prometheus 0 Posted October 6, 2005 I have to say that i love Kai Winn played by the marvellous Ms Fletcher. I think she is such a 3 dimensional character. Like a lot of characters on DS9 she is not has many facets. No one on DS9 was 'bad' or 'good'. They all had dark sides a s well as good sides. Dukat, Garak, Martok, were all villanous but with a hint of honour and a sense of goodness to them. Even the evil founders had a pitiful reason to hate the solids. And that is the way it is in real life. No one is just bad or good. It's not that black or white. Sisko was bad in that he induced the Romulans to enter the war with a forged reason. Bashir had his dark side, as did Kira. But Kai Winn was my favourite. Manipulative, cowardice, egotistical, misguided. She was the woman who had given all to the Profits and could never be rewarded enough. In 'The Reckoning' Click For Spoiler she plays on Sisko's words, twisting events and pulling her political muscle to get one over on the man, the Human man, she is incredibly jealous of. Sisko the Emissary. She bottles out towards the end of the great battle between the Pah Wraith and the Wormhole alien out of fear for her own life as the station is heaving under the pressure of the battle. I loved the way she slimed her way too the top on the shoulders of others. And how she is, in effect, seduced by 'the Devil' and falls to new depths. In the end Click For Spoiler she attones for her sins and sees that it is too late for her, and acts in one final act of self sacrifice that perhaps will take her to the celestial temple in her afterlife... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mj 7 Posted October 6, 2005 A lot of comments have been made about Winn in the thread entitled " Kai Opaka". Quoting myself from that thread, Well, I do not have such strong feelings about Winn. But I do think she added an element of realism. There were two big centers of power on Bajor, the church and the government. People who want power put on whatever cloak they need to wear to gain it. The Christian Bible long ago warned of wolves in the fold. It is the same here. I think the writers intended to have Kai Winn all along, but in order to not be seen as attacking people of faith, had Kai Opaka and Vedic Berial ( I hope I am spelling these names right) as devoted, true leaders in the faith, before Kai Winn was allowed to ascend to power. In the end she was revealed to be not a true follower, but the viewers of DS9 did not misconstrue the Bajoran faith as being twisted and corrupt because their leader was. I also admired how Kira handled Kai Winn. On the one hand Kira was not fooled by Winn's treachery and schemes. On the other hand she did her best to show respect to the Kai, to the person holding the office. Of course some times Kira did have to openly defy her, but many times she held her tongue, and worked with her as best she could. Winn was another well developed DS9 character. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sea trooper 0 Posted October 6, 2005 I still think she is the best villain. Even better than Dukat. Click For Spoiler If you look at it she did defeat Dukat. Until he came back and torched her. But she still killed him first! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted October 6, 2005 My view has always been the opposite, her's was the one character that I've always wished they had written out. There were some interesting stories with her in them but overall I think they would have been fine without her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 0 Posted October 6, 2005 I have to say I didn't like the character in the slightest. I just don't think she had any redeeming features. I didn't see her as an enjoyable villan either, there was no sense of humour with her, no real quips, she didn't even seem that intelligent just sly and sinister. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Data 0 Posted October 13, 2005 I really liked Kai Opaka. I always wished she lasted longer than a few episodes. Winn was a just a (I'm trying to say a bad word but can't) that did not deserve the job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted October 13, 2005 I thought she was incredible character, perhaps one of the most enjoyable non-regulars in all of Trek. Sure, she was an awful human being most of the time, but Louise Fletcher gave her so much depth and realism. I loved how she could wring every last drop of condescension out of something as simple as "Bless you my child." Her back-and-forth with Kira was always entertaining. I guess I loved to hate her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted October 15, 2005 One of the things that always irrated me about her was that they (the writers) were using her to do things that the First Minister should have been doing, not the religious leader. I understand why they wrote her character the way they did but I didn't like it at all. I think it would have been a lot better to keep Opaca and make the First Minister the "baddie". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 1 Posted October 15, 2005 Sure, she was an awful human being most of the time. 357817[/snapback] Uh, yeah, she was Bajoran but I get what you're saying. I really hated her too. She wasn't as evil as Dukat but she wasn't far off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Itchygomba69 0 Posted October 15, 2005 My view has always been the opposite, her's was the one character that I've always wished they had written out. There were some interesting stories with her in them but overall I think they would have been fine without her. 356601[/snapback] I agree with you 100% she as very useless IMO storyline wise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
athena28 2 Posted October 16, 2005 I enjoyed her. A richly developed character who tweaked Kira's nose (sorry B) ) out of joint - just enough. I didn't love the ending w/her & Dukat, tho. I'm not sure that really was what she would've done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Sure, she was an awful human being most of the time. 357817[/snapback] Uh, yeah, she was Bajoran but I get what you're saying. I really hated her too. She wasn't as evil as Dukat but she wasn't far off. 358280[/snapback] "Human Being" = humanoid. Bajorans = humanoid. :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack_Bauer 1 Posted October 16, 2005 Sure, she was an awful human being most of the time. 357817[/snapback] Uh, yeah, she was Bajoran but I get what you're saying. I really hated her too. She wasn't as evil as Dukat but she wasn't far off. 358280[/snapback] "Human Being" = humanoid. Bajorans = humanoid. :P 358330[/snapback] Touche But back on topic, I hate Kai Winn. Corrupt from the get go when she tried to assassinate Bariel. After that all downhill, almost causing a civil war and then ultimately betraying her people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anslem1701 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Talk about a huge shade of grey, you could tell in the beginning that they wanted her to be one of the main vilains, but there were so many times she kept teetering towards good. I think the writers gave her the mentality to want to do well, to try to help Bajor the best she could, but her nature won out every time. I think her best acting was during that last arch when they started doing some strange things with her. I'm still not sure how I feel about her relationship with Anjel (sp?) - Dukat - but when she found out about the Pah Wraiths' plans for her, she really wanted to turn around, but she just couldn't let go of power. She had to be in power, in her own mind, and no matter how many times you feel bad for her not being able to hear the Prophets, you just have to love the fact that she was doomed from the very first time we saw her... How dare her do that to Bareil! She killed him! :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Matt 0 Posted October 16, 2005 When exactly was she "teetering towards good"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dark Reality 0 Posted October 16, 2005 I can sort of understand Kai Winn. She was basically an empty person who used the Bajoran faith as a crutch. My evil stepmother (and that's no exxageration) is the same way with Christianity. Not all Christians use their faith as a crutch, or an excuse, but this woman did, and it almost felt like Kai Winn was modeled after her, or people like her. It's truly scary that there are so many people in the world like that for the Trek producers to base Winn on. As a villain, I kind of like her. She was annoying at first, but it became fun to see her pitted against the station, and the good Bajorans. I can't wait to see what happens to her by the end of the series. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted October 17, 2005 When exactly was she "teetering towards good"? 358357[/snapback] I don't think she ever was, I think she would pretend to be "good" when it served her purposes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam The Smuggler 1 Posted October 18, 2005 (edited) When exactly was she "teetering towards good"? 358357[/snapback] I don't think she ever was, I think she would pretend to be "good" when it served her purposes. 358581[/snapback] I Dunno...I Think She Really Tried To Do Some Real Good Click For Spoiler Just Before Dukat Turned Her Into A Pile Ashes. :P Edited October 18, 2005 by VaBeachGuy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trekfan 0 Posted October 20, 2005 I didn't like her at all. I just felt like throwing something at the tv screen whenever an episode with her. She's evil lol :lol: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam The Smuggler 1 Posted October 20, 2005 Yeah, I Probably Should Have Remembered To Do That, VBG,lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites