Question for Star Wars fans

[Takara_Soong 4]

I'm curious regarding how Star Wars canon is discussed or if it is discussed on Star Wars message boards. Are SW fans forgiving of even the most outlandish breaches in canon, continutity, timeline, etc.? Is that not important to them?

 

I read at Canada's Space channel's message boards an article regarding the top 10 "peculiarities" in the SW movies and then I was reading reactions to the lastest movie here and at other sites. I realized that while some of the "peculiarities" were pretty major that SW fans still gushed on and on about how good the SW movies are. Is canon unimportant to SW fans?

[sea trooper 0]

Star Wars cannon?

[Takara_Soong 4]

Star Wars cannon?

325282[/snapback]

 

I'm using that term in the same way we would use it in Trek. Example of what I mean by SW canon: Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's father.

[Kor37 9]

Canon in Star Wars is a little different than canon in Star Trek for the simple reason that there is a heck of a lot more Trek than there is Wars. I haven't really studied it but I would hope that Lucas could keep canon straight between a mere 6 films.

I haven't really paid that much attention to canon in Star Wars. The only thing that I was questioning was.....

Click For Spoiler

How did C3PO not know who Darth Vader really was in the original movies since it turned out that Annikan was the one who originally built him? This is answered in the new movie but they really never explained why C3PO's memories were erased.

Edited May 21, 2005 by Kor37

[Itchygomba69 0]

Kor Maybe because his voice and Physically features changed he doesnt know Annikan is Darth, Just an IDea, cause after the accident you dont hear darth going by Skywalker much

[VaBeachGuy 12]

The only thing that I was questioning was.....

Click For Spoiler

How did C3PO not know who Darth Vader really was in the original movies since it turned out that Annikan was the one who originally built him? This is answered in the new movie but they really never explained why C3PO's memories were erased.

325291[/snapback]

 

Click For Spoiler

I assumed that they were erased because he knew of the twins and that they had been born. If you noticed when they had Padme's funeral she still appeared to be pregnant, which was to trick any enemies into thinking that she had died before giving birth.

 

That brings up one question in my mind though, and I may have forgetten something but if it was believed by all but a very few people that she had not given birth then how did Darth Vader know that he was Luke's father?

[Ace 0]

The only thing that I was questioning was.....

Click For Spoiler

How did C3PO not know who Darth Vader really was in the original movies since it turned out that Annikan was the one who originally built him? This is answered in the new movie but they really never explained why C3PO's memories were erased.

325291[/snapback]

 

Click For Spoiler

I assumed that they were erased because he knew of the twins and that they had been born. If you noticed when they had Padme's funeral she still appeared to be pregnant, which was to trick any enemies into thinking that she had died before giving birth.

 

That brings up one question in my mind though, and I may have forgetten something but if it was believed by all but a very few people that she had not given birth then how did Darth Vader know that he was Luke's father?

325321[/snapback]

 

Click For Spoiler

I'd wondered about that Darth/Luke issue myself. I haven't watched the original trilogy in a little while to know for sure, but maybe it was just a "force" thing; i.e.- when Luke told Leia she was his sister, she replied, "...somehow, I've always known." I dunno; that's just a thought that occurred to me.

 

As to the topic, no, I really don't think SW fans (on average) care as much about canon. I'm a big fan of both SW and ST, but care alot more about ST canon.

 

It might have something to do with the proliferation of info (6 SW films vs 10 ST films and 5 ST series). The more you've seen on screen, the more there is to nitpick.

 

Also, since SW has a much bigger fanbase than Trek, it's more likely to have a majority of fans who couldn't care less about smaller canon issues. Big breaks in continuity are sure to be complained about, but may not be discussed as often as in Trek (imo).

[Takara_Soong 4]

I wasn't going to post the article I referred to but have now changed my mind.

 

Click For Spoiler

Star Wars fans will note inconsistencies in six films

© The Canadian Press, 2005

 

TORONTO (CP) - While George Lucas and company have obviously struggled mightily to keep consistency in the many plot threads that wind through the six Star Wars films, inevitably picky fans will find certain timeline anomalies as Revenge of the Sith faces its ultimate docking with the original Episode IV.

On the Internet, Star Wars geeks debate endlessly over the finer points of the Lucas storyline, often invoking the vagaries of The Force to explain the unexplainable.

 

Here is an arbitrary Top 10 list of plot turn peculiarities that, if nothing else, can generate healthy debate amongst the uber-fans:

 

-Obi-Wan Kenobi's age. The Jedi master goes from young action hero as played by Ewan McGregor to the distinctly elderly Old Ben Kenobi that young Luke meets at the outset of A New Hope. Alec Guinness was 63 at the time and Luke goes from birth to just a teenager between the two films.

 

-Forgetting the robots. Conveniently, R2-D2 and C-3PO have their memories wiped at the end of Revenge of the Sith. But isn't it curious that Darth Vader doesn't seem to notice Threepio, especially since as the child Anakin, he personally built the fussy golden robot? And when we meet Kenobi in the original film, he looks at R2 and declares: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." This, though they had plenty of adventures together.

 

-Luke and Leia discuss their real mother in Return of the Jedi. Luke cannot remember her but Leia says that she died when Leia was very young (Duh! Like at birth!) and that all she remembers are images, feelings.

 

"She was very beautiful, kind, but sad." Hmm, must be The Force within her that allows such memories for a newborn.

 

-It was common knowledge that Obi-Wan would be no match for his former padewan Anakin in a light sabre duel and yet he manages to nearly finish the future Darth Vader off in their climactic face-off in Revenge of the Sith, leaving him sans face and legs and one arm.

 

-In the original trilogy, Darth Vader reveals to Luke that he is Luke's father and invites the lad to join him in ruling the galaxy. Fine, but even at the end of Sith, Anakin makes the same offer to Padme, to join him as his queen when he overthrows the Emperor. But he has just converted to the dark side and it seems awfully premature for Anakin to be having such dreams of power when he supposedly is still so loyal to Palpatine.

 

-Didn't the Jedi give up rather easily? Despite their 1,000-year code of honour, at the end of Sith they scatter to the far reaches of the galaxy in exile - Yoda on the swamp planet Dagobah and Obi-Wan on Tattooine - and take nearly 20 years before they are lured back into action by young Luke Skywalker. Some knights.

 

-The biggest credibility gap between the two trilogies will undoubtedly be the plummet in film technology between episodes III and IV. Obviously there is also a budget gap since Lucas shot the first film on a relative shoestring. Admittedly when the saga opened in 1977 the galaxy was in a depression and everything was rusted and clunky. But check out R2-D2 in the original and how cheesy this hand-painted tin can looks compared to the slick piece of technology he ended up as in the prequels.

 

-In Sith, Natalie Portman's Padme Amidala briefly sports the much-mocked cinnamon-bun hairstyle first worn by Carrie Fisher's Princess Leia in the first Star Wars movie. Like mother, like daughter, perhaps, but everyone knows that, even a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, no woman would ever wear a 20-year-old hairdo.

 

-It's interesting that despite the interstellar sophistication of the Star Wars era, obstetrics is still so primitive. Padme has no idea she is carrying twins until they are born. And Bail Organa agrees to adopt Leia because he and his Queen are unable to conceive themselves.

 

-And last but certainly not least, those troubling midi-chlorians and their messiah. Not mentioned at all in the original trilogy but in The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon Jinn notes that young Anakin Skywalker's bloodstream has the highest count of midi-chlorians he's ever seen. He explains that they are tiny microbes that live in the blood in a symbiotic relationship with human hosts, allowing them to connect to The Force. Also, young Anakin had no father, his mother declaring him to be the result of an immaculate conception of sorts.

 

So Anakin is seen to be "the chosen one," created by the midi-chlorian organisms to bring balance to the power of The Force. So what went wrong with this "divine" intervention?

[sea trooper 0]

Star Wars cannon?

325282[/snapback]

 

I'm using that term in the same way we would use it in Trek. Example of what I mean by SW canon: Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's father.

325284[/snapback]

... I am starting to think that I got the wrong defenition of canon. I thought it had to do with religious stuff. :P

[Takara_Soong 4]

... I am starting to think that I got the wrong defenition of canon. I thought it had to do with religious stuff.

325337[/snapback]

 

You mean Trek isn't? LOL Just kidding. Trek facts have been called canon for as long as I can remember.

[Ace 0]

...debate endlessly over the finer points of the Lucas storyline, often invoking the vagaries of The Force to explain the unexplainable.

325332[/snapback]

 

LOL! And I just did that.

 

Alot of those issues are easily explained away (IMO), but some, such as Leia's comments about her mother, have confused me too. I just figured that Leia was still under the impression at that moment in time that Lady Organa was her real mother, and that she was the one who died when Leia was young. *shrug*

[A l t e r E g o 9]

 

 

After seeing Episode 3 I remember thinking this saga is now become the all-time king of good continuity then I watched episode 4 and thought uh-oh; Lucas screwed up big-time. It is clear more events are needed to fill the gap between and so must Lucas agree...

 

I believe problems I spotted in E4 will be addressed in the up-coming TV series (see thread this forum) which takes place between episodes 3 and 4, that is the only place I see problems but they could/will be straightened out in time.

 

I would bet the farm that once those filler tales are told continuity for Star Wars will be hailed among people to whom continuity is important, as first-class.

 

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Star Wars cannon? :P

325282[/snapback]

 

I'm using that term in the same way we would use it in Trek. Example of what I mean by SW canon: Darth Vader is Luke and Leia's father.

325284[/snapback]

... I am starting to think that I got the wrong defenition of canon. I thought it had to do with religious stuff.

325337[/snapback]

Canon would be what you consider to be the true "history" of events. For instance, in Star Trek the TV shows and movies are considered "canon" and are considered to be actual events that "happened" but the Star Trek books are not canon and are considered "fantasy" within the Trek universe.

 

My understanding of the Star Wars universe is that it's opposite of Trek. In Star Wars the books are considered canon as well as the movies.

 

Here's a couple of articles I found on the internet to further explain Canon.

 

The term "canon" has religious roots; it refers to a body of rules or principles, and in the case of Christianity, it refers to "a list of books of the Bible officially accepted by the church or religious body as genuine", according to Webster's New World Dictionary. As with the Bible, the canon of Star Wars and Star Trek is crucial because it literally defines what is "real" in those fictional universes. Luckily, the Christian canon is a good model to use because it is universally agreed-upon, right? Well, actually ... no.

 

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Misc/Canon.html

 

 

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Star Trek canon consists of the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and Star Trek: The Motion Picture and its sequels. The non-canonical status of the various novels, comic books and Star Trek: The Animated Series was decided by Gene Roddenberry, who also, unsuccessfully, attempted to have the Trek films Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country declared apocryphal.

 

According to current editors at Pocket Books, current rights holders for publishing Star Trek fiction, no novels or other printed stories are considered canon by Paramount Pictures, owners of Star Trek. This includes the Voyager novels Pathways and Mosaic (both by the series producer Jeri Taylor) which were, for a time, considered canon but stopped being so after Taylor left her position with the series. This viewpoint is considered controversial by many fans of Star Trek fiction, some of whom consider the literary works to be superior to many examples of the televised and filmed Star Trek. In addition, no reference works based upon the series are considered canon, either, even though they may contain canonical elements. This includes works such as the popular Star Trek Chronology.

 

No animated series episode is considered canon, however elements from the animated series have been introduced into canon by clever live-action episode writers, an example being the "Kaswahn" ritual mentioned in the episode "Yesteryear" which remained officially non-canonical until it was mentioned in a 2002 episode of Star Trek: Enterprise called "The Catwalk." Many Star Trek fans do not accept the Enterprise series as canon, with some alleging it violates continuity with earlier series and movies, and others basing their opinion on it violating aspects of fanon. Others believe it takes place in an alternate universe that follows a different timeline than that established in the Original Series and recently this reasoning has been expanded by some to include all "modern Trek" series and movies.

 

A more extreme group of fans refuse to accept anything but The Original Series and subsequent movies featuring the original cast as canon, rejecting anything produced after TNG (or, alternately, after the death of Gene Roddenberry).

 

The term "personal canon" has been used to describe such selective rejection of aspects of the Star Trek franchise.

 

Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_canon

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Click For Spoiler

The only thing that I was questioning was.....

Click For Spoiler

How did C3PO not know who Darth Vader really was in the original movies since it turned out that Annikan was the one who originally built him? This is answered in the new movie but they really never explained why C3PO's memories were erased.

325291[/snapback]

 

Click For Spoiler

I assumed that they were erased because he knew of the twins and that they had been born. If you noticed when they had Padme's funeral she still appeared to be pregnant, which was to trick any enemies into thinking that she had died before giving birth.

 

That brings up one question in my mind though, and I may have forgetten something but if it was believed by all but a very few people that she had not given birth then how did Darth Vader know that he was Luke's father?

325321[/snapback]

 

Click For Spoiler

I'd wondered about that Darth/Luke issue myself. I haven't watched the original trilogy in a little while to know for sure, but maybe it was just a "force" thing; i.e.- when Luke told Leia she was his sister, she replied, "...somehow, I've always known." I dunno; that's just a thought that occurred to me.

 

As to the topic, no, I really don't think SW fans (on average) care as much about canon. I'm a big fan of both SW and ST, but care alot more about ST canon.

 

It might have something to do with the proliferation of info (6 SW films vs 10 ST films and 5 ST series). The more you've seen on screen, the more there is to nitpick.

 

Also, since SW has a much bigger fanbase than Trek, it's more likely to have a majority of fans who couldn't care less about smaller canon issues. Big breaks in continuity are sure to be complained about, but may not be discussed as often as in Trek (imo).

325329[/snapback]

More spoilers! YEA!

Click For Spoiler

Okay, how DID Darth know Luke was his son? According to the books, which are considered Canon, they DO have a meeting between IV and V. Also, it is entirely possible that a spy on Yavin gave the Empire the name of that Fighter Pilot in whom the force was so strong. Not many people in the Galaxy probably have the name Skywalker. Just a theory though. and we can't dismiss the force entirely.

 

I wasn't going to post the article I referred to but have now changed my mind.

 

Click For Spoiler

Star Wars fans will note inconsistencies in six films

© The Canadian Press, 2005

 

TORONTO (CP) - While George Lucas and company have obviously struggled mightily to keep consistency in the many plot threads that wind through the six Star Wars films, inevitably picky fans will find certain timeline anomalies as Revenge of the Sith faces its ultimate docking with the original Episode IV.

On the Internet, Star Wars geeks debate endlessly over the finer points of the Lucas storyline, often invoking the vagaries of The Force to explain the unexplainable.

 

Here is an arbitrary Top 10 list of plot turn peculiarities that, if nothing else, can generate healthy debate amongst the uber-fans:

 

-Obi-Wan Kenobi's age. The Jedi master goes from young action hero as played by Ewan McGregor to the distinctly elderly Old Ben Kenobi that young Luke meets at the outset of A New Hope. Alec Guinness was 63 at the time and Luke goes from birth to just a teenager between the two films.

 

-Forgetting the robots. Conveniently, R2-D2 and C-3PO have their memories wiped at the end of Revenge of the Sith. But isn't it curious that Darth Vader doesn't seem to notice Threepio, especially since as the child Anakin, he personally built the fussy golden robot? And when we meet Kenobi in the original film, he looks at R2 and declares: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." This, though they had plenty of adventures together.

 

-Luke and Leia discuss their real mother in Return of the Jedi. Luke cannot remember her but Leia says that she died when Leia was very young (Duh! Like at birth!) and that all she remembers are images, feelings.

 

"She was very beautiful, kind, but sad." Hmm, must be The Force within her that allows such memories for a newborn.

 

-It was common knowledge that Obi-Wan would be no match for his former padewan Anakin in a light sabre duel and yet he manages to nearly finish the future Darth Vader off in their climactic face-off in Revenge of the Sith, leaving him sans face and legs and one arm.

 

-In the original trilogy, Darth Vader reveals to Luke that he is Luke's father and invites the lad to join him in ruling the galaxy. Fine, but even at the end of Sith, Anakin makes the same offer to Padme, to join him as his queen when he overthrows the Emperor. But he has just converted to the dark side and it seems awfully premature for Anakin to be having such dreams of power when he supposedly is still so loyal to Palpatine.

 

-Didn't the Jedi give up rather easily? Despite their 1,000-year code of honour, at the end of Sith they scatter to the far reaches of the galaxy in exile - Yoda on the swamp planet Dagobah and Obi-Wan on Tattooine - and take nearly 20 years before they are lured back into action by young Luke Skywalker. Some knights.

 

-The biggest credibility gap between the two trilogies will undoubtedly be the plummet in film technology between episodes III and IV. Obviously there is also a budget gap since Lucas shot the first film on a relative shoestring. Admittedly when the saga opened in 1977 the galaxy was in a depression and everything was rusted and clunky. But check out R2-D2 in the original and how cheesy this hand-painted tin can looks compared to the slick piece of technology he ended up as in the prequels.

 

-In Sith, Natalie Portman's Padme Amidala briefly sports the much-mocked cinnamon-bun hairstyle first worn by Carrie Fisher's Princess Leia in the first Star Wars movie. Like mother, like daughter, perhaps, but everyone knows that, even a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, no woman would ever wear a 20-year-old hairdo.

 

-It's interesting that despite the interstellar sophistication of the Star Wars era, obstetrics is still so primitive. Padme has no idea she is carrying twins until they are born. And Bail Organa agrees to adopt Leia because he and his Queen are unable to conceive themselves.

 

-And last but certainly not least, those troubling midi-chlorians and their messiah. Not mentioned at all in the original trilogy but in The Phantom Menace Qui-Gon Jinn notes that young Anakin Skywalker's bloodstream has the highest count of midi-chlorians he's ever seen. He explains that they are tiny microbes that live in the blood in a symbiotic relationship with human hosts, allowing them to connect to The Force. Also, young Anakin had no father, his mother declaring him to be the result of an immaculate conception of sorts.

 

So Anakin is seen to be "the chosen one," created by the midi-chlorian organisms to bring balance to the power of The Force. So what went wrong with this "divine" intervention?

325332[/snapback]

 

And again with the spoilers.

 

Click For Spoiler

It's 19 years between ROTS and ANH. It's 2 years between AOTC and ROTS, and 10 years between TPM and AOTC. If Obi Wan was 25 (which I believe the books say he was) when he took young Skywalker Sr. as his apprentice, then he was 56 in ROTS, and probably in his 70s in ANH. But, it isn't unreasonable to say someone looking so good is 70. Example: Christopher Lee. He's 83, and still looking quite good. Also, It's been shone that there are hundreds of thousands of protocol droids like Threepio in the Galaxy. and the voices may be quite similar. (According to the books, there are two different types of Protocal Droids, C-3PO for Civilian use, and M-3PO for Military use.) as for the rest, I was wondering the same.

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

-Obi-Wan Kenobi's age. The Jedi master goes from young action hero as played by Ewan McGregor to the distinctly elderly Old Ben Kenobi that young Luke meets at the outset of A New Hope. Alec Guinness was 63 at the time and Luke goes from birth to just a teenager between the two films.

 

Alec Guinness may have been 63 but the character may not have been. So his age in the story may have been closer to Luke's than it may seem. Spending so many years in the harsh environment of Tattoine may also account for his frailty.

 

But isn't it curious that Darth Vader doesn't seem to notice Threepio, especially since as the child Anakin, he personally built the fussy golden robot? And when we meet Kenobi in the original film, he looks at R2 and declares: "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." This, though they had plenty of adventures together.

 

Vader may have either simply thought that C-3PO was a different protocol droid.

 

Kenobi never actually "owned" R2-D2 and not mentioning his past adventures may have been intentional to not give Luke too much information before he was ready to hear it.

 

Luke and Leia discuss their real mother in Return of the Jedi. Luke cannot remember her but Leia says that she died when Leia was very young (Duh! Like at birth!) and that all she remembers are images, feelings.

 

The Force is mysterious. Leia may have had "Force Echoes" in her memory.

 

It was common knowledge that Obi-Wan would be no match for his former padewan Anakin in a light sabre duel and yet he manages to nearly finish the future Darth Vader off in their climactic face-off in Revenge of the Sith, leaving him sans face and legs and one arm.

 

Obi-Wan wasn't as physically strong as Anakin, but he was more experienced and calm whereas Anakin was hot-headed (no pun intended) and was prone to make mistakes. Obi-Wan would take advantage of that.

 

In the original trilogy, Darth Vader reveals to Luke that he is Luke's father and invites the lad to join him in ruling the galaxy. Fine, but even at the end of Sith, Anakin makes the same offer to Padme, to join him as his queen when he overthrows the Emperor. But he has just converted to the dark side and it seems awfully premature for Anakin to be having such dreams of power when he supposedly is still so loyal to Palpatine.

 

The Sith constantly plot against each other. The fact they try to kill each other is the reason why only two exist. Both Palpatine and Vader are well aware that the other wants to kill them.

 

Didn't the Jedi give up rather easily? Despite their 1,000-year code of honour, at the end of Sith they scatter to the far reaches of the galaxy in exile - Yoda on the swamp planet Dagobah and Obi-Wan on Tattooine - and take nearly 20 years before they are lured back into action by young Luke Skywalker. Some knights.

 

They realised that they had no chance of defeating the Empire when it was formed. Palpatine was at his strongest, as was Vader and the Senate was in support of the Empire too. They choose to bide their time. Patience is part of the Jedi code.

 

The biggest credibility gap between the two trilogies will undoubtedly be the plummet in film technology between episodes III and IV. Obviously there is also a budget gap since Lucas shot the first film on a relative shoestring. Admittedly when the saga opened in 1977 the galaxy was in a depression and everything was rusted and clunky. But check out R2-D2 in the original and how cheesy this hand-painted tin can looks compared to the slick piece of technology he ended up as in the prequels.

 

This doesn't matter. It's a external matter, not a problem with the narrative element of the saga.

 

In Sith, Natalie Portman's Padme Amidala briefly sports the much-mocked cinnamon-bun hairstyle first worn by Carrie Fisher's Princess Leia in the first Star Wars movie. Like mother, like daughter, perhaps, but everyone knows that, even a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, no woman would ever wear a 20-year-old hairdo.

 

Fashions in the Star Wars universe don't mirror the fashions in this one.

 

It's interesting that despite the interstellar sophistication of the Star Wars era, obstetrics is still so primitive. Padme has no idea she is carrying twins until they are born. And Bail Organa agrees to adopt Leia because he and his Queen are unable to conceive themselves.

 

She may have chosen to have no scans, on account of not trusting people to keep the matter a secret, or simply to be surprised when she gave birth.

 

As for Bail, there may have been some medical reason for his wife not being able to conceive or perhaps a religious or spiritual reason why they did not seek treatment.

 

So Anakin is seen to be "the chosen one," created by the midi-chlorian organisms to bring balance to the power of The Force. So what went wrong with this "divine" intervention?

 

It is implied in Episode III that Sidious may have had a role in manipulating midi-chlorians to create Anakin, since it seemed obvious that Darth Plagueis was his master who could do such things.

 

"Bringing balance to the Force" didn't necessarily mean he would be a messiah figure. It could have meant that he would all but two Jedi to balance the two Sith.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Click For Spoiler

It's 19 years between ROTS and ANH. It's 2 years between AOTC and ROTS, and 10 years between TPM and AOTC. If Obi Wan was 25 (which I believe the books say he was) when he took young Skywalker Sr. as his apprentice, then he was 56 in ROTS, and probably in his 70s in ANH. But, it isn't unreasonable to say someone looking so good is 70. Example: Christopher Lee. He's 83, and still looking quite good. Also, It's been shone that there are hundreds of thousands of protocol droids like Threepio in the Galaxy. and the voices may be quite similar. (According to the books, there are two different types of Protocal Droids, C-3PO for Civilian use, and M-3PO for Military use.) as for the rest, I was wondering the same.

325449[/snapback]

 

I think you've added wrong there, Jim. If Obi Wan is 25 in TPH, add 10 years to AOTC makes him 35 plus 2 years to ROTS makes him 37, not 56. He would have been 56 in ANH but Alec Guiness was 63 (and not a young looking 63, IMO) when he played him in ANH. And with Anakin's age, he was 9(?) in TPM so that would have made him 40 in ANH and 50 at the most when he died in ROTJ (does that sound right?). The actor who played Anakin Skywalker in ROTJ (Sebastian Shaw) was 78 at the time of filming.

 

I was watching AOTC on television today (first time I've seen it) and I noticed on a few occasions that Anakin, Padme, etc. were referred to as humans (3PO commenting that R2 doesn't understand human behaviour and something else I can't remember). What's up with that?

 

As for the protocol droids, the others that I heard speak in the movies I've seen had very different voices. The R2 units all sound the same to me. LOL

 

There were a number of things I didn't understand from AOTC like:

• Anakin tells Padme that he "slaughtered" all of the Raiders including women and children and she doesn't flinch. What the heck is with that?!? He confessed to mass murder and she doesn't care.
  
• And Count Dooku(sp?) had the plans for a Death Star in AOTC so why did it take 20+ years for the Empire to build it?
  
• Here's another thing I don't understand - why give Luke to Owen and Beru Lars? It doesn't really seem to be hiding Luke when you give him to Anakin's step-brother living on the same farm Anakin met them at on Anakin's home planet.
   
  I now realize I have questions that go beyond AOTC. LOL
   
  
• If Vader could sense the Force in Luke then why couldn't he sense it in Leia?
  
• With Darth Sidious' victory, why are there only 2 Sith by the time of ANH?
  
• In ANH, Obi Wan says he doesn't remember ever owning a droid. What about that droid from his ship?
  
• There seemed to be a few situations in TPM and AOTC when "that old Jedi mind trick" would have come in handy. Do they use that "trick" in the prequels?
  

As I said I watched AOTC for the first time today and it's been at least 3 years since I've watch TPM and the original trilogy so this is just off the top of my head.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Takara_Soong

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

If Vader could sense the Force in Luke then why couldn't he sense it in Leia?

 

Hmmmm, not sure about that one. LOL

 

It could be that Leia knows nothing about the Force, and perhaps her mid-chlorians are dormant, so he can't sense it in her.

 

Whereas Luke was made aware of it by Obi-Wan.

 

With Darth Sidious' victory, why are there only 2 Sith by the time of ANH?

 

The Sith can only exist two at a time. It was Darth Bane who made that a rule for the order, since having more than two Sith will result in two of them teaming up to kill the other.

 

In ANH, Obi Wan says he doesn't remember ever owning a droid. What about that droid from his ship?

 

He probably didn't own the droid privately. It was the property of the Republic.

 

There seemed to be a few situations in TPM and AOTC when "that old Jedi mind trick" would have come in handy. Do they use that "trick" in the prequels?

 

Qui-Gonn tried it in TPM on Watto. It didn't work on him though because he was a Toydarian. He DOES however use the Jedi Mind Trick on Boss Nass in Otoh Gunga.

 

Anakin tells Padme that he "slaughtered" all of the Raiders including women and children and she doesn't flinch. What the heck is with that?!? He confessed to mass murder and she doesn't care.

 

I can't defend or explain that one. :P It seemed very cold of her.

 

And Count Dooku(sp?) had the plans for a Death Star in AOTC so why did it take 20+ years for the Empire to build it?

 

I can't explain that either.

 

Here's another thing I don't understand - why give Luke to Owen and Beru Lars? It doesn't really seem to be hiding Luke when you give him to Anakin's step-brother living on the same farm Anakin met them at on Anakin's home planet.

 

Anakin hates Tatooine so it's very unlikely that as Darth Vader he would go back. He's also under the impression that the "baby" Padme was carrying died with her, until he encounters Luke in battle.

Edited May 23, 2005 by The King

[Takara_Soong 4]

Click For Spoiler

If Vader could sense the Force in Luke then why couldn't he sense it in Leia?

 

Hmmmm, not sure about that one. LOL

 

It could be that Leia knows nothing about the Force, and perhaps her mid-chlorians are dormant, so he can't sense it in her.

 

Whereas Luke was made aware of it by Obi-Wan.

 

With Darth Sidious' victory, why are there only 2 Sith by the time of ANH?

 

The Sith can only exist two at a time. It was Darth Bane who made that a rule for the order, since having more than two Sith will result in two of them teaming up to kill the other.

 

In ANH, Obi Wan says he doesn't remember ever owning a droid. What about that droid from his ship?

 

He probably didn't own the droid privately. It was the property of the Republic.

 

There seemed to be a few situations in TPM and AOTC when "that old Jedi mind trick" would have come in handy. Do they use that "trick" in the prequels?

 

Qui-Gonn tried it in TPM on Watto. It didn't work on him though because he was a Toydarian. He DOES however use the Jedi Mind Trick on Boss Nass in Otoh Gunga.

325455[/snapback]

 

Leia told Luke that she somehow always knew that he was her brother so that would imply that the Force wasn't dormant in her, wouldn't it. It also makes the kiss from TESB major EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!

 

Darth Bane created a rule and everyone actually followed it? Since when do bad guys follow rules? And how does 2 Sith vs. a bazillion Jedi create a balance in the Force? To mean that says the Jedi are pretty lame if it only takes 2 Sith to balance it out. lol (And I don't think the Jedi are lame.)

 

As for the Republic owning the droid and not Obi Wan, that's pushing it. LOL

 

New Question (AOTC): Are there such a thing as Force-proof handcuffs? If Jedi can manipulate objects with their minds, then why couldn't Obi Wan and Anakin remove those restraints from their wrists using the Force?

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Ah, according to the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, there are several devices that can contain a force-sensative prisoner. Also, it is POSSIBLE that there could have been an Ysalmari present. (an Ysalmari is a creature native to Mrykr that creates a field within about 12 meters where the Force is absent)

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

Leia told Luke that she somehow always knew that he was her brother so that would imply that the Force wasn't dormant in her, wouldn't it. It also makes the kiss from TESB major EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW!!!

 

Well, it could have been manifesting itself as "intuition". It's like if someone told me that I am the long-lost son of a billionaire I'm sure if I thought about it I would think "Hmmm, yeah that makes sense, because I already have megalomaniacal tendencies".

