What is life?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Several episodes of the different series have asked the question what is life; particularly memorable was TNG's the Measure of a Man but TNG, VOY and DS9 gave us some great holodeck lifeforms - including the EMH. They have also given us their concept of what human life is whether they realize it or not. In TOS, Kirk had his body switched with Dr. Janice Lester, persons were transferred to android bodies in another episode. Three TNG crewmembers were taken over by life forces from a prison planet, VOY had the body thief and ENT had the twinkly wisps in the crossing (this is not a complete list)

 

All of these suggest that humans are dual natured. That we have a spirit or consciousness that inhabits our physical body. And it suggests that the spirit can exist outside of the body. This is consistent with my personal beliefs but I don't think it is consistent with mainstream science.

 

If we are strictly organic and our emotions and thoughts are the result of chemical reactions in the brain then "who" we are would be inseparable from our body. It would also open up questions as to what happens to that spirit when our bodies die - does it die as well? Or do all living things have a spirit? Of course the biggie would be where does it come from?.

 

So do you think we have a separable consciousness or do you think our identity is strictly an organic process? What other questions do you see raised by this issue?

[RikerChick 5]

I personaly don't believe that humans have a seperate spirit at all. I believe that when you're dead your dead, period. No afterlife, no consciousness, nothing.

 

What other questions do you see raised by this issue?

 

Not really sure what you mean.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

What other questions do you see raised by this issue?

 

Not really sure what you mean.

It partly means it was late and I couldn't think anymore. But also I thought by introducing the concept ST was dealing more in metaphsyics than science. And I would think that this dual nature - if it existed - would have an effect on transporter technology.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I say there's three parts to the human being - body, spirit, and soul.

 

As for transporter technology, I allways assume that until the body ceased to function, that the soul would just kind'a "piggyback" the transport pattern. B)

 

To answer your questions, I think it's "possible" to pop out of your body, but I'd be completely against it. A wise person once told me that if you're not in control of your body... someone else is. It's also my personal believe that upon death, we sometimes get stuck on Earth for a short time, perhaps to say goodbye to a loved one or something, then or instead, we'd be judged, then sent to Heaven or Hell... that is, provided you believe in that stuff. :lol: I believe only humans have souls, as for animals and such having spirits? I'd like to believe so. Where does it come from? I say it comes from God. B) I think our consciousness is seperable, but only upon death or some unusual circumstance like a near death experrience for example. Don't really have any questions raised. B)

[Klingonmike 0]

I think your spirit and soul die when you die.And I believe animals have a soul and a spirit,its kind of egotistical to think only humans have a soul or spirit.At the time of your death its all over,no after life,no heaven or hell.

 

Humans could be dueled natured I guess,I just honestly never thought about it.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I think your spirit and soul die when you die.And I believe animals have a soul and a spirit,its kind of egotistical to think only humans have a soul or spirit.At the time of your death its all over,no after life,no heaven or hell.

 

Humans could be dueled natured I guess,I just honestly never thought about it.

If humans have a soul and/or a spirit, why would that die when the biological entity dies? It's not egotystical to think only Humans have souls. It says in the Holy Bible that God breathed life, a soul, into man. Never mentions anything about animals having a soul. It's a conclussion based on information in the Bible and has nothing to do with being egotysitcal.

 

If humans could be dual natured, wouldn't that mean we could "leave our body" for a time? If that were true, wouldn't we leave our body upon death instead of just going poof?

[Lollypop 0]

I believe that when you die your life force goes into every other living thing. When my sister died the roses bloomed as they had never done before. :lol:

[Klingonmike 0]

Well since god does not exist in my opinion then your argument is a moot point.And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Well since god does not exist in my opinion then your argument is a moot point.And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

"And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either."

 

Myths? Then how come many have been proven?

[ensign_beedrill 0]

A very interesting topic!

 

Yes, I believe humans have a spirt/soul/whatever-you-wish-to-call-it. It comes from God. And I think it's what makes us all different. We're all the same, physically. The real differences come in our soul. In our choices, our personalities. And that can be considered our soul.

 

I think body and soul can be separated. Because when a body dies, his soul/spirit goes to heaven/hell. It's not like the body goes there. The body stays here. It is the soul that lives on. Until that day when people will be reunited with their bodies.

[Klingonmike 0]

Look CJLP,you just keep blindly believeing what you want,I don't really care as long as your happy with it.Happiness in life is all that matters since it is very short.Believing in a supreme being brings comfort and happiness to many people and that just fine with me.

But to use it to argue a point is very pointless to me.it does not prove any thing you say.There is no proof whatsoever of any gods or goddess or god that people believe exists.No proof at all.

As you know alot of myths are based on some facts,facts that have been stretched and twisted to fit someones agenda.I'm sure there are things in the bible that have a ring of truth to them.but things like the Red sea Parting,never happened. Adam being made from dust and Eve being made from his rib,total myth.The world being made in 7 days,way to much proof that is wrong.

But if your happy believeing that fine,I don't really care.All I know is I'm very happy and content not believing.

[Lollypop 0]

Look CJLP,you just keep blindly believeing what you want,I don't really care as long as your happy with it.Happiness in life is all that matters since it is very short.Believing in a supreme being brings comfort and happiness to many people and that just fine with me.

But to use it to argue a point is very pointless to me.it does not prove any thing you say.There is no proof whatsoever of any gods or goddess or god that people believe exists.No proof at all.

As you know alot of myths are based on some facts,facts that have been stretched and twisted to fit someones agenda.I'm sure there are things in the bible that have a ring of truth to them.but things like the Red sea Parting,never happened. Adam being made from dust and Eve being made from his rib,total myth.The world being made in 7 days,way to much proof that is wrong.

But if your happy believeing that fine,I don't really care.All I know is I'm very happy and content not believing.

Well put Klingonmike. I agree with you :lol:

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Look CJLP,you just keep blindly believeing what you want,I don't really care as long as your happy with it.Happiness in life is all that matters since it is very short.Believing in a supreme being brings comfort and happiness to many people and that just fine with me.

But to use it to argue a point is very pointless to me.it does not prove any thing you say.There is no proof whatsoever of any gods or goddess or god that people believe exists.No proof at all.

As you know alot of myths are based on some facts,facts that have been stretched and twisted to fit someones agenda.I'm sure there are things in the bible that have a ring of truth to them.but things like the Red sea Parting,never happened. Adam being made from dust and Eve being made from his rib,total myth.The world being made in 7 days,way to much proof that is wrong.

But if your happy believeing that fine,I don't really care.All I know is I'm very happy and content not believing.

I wasn't trying to say that you should believe what I do, and I'm sorry if that was the implication of my post, as it was not ment to be as much.

 

With that said, you disagree with my beliefes. I say that's just peachy. However, unless one of us has a time machine, I can't say for a fact that God created the Earth in 6 days, and you can't say that the red sea never parted. We can choose to believe what we want, but I can't prove some of what's in the Bible, just as you cannot prove stuff in the Bible "didn't" happen.

 

Your post indicitates that I'm some person who believes in fairy tales, well, that is not the case, and I'd ask you to watch the wording of your posts on this topic in the future. I'm not easilly offended in this area, but others are.

 

As for "Bible Myths", some have been proven. There's historrical evidence that prooves the Ark of the Covenant did exist, however none for it's contents. There's also historrical evidence that the planet was flooded mostly, if not the entire surface, at some point in the past. Perhaps it was global warming, perhaps it was the "Great Flood", either way, it still happened.

 

My point is not to convince you to believe what I do, my point is that you said the "Bible" is a book of myths when some, not all, but some have been proven. All I ask is that you be sure you know what you're saying before you say it. I hope I was clear, to the point, and that we can agree to disagree. :lol:

[Klingonmike 0]

I do know what I'm saying,but we will agree to disagree.

[Lollypop 0]

Look CJLP,you just keep blindly believeing what you want,I don't really care as long as your happy with it.Happiness in life is all that matters since it is very short.Believing in a supreme being brings comfort and happiness to many people and that just fine with me.

But to use it to argue a point is very pointless to me.it does not prove any thing you say.There is no proof whatsoever of any gods or goddess or god that people believe exists.No proof at all.

As you know alot of myths are based on some facts,facts that have been stretched and twisted to fit someones agenda.I'm sure there are things in the bible that have a ring of truth to them.but things like the Red sea Parting,never happened. Adam being made from dust and Eve being made from his rib,total myth.The world being made in 7 days,way to much proof that is wrong.

But if your happy believeing that fine,I don't really care.All I know is I'm very happy and content not believing.

I wasn't trying to say that you should believe what I do, and I'm sorry if that was the implication of my post, as it was not ment to be as much.

 

With that said, you disagree with my beliefes. I say that's just peachy. However, unless one of us has a time machine, I can't say for a fact that God created the Earth in 6 days, and you can't say that the red sea never parted. We can choose to believe what we want, but I can't prove some of what's in the Bible, just as you cannot prove stuff in the Bible "didn't" happen.

 

Your post indicitates that I'm some person who believes in fairy tales, well, that is not the case, and I'd ask you to watch the wording of your posts on this topic in the future. I'm not easilly offended in this area, but others are.

 

As for "Bible Myths", some have been proven. There's historrical evidence that prooves the Ark of the Covenant did exist, however none for it's contents. There's also historrical evidence that the planet was flooded mostly, if not the entire surface, at some point in the past. Perhaps it was global warming, perhaps it was the "Great Flood", either way, it still happened.

 

My point is not to convince you to believe what I do, my point is that you said the "Bible" is a book of myths when some, not all, but some have been proven. All I ask is that you be sure you know what you're saying before you say it. I hope I was clear, to the point, and that we can agree to disagree. :lol:

I take it you don't believe in evolution then ?

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Look CJLP,you just keep blindly believeing what you want,I don't really care as long as your happy with it.Happiness in life is all that matters since it is very short.Believing in a supreme being brings comfort and happiness to many people and that just fine with me.

But to use it to argue a point is very pointless to me.it does not prove any thing you say.There is no proof whatsoever of any gods or goddess or god that people believe exists.No proof at all.

As you know alot of myths are based on some facts,facts that have been stretched and twisted to fit someones agenda.I'm sure there are things in the bible that have a ring of truth to them.but things like the Red sea Parting,never happened. Adam being made from dust and Eve being made from his rib,total myth.The world being made in 7 days,way to much proof that is wrong.

But if your happy believeing that fine,I don't really care.All I know is I'm very happy and content not believing.

I wasn't trying to say that you should believe what I do, and I'm sorry if that was the implication of my post, as it was not ment to be as much.

 

With that said, you disagree with my beliefes. I say that's just peachy. However, unless one of us has a time machine, I can't say for a fact that God created the Earth in 6 days, and you can't say that the red sea never parted. We can choose to believe what we want, but I can't prove some of what's in the Bible, just as you cannot prove stuff in the Bible "didn't" happen.

 

Your post indicitates that I'm some person who believes in fairy tales, well, that is not the case, and I'd ask you to watch the wording of your posts on this topic in the future. I'm not easilly offended in this area, but others are.

 

As for "Bible Myths", some have been proven. There's historrical evidence that prooves the Ark of the Covenant did exist, however none for it's contents. There's also historrical evidence that the planet was flooded mostly, if not the entire surface, at some point in the past. Perhaps it was global warming, perhaps it was the "Great Flood", either way, it still happened.

 

My point is not to convince you to believe what I do, my point is that you said the "Bible" is a book of myths when some, not all, but some have been proven. All I ask is that you be sure you know what you're saying before you say it. I hope I was clear, to the point, and that we can agree to disagree. :lol:

I take it you don't believe in evolution then ?

I do believe in evolution, I just don't believe that a species would evolve into another. I believe in, for lack of better terminology, subtle-evolution. For instance, I believe the first humans all looked alike, perhaps they were "cave people", who knows, but I believe that the original humans that came from Adam and Eve all looked alike, but in time, evolved into the varrious cultures of today. I know some don't believe in the Bible and such, I'm just providing an example of what I believe evolution is. B)

[Lollypop 0]

Let me ask you this then Captain Jean-Luc Picard " If Adam and Eve were the first 2 " and Cain and Abel were their only children. After Cain killed Abel he went to the land of Nod and took a wife... Where did she come from ?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

The fact that technology can't discern something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Nor can we say with certainty (unless someone's got a time machine I don't know about) what our technology will be able to discover 200 years from now.

 

I've read an analysis of near-death experiences by a heart surgeon who was a trained scientist. He didn't want to believe what he couldn't explain but his final conclusion was there was no way a person could repeat the detail that these patients gave unless they had been on the ceiling instead of on the table. I think it interesting that if someone had that level of knowledge regarding a crime they would most likely be found guilty.

 

I think the exisitence of a spirit could also explain the anecdotal stories of people reporting seeing relatives coming to escort them from this life. This would indicate however the spirit does not cease existence at the same time as the body.

 

My question regarding the transporter was also referenced by L. Krauss in his book the physics of Star Trek. If our consciousness is something other than matter it may not get transported with the rest of us.

[Lollypop 0]

The fact that technology can't discern something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Nor can we say with certainty (unless someone's got a time machine I don't know about) what our technology will be able to discover 200 years from now.

 

I've read an analysis of near-death experiences by a heart surgeon who was a trained scientist.  He didn't want to believe what he couldn't explain but his final conclusion was there was no way a person could repeat the detail that these patients gave unless they had been on the ceiling instead of on the table.  I think it interesting that if someone had that level of knowledge regarding a crime they would most likely be found guilty.

 

I think the exisitence of a spirit could also explain the anecdotal stories of people reporting seeing relatives coming to escort them from this life.  This would indicate however the spirit does not cease existence at the same time as the body. 

 

My question regarding the transporter was also referenced by L. Krauss in his book the physics of Star Trek.  If our consciousness is something other than matter it may not get transported with the rest of us.

I think when the body is dying, the brain tries so soften the trauma by allowing you to see what you want to see.

[Klingonmike 0]

That would be cool,that means when I die I'll see myself sitting in the captains chair of a starship!!! :lol:

[Lollypop 0]

That would be cool,that means when I die I'll see myself sitting in the captains chair of a starship!!! :lol:

And why not B)

[RikerChick 5]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

And we can't forget that a few of those "myths" have been proven too, like the great flood. :lol:

[Klingonmike 0]

As I said before we will agree to disagree.so you can drop it now.I'll never mention it again.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

Wait, wait, wait... First you say you don't believe in afterlife, then you say you believe the Holy Bible is the word of God.

 

B) (confused) :lol:

[Lollypop 0]

Let me ask you this then Captain Jean-Luc Picard " If Adam and Eve were the first 2 " and Cain and Abel were their only children. After Cain killed Abel he went to the land of Nod and took a wife... Where did she come from ?

You still haven't answered this Captain :lol:

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Let me ask you this then Captain Jean-Luc Picard " If Adam and Eve were the first 2 " and Cain and Abel were their only children. After Cain killed Abel he went to the land of Nod and took a wife... Where did she come from ?

You still haven't answered this Captain :lol:

Ah, hmm... That's actually, a very good question. B)

[Takara_Soong 4]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

Wait, wait, wait... First you say you don't believe in afterlife, then you say you believe the Holy Bible is the word of God.

 

B) (confused) :lol:

 

 

Those asleep in the grave but who are in God's memory will be resurrected, not to heaven, but to life on a cleansed earth. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-13, 25; Acts 24:15)

 

his spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish."—Psalm 146:4

 

The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it." (Psalm 37:29)

 

Not all Bible-based religions teach of the afterlife.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

Wait, wait, wait... First you say you don't believe in afterlife, then you say you believe the Holy Bible is the word of God.

 

B) (confused) :lol:

Not all Christian religions teach of the afterlife.

Good point. But... if you believe in God and all... how can you not believe in an afterlife? B) (baffled)

[Takara_Soong 4]

And the holy bible is a book of Christian myths written by men,so that doesn't help your argument either.

That is your opinion, not fact. Just as strongly as you believe that it's a book of myths I believe that it's the inspired word of God.

Wait, wait, wait... First you say you don't believe in afterlife, then you say you believe the Holy Bible is the word of God.

 

B) (confused) B)

Not all Christian religions teach of the afterlife.

Good point. But... if you believe in God and all... how can you not believe in an afterlife? :lol: (baffled)

Some faiths believe that when the Earth has been stricken of evil and suffering that the righteous and unrighteous will be resurrected to live on a Paradise Earth.

 

He will actually swallow up death forever."—Isaiah 25:8

 

This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.—John 17:3

 

If you believe in everlasting life, there is no afterlife.