Bethlehem 7 Posted May 14, 2005 :sadwalk: I gave it a 10, to be honest how does one rate death :giljotiini: Yes there were other episodes that I liked more. As the show progressed and the clock got closer to the end of the hour I could feel the tears coming to my eyes I was glad my wife and kids were in bed and could not see me. Something about a middle aged fat man crying that I do not think other people should see :lol: I also believe that if there is money to be made Star Trek in some form will be back :thumbup: So I keep the faith that I will see more in my life time until then thanks for DVD's and reruns Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt_Picard 0 Posted May 14, 2005 (edited) I gave it a 10 and I will say this right now... This was not the final to Enterprise. The final to the show was "Terra Prime". "These are the Voyages..." is something into it self. It is not just Enterprise or TNG, but an over all look at something people have to do. People must ask themselves what is worth more to them then anything else. Click For Spoiler For Trip it was that Archer and getting him to Earth and finish what he started at the cost of his life, for Ricker it was telling Picard the truth even thoe he himself could be kicked out of Starfleet. It is differnet for everyone for what might be the hardest choice they ever make, but that choice can chnage history... just like was Star Trek has done. Note from Mod: I took out the coding for size, colour, etc. because it was affecting the use of the spoiler. Takara Edited May 14, 2005 by Takara_Soong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 3 Posted May 14, 2005 Please remember to use spoilers when talking about plot points from the episode. And, yes, deagletime, Click For Spoiler it was good to hear Data's voice and his response to Troi's raincheck request was just so Data. LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chataeya 0 Posted May 14, 2005 OMg, what did I miss? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anslem1701 0 Posted May 14, 2005 Click For Spoiler Okay, since my exectations were so low, I tried to go into it with a fresh mind. I tried to look at it as not an episode, not a consistant story, but, as someone on another fan site has said, an OVA-like excursion for Star Trek itself. With that said, it was not good. Not at all, but I tried to enjoy it as much as I could so I could not be upset about Trek ending this way. I loved the 1701-D shots -- stunning new way to look at the ship. I loved the ending montage -- just gorgeous and poiniant. I think the production crew did an amazing job of trying to recreate the Enterprise-D. There were flaws, but I was pleased enough not to bring them to light. If the episode were just that, it would get a 10 by far. The crew did a great job. The NX-01 actors did an amazing job as well I thought. Though they may not have been happy with the script and story, I think they put their best effort forward and tried to make these "characters" fit with what they had been doing for 4 years now. Props to them as well. Frakes and Sirtis did okay -- they get a 7. The story though -- I'm sorry. 0 score. It made no sense. What did Troi think Riker would get out of this? I guess Trip's story was the main reason for Riker being there, but, there was no direct link between the choice he had to make with Preston and anything else that was going on with the NX-01. And we don't even get to see the speach from Archer? I was a little peeved, but put it past me in order to pretend I was enjoying it. It was everything we didn't need to see, and nothing we should have and wanted to see (story wise). What do I feel? "Loathing. Unadulterated loathing..." [guess the quote, win my respect]. I'm disappointed, but I'm not a basher, so I won't dwell on it, and look forward to the future... "These Are the Voyages..." gets a very, very low 3... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chimei01 0 Posted May 15, 2005 i've looooved the show from the first eps. but the finale was a travesty...the story was strong and the actors great. why did we need riker and troi. they ruined it. i can't believe they had the balls to insult the cast and crew of ST:ENT this way. archer could have said the whole thing on his own... blalock was right...appalling! chimei01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KayTroi 0 Posted May 15, 2005 Eventhough, I gave " These are the Voyages" a 10. I think the last episode could have been two hours instead of one. I think they spoiled it for many of us by showing this episode as a hologram simulation instead of an actual episode. Another thing, they didn't have to kill off one of my favorite characters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8247 0 Posted May 15, 2005 Click For Spoiler I am beyond pissed about this episode. This was a slap in the face to the cast of Enterprise, and the fans. For one, the finale was a TNG episode. Granted, the episode would have been fun as a single episode in the middle of the season, but NOT the finale. No Archer speech? Another insult. But, this finale was more than an insult to just the cast and fans. It was an insult to Jonathan Frakes and the Riker character. Think about it...The same Will Riker who stood up and defied the Borg has to look into the holodeck for inspiration on how to break an order? That wasnt the Will Riker that I knew and admired. Not to mention the fact that Trip's death was over dramatized, and pointless. Did he really need to sacrifice himself to overpower 3 people? His speech when he was beraking Archer's order was NOT Trip. I could go on and on, but as far as I'm concerned, Terra Prime was the finale. I have been an Enterprise supporter since day one, but this "finale" in my opinion was the single worst Trek episode to date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deagletime 1 Posted May 15, 2005 (edited) Click For Spoiler seriously was it really necessary to kill trip? its not like worf died at the end of TNG, or ODO at Ds9 or Harry Kim at voyager made no sense and did not accomplish anything as far as plot development sigh! Edited May 15, 2005 by Ace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deagletime 1 Posted May 15, 2005 i would have been sooooo content if terra prime was the last episode i ever saw of enterprise.. am i wrong in thinking that would have been an adequate finale? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Bolivar 0 Posted May 15, 2005 Good day all! I had to sop by to comment. I was shocked to see you all disliked the episode so much. I think you've all missed the point of it. Click For Spoiler Terra Prime was a great episode with lots of action. It was exciting. The finale doesn't need to be exciting. Exciting episodes are great the first time you watch them, but after that, they lose their excitement because you know exactly what is going to happen. So what the finale needed to do was lend significance to Enterprise within the Star Trek universe. And it did that spectacularly! It shows that the Enterprise crew is not forgotten in history as Riker draws from them for inspiration. As for Trip - he knew that Archer was too important. He realized the importance of a Federation of Planets. The loss of the most prominent person in the negotiations could have endangered that dream for the future. Trip had to ensure Archer's survival. He could have fought them hand to hand, but if he failed the enemies would have returned to Archer and killed him. Trip had to be sure. His sacrifice was made to ensure that the Federation would be born. That's what Star Trek has always been about!!! And Trip was key to it. That makes his contribution extremely significant, not just to Enterprise, but to all of the Star Treks. In conclusion, showing that Enterprise crews from the future are inspired by the NX-01 Enteprise, and Trips sacrfice to the future, lend significance to Enterprise, by intertwineing it with all of Star Trek. It's ending has importance to Star Trek, rather than, merely excite the audience. Voyager's conclusion was merely just a roller coaster ride. So was TNG's all good things. What was so special about that episode? Did it tie up lose ends at all? No. But people loved it because it was exciting. Did it lend significance to TNG. Not at all. And it didn't matter because DS9 was in production - DS9 continued the significance of TNG. Enterprise isn't being followed by another Star Trek series. Thus, the last episode couldn't just be a thrilling episode like Terra Prime. This episode did it's job at making Enterprise MATTER! This was a fantastic finale. 10 out of 10. Enough said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
12181802 0 Posted May 15, 2005 I gave the ep a 3. Terra Prime would be a greater series finale than this one. Click For Spoiler Riker and Troi should have been looking at the past from the Titan not Ent-D if they were going to look at the past. The Pegasus was filmed in around 1994. That is 11 years later, Riker was too big to play Riker from the TNG days. I think about that relating to myself. 11 years ago I was 15. I was a skinny fart and not I have a belly just like Riker. So that is like my own self pretending to be 15 years old. I did like the last scene and epscecially hearing Archer saying, "where no man has gone before." I didn't like the death of Trip idea. It was stupid. If this episode was in TNG might have been good but to be the ENT finale. Last ep ever was awful. I believe or think that his episode might be the worst Trek episode ever. Good luck to the cast and crew of Enterprise. I don't want to see B & B writing any more Trek movies or shows as well. The network, production company, and two of the producers really treated something really special to me really poorly. Thanks, Brandon (12181802) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 3 Posted May 15, 2005 Click For Spoiler That is 11 years later, Riker was too big to play Riker from the TNG days. I think about that relating to myself. 11 years ago I was 15. I was a skinny fart and not I have a belly just like Riker. So that is like my own self pretending to be 15 years old. 324466[/snapback] Click For Spoiler For the record, Jonathan Frakes' TNG uniform had to be taken IN because he had lost weight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frosty 0 Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) I rarely post on this site, yet I'm an avid TOS, TNG and ENT fan. I wanted to view the results of this poll prior to voting, yet now the site says I've already voted, when I have not. Anyway............... "These are the Voyages....." Typical of BnB writting. Especially how they wrote what happens to Trip. Apparently they had 5 minutes to fill, and this was the only thing they could think of. Typical of their lack luster writting. They could have used that time instead for Archer's speech and other details of the matter. Still, sad to see Enterprise go. I really enjoyed the show, most of the time, and it had its moments. Mostly during the 3rd and 4th seasons. I will say, These are the Voyages... was a major let down. Yeah, I'm a big TNG fan, but the way this episode was scripted and tried to tie things together was pathetic. The ending was touchy, yet all the 'valentines' BnB injected still shows why ENT and Star Trek in general has experienced a major falling out with the fans. Ugh, I could go on and on. I more pissed than upset. Pissed that BnB couldn't come up with anything else more fullfilling and entertaining as a Series Finale. Hopefully when Star Trek returns, it will be helmed by others than BnB. They alone (and many other news/magazines agree) have run Trek into the ground. Although, it appears Mr. Les Mooves had a hand in Trek's demise as well. Live long and prosper everyone.... Edited May 16, 2005 by Frosty Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted May 16, 2005 I missed the broadcast on Friday so I got to watch it tonight, I thought it was great. I just wish the show would continue. Click For Spoiler I was a little disappointed that at the very end they only gave linkage to TNG and TOS. I would have really liked to have had DS9 and Voyager acknowledged but I understand why they didn't since neither of those shows were on the Enterprise. I thought the ending was a fitting one though and liked the way they tied it in with a TNG episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mj 7 Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) Okay, I think I will give it an 8. Click For Spoiler First, I have to say, like I have been saying all along when we were discussing Trip's impending death in other threads, that anything that is done can be undone. But even more so, since Trip's death took place 6 years after Terra Prime, if there was a movie or if some wise Sci Fi channel execs decided to pick up where the series let off on UPN, then they could start right after Terra Prime, and Trip would be alive and well! Trip is dead in the current show's 'future.' I agree with many that the plot was poorly executed. But I think that Captain Picard and Captain Bolivar make a good point about self-sacrifice and hard decisions being at the heart of the plot. It was just so poorly executed. But it was a nice idea. They take a TNG episode that we know, and attempt to show that Riker went through a real struggle to decide to break a long held silence, and somehow ( and this is where the execution was poor---as has been pointed out by most folks who have stated an opinion about the episode) looked back on well-known events of the past involving the NX-01 to find an answer for himself. The plot was too rushed, and poorly executed. Trip's death was rushed and the crew reaction was almost imperceptible, as someone pointed out above. All told, it could have been a good ending if it was just written better. Edited May 16, 2005 by mj Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MoulinRouge 0 Posted May 16, 2005 i would have been sooooo content if terra prime was the last episode i ever saw of enterprise.. am i wrong in thinking that would have been an adequate finale? No, you're not wrong. I'm just sick thinking about what an appropriate finale "Terra Prime" would have been for this cast of characters. :blink: Why couldn't Berman and Braga have just left well enough alone? :) I am so mad at them. ENT could have gone out a winner with one spectacular finale season....but no. Of course not. 2/10. Terra Prime gets an "A" "These Are the Voyages" gets a big fat "F." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 3 Posted May 16, 2005 I've watched this episode 4 times now and the more I watch it the better it gets. I believe as time goes by that this episode will be appreciated much more than it is now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MoulinRouge 0 Posted May 16, 2005 (edited) Endgame didn't get better with time. I'm sorry, but I think "These Are They Voyages" may have just buried Trek for a long time. It casts a pall over everything. That's not going to get better. The script disrespected every single character. I was bracing myself for it to be bad and I was still shocked. Enterprise went out with a whimper. :blink: Edited May 16, 2005 by MoulinRouge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deagletime 1 Posted May 16, 2005 Hopefully this will take the edge off of the way the finale turned out Got it off ST.com/forums TnT Video Scrapbook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted May 16, 2005 I can understand why some people think it was bad, I really enjoyed it though. I stayed away from all spoilers and previews for the final episode so I knew nothing about any of it until it came on. I was pleased to see them take a well known TNG episode and merge it into Enterprise. I liked the fact that they took us up to the point of the formation of the Federation but was disappointed that they cut it off when they did. I would have liked it better if they had focused more on the Enterprise characters rather then on Riker and Troi but I felt that it was a good episode. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mj 7 Posted May 16, 2005 I've watched this episode 4 times now and the more I watch it the better it gets. I believe as time goes by that this episode will be appreciated much more than it is now. 324567[/snapback] [sigh] With no new Star trek episodes to look to, all we can do is what many of us have done for years, and that is watch what we have over and over again. I kinda liked it better the second time I watched it, but I still think it was poorly executed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 5 Posted May 16, 2005 I had such low expectations for this finale that when I finally watched it I was like, 'well, that was OK'..The second time watching it I liked it even more. I'm giving it an 8..I would have ranked it higher if only Click For Spoiler we had heard Archer's speech. I'm still quite upset that we didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Ericks 0 Posted May 17, 2005 I think that 'These are the Voyages' would have made agreat stand alone episode. Not the series finale. I gave it a 7.5. I can say nothing that anyone else hasn't already said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LordOfTheBorg 1 Posted May 17, 2005 I give it a ten, it was awesome! I thought it was hilarious how fat frakes has gotten, you could see his big belly in his uniform. I was laughing, because he's gained weight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiraxTerrik 0 Posted May 18, 2005 I gave it an 8.5. It wasn't the best finale but it wasn't bad. Jessica Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kor37 9 Posted May 18, 2005 I thought it was pretty lame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
terrafirma54 0 Posted May 25, 2005 (edited) TATFV - was an insult to Star Trek fans.Rick Berman wanted to tie Enterprise into the last 18 years of Star Trek.The idea was poorly executed.Enterprise could have been connected in away that honored the show.Instead it became a cut & paste job.What was Rick Berman thinking? Click For Spoiler The death of Trip was not needed.His death along with Kirk's demise in Generations was a kick in the teeth.If Trip must die then it should have been done in a way that respected the character.I read that R Berman wanted to kill off Trip and TATFV was already written before the cancellation was made.HMMMMMMM....I also felt that Shran's character was thrown away.I have seen each of the 5 Star Trek series.The last episode of TNG was fine it was the last two movies that killed the spirit of that Star Trek.Voyager ended fine it did need another 30 minutes.DS9 ended beautifully-everything was done just right.This past year on Enterprise showed that this series had the right stuff-there was so much potential left.TATFV ended up undoing all that was done during the season.I have written out a rewrite of this epiosde,Trekunited will have it posted at thier fanzine/magazine site.There are many other inconsistencies with TATFV that it isn't funny. Last week I saw an episode of Enterprise.The crew finally returns home after the events in Storm Front Watching the story unfold it pains me to think of what TATFV threw away.As far as I am concerned Enterprise ended with Demons PT 2.Yes there some glitches but overall it held together .The last scene where Archer speaks to the delegates -that is how I will remember Enterprise ending.I can only hope that somehow that awful "final' epiosde TATFV will somehow be re-done.Where is Q when you need him? :( mod's note: spoiler added Edited May 25, 2005 by Takara_Soong Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moyan 0 Posted May 25, 2005 I was very disappointed with this episode in particular. All around,.. Click For Spoiler the last 5 seamed to be thrown together last minute or something. The Mirror Universe plot could have gotten a little thicker in my opinion, it seemed to kind of cut off in the middle. Other than that, i thought the 2 MU episode were good Now, the final 3 i have a few problems with. I like Terra Prime and Demons (I'm considering those the be the TRUE finale. Click For Spoiler It seems like the general plot behind Demons and Terra Prime could have been a wonderful lead into a 5th season, and it seems like that might have been this plots original intent. It all seemed kind.... compressed. Couldn't you just imagine it,... isolationist and xenophobic humans increase by the thousands, ... Alliances begin to crumble,... it just seems like it would have been a great way to show one last Great divide among humans before the creation of the federation These are the Voyages, left me disillusioned and dissatisfied. Click For Spoiler It had little to do with ENT itself, and as was previously mentions, little things like people not advancing in rank after 10yrs, the loose moral connection between Riker's Pegasus dilemma, and Trip's unwarranted sacrifice. Its a great episode, but its no finale. I don't recall any ST finale, as irrelevant, and disconnected from the main plot as this. Now as for Trip's incident, I was actually excited when i saw the explosion. Thats because i expected Trip to emerge from sickbay with a huge plasma burn scaring his face, .... like Trip's MU counterpart had. I simply thought it would have been an interesting parallel to the MU. However he did not emerge with a scar,... he died. His sacrifice had NO direct impact on anything but the immediate plot of THAT episode. It had nothing to do with anything else.... His death,... was unimportant, and that is insulting. Someone compared it to Tasha Yarr's senseless death, but that was different, She died at the end of the 1st season, Her death made an impact on the Crew and on future episodes (I liked how she turned out to have a romulan daughter,.. that was cool) But THIS,..... had nothing........ .... i gave it a 4 Click For Spoiler Oh ya,.. now, granted.. i really wasnt able to keep up with ENT, i missed lots of episodes, and i missed the entire 1st season,... but i dont recall people using the chef as a counselor,..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
