Education vs Indoctrination: The Difference

[Theunicornhunter 2]

What is the difference between indoctrination and education?

 

And who decides what everyone else should know or think

 

Two questions that should be given some thought before responding. I got the idea from reading a couple of news stories regarding our public school systems. I am not going to reference those stories because I don't want to get off on a debate of the specifics of those issues.

 

There is an old saying that "hard cases make bad law". That roughly means that when you make a ruling on the apparent circumstances rather than think of the longtime implications you've made things worse instead of better.

 

In our school system that can be applied as: "I believe X so I think it's fine that schools force everyone to beieve X. Well, what happens when they want to force Y, and that's okay with everyone else because everyone but you believes Y?

 

Just in case it wasn't clear what the questions were - they're highlighted above in color.

Edited May 8, 2005 by TheUnicornHunter

[Data 0]

My understanding of education is that it is for making children or adults more productive and imformed people. It could be for job skills or appreciation of life. As for philosephy and religion, that should not be directed but shown. There is only one subject that has concrete right and wrong answers. That subject is math.

Edited May 8, 2005 by Data

[Krissy Phaserman 0]

To answer the first question, TUH, in many cases, I don't think the difference can be clearly defined. and I know you probably don't want to hear this, but Private schools are just as bad about it (and sometimes worse) than public schools. the main problem a Public school has is it has to teach to a diverse audience. a Private school generally has a less diverse student body, and can teach to the point of view of those students represented.

 

And who really decides what students learn? Well for public schools, it's the government-a government of politicians, not teachers. School boards are forced to follow state and federal education guidlines laid out by men and women who, especially on the Federal level, haven't seen the inside of a classroom in years (sometimes DECADES). as for private schools, they still have to follow the state and federal guidelines, but they have a bit more freedom in how or what they teach. I personally think that the people deciding the ciriculum should be the Parents and Teachers. believe it or not (and some of you won't, I can garuantee it), Parents and teachers DO know what is in the child's best interests, and they sure as hell have a much better understanding of it than your Senator or Congressman does.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I'll go ahead and answer my own first question. IMO, education involves teaching critical reasoning skills - ie teaching a person to think analytically - how to see both sides of a position and how to "compare and contrast" the options available (do they still teach essay writing like that). Indoctrination is more of "this is the way it is and this is what you should believe" and the government definitely does the latter on certain issues.

 

Many private schools do so as well but at least the parent has the option of which indoctrination the student will receive. I'm not really sure what guidelines private school or home schooling involves because they certainly have leeway that public schools don't.

 

Generally I agree a parent has the right to choose their child's education but then you get into a grey area. There are some scary people home schooling their children but then "scary" is a subjective quality.

[trekz 7]

the main problem a Public school has is it has to teach to a diverse audience. a Private school generally has a less diverse student body, and can teach to the point of view of those students represented.

 

And who really decides what students learn? Well for public schools, it's the government-a government of politicians, not teachers. School boards are forced to follow state and federal education guidlines laid out by men and women who, especially on the Federal level, haven't seen the inside of a classroom in years (sometimes DECADES). as for private schools, they still have to follow the state and federal guidelines, but they have a bit more freedom in how or what they teach. I personally think that the people deciding the ciriculum should be the Parents and Teachers. believe it or not (and some of you won't, I can garuantee it), Parents and teachers DO know what is in the child's best interests, and they sure as hell have a much better understanding of it than your Senator or Congressman does.

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Having a diverse audience could be an opportunity to show different customs, cultures, points of view, etc, rather than a problem (though problems of communication and fluency can hinder education.)

Many federal representatives and bureaucrats have not seen the inside of a school in far too long, although many school board members could use more educational and management expertise to help guide their administrators in running local schools.

 

I'll go ahead and answer my own first question.  IMO, education involves teaching critical reasoning skills - ie teaching a person to think analytically - how to see both sides of a position and how to "compare and contrast" the options available (do they still teach essay writing like that).  Indoctrination is more of "this is the way it is and this is what you should believe" and the government definitely does the latter on certain issues.

 

Many private schools do so as well but at least the parent has the option of which indoctrination the student will receive.  I'm not really sure what guidelines private school or home schooling involves because they certainly have leeway that public schools don't.

 

Generally I agree a parent has the right to choose their child's education but then you get into a grey area.  There are some scary people home schooling their children but then "scary" is a subjective quality.

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I strongly AGREE that critical reasoning skills and analytical thinking are to me, as a former teacher and with many relatives in the teaching profession, essential in education. Learning how to learn, study skills, etc will also be crucial since it is expected that people will change careers several times in their lives in the future.

 

Homeschooling can be great depending on the teacher but could be rife with problems.

 

A big problem in the US and in other coutries are the text books and text book publishers. While there can be supplemental materials brought in, often teachers and school districts because of money and time constraints rely solely on textbooks as the main source of curriculum information. Choosing a poor or highly doctrinaire texbook can affect many children adversely. To me indoctrination is to teach systematically partisan ideas. Truly critical thinking is the enemy of indoctrination. I think of the "reeducation camps" in China as a prime example of indoctrination, although recently there have been some indications that some religions are using textbooks that tend to give just one viewpoint.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

Generally I agree a parent has the right to choose their child's education but then you get into a grey area.  There are some scary people home schooling their children but then "scary" is a subjective quality.

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I like seeing parents get elected to the school board. I know at the school I am going to teach at, at least 2 board members are parents of present students, and the president of the board has been around the district for years (He's been around so long, his SON has been the head coach of the Girl's Basketball team for something like 10 years...) these board members know what's going on in the school, and know what needs to be changed. However, not all school boards are like that. in larger cities, where one school board governs many schools (IE: San Diego Unified School District runs all of the Middle and Elementary schools in the city of San Diego, and there are alot of them) the board members are more politicians than educators. Some people think ALL the school districts should become one. I disagree. I think a school district should be a district that governs at most 4 or 5 schools (Which you commonly find up in the Northern Suburbs of Chicago...the district I am working for has only one school.)

 

 

Now back on topic. the words "Educate" and "Indoctrinate" can be used interchangably for the most part in America's schools, public or private. the most common form of "Teaching" is the lecture, which means the teacher stands up in front of the class and rattles off facts. the teaching style I prefere is what is refered to as the Socratic method. A student asks you a question, you respond with a question. If done right, you can make the student answer their own questions, and it gets them to do something many schools hate: THINK. American schools are based on the idea of Rote Memorisation, which is just a step or two away from indoctrinisation. Students really don't learn anything, they just remember it until the final then dismiss it.