 

As for the kiss, LOL!!!! She was only trying to make Han jealous, tho' it was a little odd. I suppose it's better that she kissed Luke instead of Chewie :)

 

Darth Bane created a rule and everyone actually followed it? Since when do bad guys follow rules? And how does 2 Sith vs. a bazillion Jedi create a balance in the Force? To mean that says the Jedi are pretty lame if it only takes 2 Sith to balance it out. lol (And I don't think the Jedi are lame.)

 

They followed Darth Bane's orders because they knew that working patiently two at a time would eventually bring them what they wanted, galactic domination. The balance of the Force was probably only acheived when they killed all but two Jedi, Yoda and Obi-Wan, to counter the two Sith Lords Darth Sidious and Darth Vader.

 

As for the Republic owning the droid and not Obi Wan, that's pushing it. LOL

 

LOL!!!! :P B)

Edited May 23, 2005 by The King

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I can explain why it took 20 years to build the death star: The thing is 120 kilometers in diameter. It's 120 kilometers tall. if each kilometer has about 400 decks, you are talking about something that has 4,800 decks, and it has to have internal support stuff. (Ya know, crew quarters, bathrooms, pipes, light fixtures.) building a 560 foot long, 12 deck tall ship takes alot of effort, and is quite complex with our present technology level in THIS universe. in the Star Wars universe, they have very advanced technology, but still, the Death Star is IMMENSE! this would also mean that the Second Death Star was under construction as early as 14 years before ANH.

 

Edit: Yeah, I did the math wrong, Takara. He was 56 in ANH. But, 56 and 63 aren't that far apart. One thing I noticed (it was actually in the program, I'll give credit where credit is due) is that Ewan McGregor in ROTS and Sir Alec Guiness in ANH actually look somewhat similar. their features match up very closely.

Edited May 23, 2005 by Jim Phaserman

[HRH The KING 0]

Hmmm, it IS possible that they were building a second Death Star in secret while building the first, although the second one was only supposed to be half-completed to fool the Rebel scum, so less time would have been needed for its construction.

[Takara_Soong 4]

In the opening text crawl of ROTJ it says:

 

Little does Luke know that the Galactic Empire has secretly begun construction of a new armoured space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star.

 

from sw.com

 

Twenty years to build the first one and the the second one being under construction for 14 years doesn't fit with this.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I dunnow, they are fairly large. It's a logistical nightmare to try and build a 1,700 foot tower in NYC, which would be the largest man-made structure out there. I think 20 years is reasonable.

[Tina 0]

Twenty years to build the first one and the the second one being under construction for 14 years doesn't fit with this

 

First i think there was a certian time gap between Jedi and Empire. second i didn't think that stations was completly built yet

 

hey i have a question too

 

Click For Spoiler

Anyone notice the Klingon on the Jedi council?Or where Lucas was in the movie? or howabout the Millenium falcon on the wookie planet? Curse me for having Wars freinds

Edited May 23, 2005 by Ambassador tinadoll

[Takara_Soong 4]

I dunnow, they are fairly large. It's a logistical nightmare to try and build a 1,700 foot tower in NYC, which would be the largest man-made structure out there. I think 20 years is reasonable.

325473[/snapback]

 

But the opening crawl of Jedi says that the Empire had BEGUN building the second Death Star. From a timeline I saw TESB was 3 years after ANH and ROTJ was 1 year after TESB. So that means it took less than a year to get the second Death Star mostly built but fully operational. If the second Death Star can be built in such a short period of time then why would it take 20 years to build the first one?

[A l t e r E g o 9]

There were a number of things I didn't understand from AOTC like:

Click For Spoiler

Like with ENT, if we are able to accept some assumptions then answers to some of the problems it appeared to have can be found.

Anakin tells Padme that he "slaughtered" all of the Raiders including women and children and she doesn't flinch. What the heck is with that?!? He confessed to mass murder and she doesn't care.

She was blinded by love.




And Count Dooku(sp?) had the plans for a Death Star in AOTC so why did it take 20+ years for the Empire to build it?

It was the first one, prototypes take longer because of unforeseen problems.




Here's another thing I don't understand - why give Luke to Owen and Beru Lars? It doesn't really seem to be hiding Luke when you give him to Anakin's step-brother living on the same farm Anakin met them at on Anakin's home planet.

He was being hid in plain sight perhaps. It really did not matter imo, the Emperor probably knew along where he was but waited it out. He often says everything is proceeding as I have foreseen so he knew the time would come for Luke to stumble into his trap. One of the things he never foresaw is Vader turning on him. lol

I now realize I have questions that go beyond AOTC. LOL
 
 
 


If Vader could sense the Force in Luke then why couldn't he sense it in Leia?

She did not know she had it (until it was too late) so she could not betray herself by sending out thoughts Vader (or Sidious) would pick up on.




With Darth Sidious' victory, why are there only 2 Sith by the time of ANH?

I agree with Kings answer here.




In ANH, Obi Wan says he doesn't remember ever owning a droid. What about that droid from his ship?

And here




There seemed to be a few situations in TPM and AOTC when "that old Jedi mind trick" would have come in handy. Do they use that "trick" in the prequels?
 
