'Pol nor Hoshi. While I do find Hoshi to be asthetically pleasing, with me liking foreign women, I just don't find her to be attractive.

(i dont care who you are there is no way you can disagree with me and if u do are are flat lying.Even a gay guy would agree with me)

Sorry, but not everyone thinks they are attractive like you, people can actually think differently about what's attractive and what's not.

 

Hate to tell you, but I'm a mega VOY fan, and I never once saw her nipples. Her suit was too thick for such detail to show, thank goodness. I believe you imagined it.

[Mike 5]

I don't know what all the commotion is on this thread..I still haven't seen any nudity on Enterprise or any other Star Trek show...And I happen to like the Trip/T'Pol scene..I thought it was well done and I did find it humorous..What is wrong with showing a little skin now and then..Did anybody object to Trip taking off his shirt?..Oh, that's OK..But when a female shows some skin you all get yourself so worked up..Oh get over it will you..What's the big deal?..

 

Just my opinion..I'm untitled to my opinion just as much as CJLP or anybody else..

[Mike 5]

I'm sorry, but there's nothing sexy, as you so put it, about T'Pol nor Hoshi.  While I do find Hoshi to be asthetically pleasing, with me liking foreign women, I just don't find her to be attractive.

(i dont care who you are there is no way you can disagree with me and if u do are are flat lying.Even a gay guy would agree with me)

Sorry, but not everyone thinks they are attractive like you, people can actually think differently about what's attractive and what's not.

 

So CJLP what do you find attractive?..How can you say that T'Pol and Hoshi are not attractive?..Let's hear it..There have been many attractive females on Star Trek over the past 37 years..Who do you find attractive?...

 

Just curious...

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I have yet to find anyone attractive, I consider this a blessing as I plan to have a wife and children, when the time is right, I'll meet the right girl, and the attraction will be there.

 

Untill then, I just use the terms "asthetically pleasing".

 

With that said, T'Pol is thin, but her breasts are way too large for my taste, and her facial structure doesn't do anything for me, neither does her collegin-filled lips. I prefer a natural-looking female, not some super model.

 

I usually find foreign females to be interresting, especiall asian women. Hoshi's asthetically pleasing, but not attractive. So far, the closest I've come to finding "attractive" is Beverly Crusher, Ezri Dax, Kes, and the Borg Queen.

[Goose 0]

Stardate:213699.9

 

 

Hate to tell you, but I'm a mega VOY fan, and I never once saw her nipples. Her suit was too thick for such detail to show, thank goodness. I believe you imagined it.

 

Ehhh i dont know.Hell you might be right.

 

 

asthetically pleasing

 

 

Alright SPOCK So in lamen terms you find thier Physical Appearance pleasing, also known as sexy

[Klingonmike 0]

asthetically pleasing

 

 

Alright SPOCK So in lamen terms you find thier Physical Appearance pleasing, also known as sexy[/glow]

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Stardate:213699.9

 

 

asthetically pleasing

 

 

Alright SPOCK So in lamen terms you find thier Physical Appearance pleasing, also known as sexy

That's not the same thing. If I think my cat, a female, looks pretty or that the graphics on a DVD looks cool, does that mean they're sexy? Um, no. Thus, one's physical appearance being pleasing does not translate to being sexy. One must either be sexually arroused or having some form of sexually related thoughts in order to think one sexy.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

To be honest the incidents mentioned did not bother me when I saw them as I have seen much more in real life.

 

Actually, I would say that I have seen more naked flesh in holiday television programmes with women in bikinis on the beach. I think that we have to remember that with such a visual form of the media that many images are dependant on audience readership, hence any sexual connotations source from the individual viewer.

Edited September 14, 2003 by TransporterMalfunction

[Kyalia 0]

Why not? It's not as if it was full-frontal or porn or anything.

[ambassador_klaatu 0]

You terrans and your funny ideas about nudity and sex!I find them so amusing at times.There is nothing wrong with the naked humanoid form.Truly,there can be no more wonderous a design in all of nature!Take a lesson from the Deltans or the Betazoids,and "loosen up" as you say.I find Hoshi Sato to be an exquisite example of terran female beauty,and was not in the least offended.

[Goose 0]

Stardate:213699.9

 

 

asthetically pleasing

 

 

Alright SPOCK So in lamen terms you find thier Physical Appearance pleasing, also known as sexy

That's not the same thing. If I think my cat, a female, looks pretty or that the graphics on a DVD looks cool, does that mean they're sexy? Um, no. Thus, one's physical appearance being pleasing does not translate to being sexy. One must either be sexually arroused or having some form of sexually related thoughts in order to think one sexy.

Stardate:213704.3

 

 

 

Whatever im done arguing with you on the subject.I burned ya good so im going out on a high note

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Stardate:213699.9

 

 

asthetically pleasing

 

 

Alright SPOCK So in lamen terms you find thier Physical Appearance pleasing, also known as sexy

That's not the same thing. If I think my cat, a female, looks pretty or that the graphics on a DVD looks cool, does that mean they're sexy? Um, no. Thus, one's physical appearance being pleasing does not translate to being sexy. One must either be sexually arroused or having some form of sexually related thoughts in order to think one sexy.

Stardate:213704.3

 

 

 

Whatever im done arguing with you on the subject.I burned ya good so im going out on a high note

You didn't burn anyone, you just have no idea what you're talking about. :)