 


I remember once in TPM Gui-Gon (sp?) tried using it on Watto with no luck, Watto was immune or able to block attempts though strength of will (he was not weak minded enough)

 

]Darth Bane created a rule and everyone actually followed it? Since when do bad guys follow rules? And how does 2 Sith vs. a bazillion Jedi create a balance in the Force? To mean that says the Jedi are pretty lame if it only takes 2 Sith to balance it out. lol (And I don't think the Jedi are lame.)

 

[some] bad guys follow rules among themselves up to a point, a point made clear when Bane was murdered. It is like in the Mirror Universe of Trek imo, a uneasy sense of order will be maintained until a chance to grab power opens up then chaos rules while the new leader proves his worth. Then peace seems to be the rule while the stratagem to over throw him begins, round and round it goes.

 

In the opening text crawl of ROTJ it says:

 

Little does Luke know that the Galactic Empire has secretly begun construction of a new armoured space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star.

 

from sw.com

 

Twenty years to build the first one and the the second one being under construction for 14 years doesn't fit with this.

325469[/snapback]

 

It does not say when the second was begun to be built; it could have already been started before the first one was destroyed. The Galaxy is a big place, makes sense a fleet of two death stars would do a better job at squashing resistance than one would. A better question may be why did Sidious not foresee both their destructions. lol

[Ace 0]

Click For Spoiler

...................The actor who played Anakin Skywalker in ROTJ (Sebastian Shaw) was 78 at the time of filming.

 

There were a number of things I didn't understand from AOTC like:

[*]Anakin tells Padme that he "slaughtered" all of the Raiders including women and children and she doesn't flinch. What the heck is with that?!? He confessed to mass murder and she doesn't care. 

[*]And Count Dooku(sp?) had the plans for a Death Star in AOTC so why did it take 20+ years for the Empire to build it?

[*]Here's another thing I don't understand - why give Luke to Owen and Beru Lars? It doesn't really seem to be hiding Luke when you give him to Anakin's step-brother living on the same farm Anakin met them at on Anakin's home planet.

 

 

The age explanations work for me.

 

Let me work on the answers King didn't take. lol. (I agree with the rest of his explanations.)

 

Well, I can't say I agree with Padme's emotionless reaction, but for perspective, Raiders are considered far lass than human. They're "animals" as Lars put it. Without knowing any different, Padme could just have seen it as a little worse than a hunting trip. *shrug*

 

Why did it take so long to build the Death Star? That's easy. Sidious wanted to work out the rest of his plans before beginning construction. There was an all-out war and his enemies were still alive and in great numbers. Having them alive would jeapordize the project. Once Sidious had his new apprentice, his enemies were almost completely wiped out, and his clone forces/ Empire status gave him almost unlimited control, he could focus on the Death Star project.

Once the Rebel forces organized and destroyed the first DS, being so planned-out may not have mattered as much; the Emperor just needed another one.

Hey, no one said the Emperor was smart; his arrogance made him allow the Rebel forces to know the location of the shield generator.

 

Anakin had no reason to look for his kids, much less to look on Tatooine. He had only met Owen once and they technically weren't related at all. Besides, he had no reason to believe his kids were alive.

A- He thought he killed Padme in his fit of rage.

B- Padme was buried with the appearance that she died pregnant.

Even if he learned the truth about A, it was unlikely he'd get past B.

 

In ANH, Obi Wan says he doesn't remember ever owning a droid. What about that droid from his ship?

 

He probably didn't own the droid privately. It was the property of the Republic.

 

Agreed. Stretching, yes, but agreed. lol.

 

There seemed to be a few situations in TPM and AOTC when "that old Jedi mind trick" would have come in handy. Do they use that "trick" in the prequels?

 

Qui-Gonn tried it in TPM on Watto. It didn't work on him though because he was a Toydarian. He DOES however use the Jedi Mind Trick on Boss Nass in Otoh Gunga.

 

Also, Obi-Wan used it on the "death sticks" guy in AOTC.

 

 

As for the "Chosen One" issue:

"Bringing balance to the Force" didn't necessarily mean he would be a messiah figure. It could have meant that he would all but two Jedi to balance the two Sith.

 

From Yoda and Windu's conversation, one could infer that the prophecy was inaccurate and that Luke was actually the chosen one.

 

Otherwise, Anakin did bring "balance" to the force by killing Emperor Palpatine. IMO.

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

Anyone notice the Klingon on the Jedi council?

 

It wasn't a Klingon.

 

It was an Zabrak from the planet Iridonia.

 

He is the same race as Darth Maul.

 

He's called Agen Kolar. He gets smoked by Darth Sidious.

[Takara_Soong 4]

In the opening text crawl of ROTJ it says:

 

Little does Luke know that the Galactic Empire has secretly begun construction of a new armoured space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star.

 

from sw.com

 

Twenty years to build the first one and the the second one being under construction for 14 years doesn't fit with this.

325469[/snapback]

 

It does not say when the second was begun to be built; it could have already been started before the first one was destroyed. The Galaxy is a big place, makes sense a fleet of two death stars would do a better job at squashing resistance than one would. A better question may be why did Sidious not foresee both their destructions. lol[/color]

 

325523[/snapback]

 

The opening text crawl was always used to tell the audience what had happened since the end of the previous movie. The ROTJ crawl says that the Empire had begun to build a second Death Star, not that they had finished constructing it.