Nemesis 0 Posted June 1, 2004 Most bashing of Enterprise does not bother me, but when people bash Berman it really does. Many people go around bashing Berman a lot and frankly I'm getting sick of it. You don't like Enterprise? Thats ok, you don't like Voyager? Thats ok, you don't like DS9? Thats ok. Just because Berman has produced and written of what you don't like does not mean squat because most of these bashers say that they love TNG, well hello Berman produced most of TNG! The series didn't even reach it's high point until he took over the series. While he was in charge TNG was the first television show in syndication to ever recieve an emmy! A lot of people don't like DS9, VOY, and ENT. Well guess what, a lot more people do! Berman evolved Trek so that it would appeal to more people and spread the message of trek. Berman is not an idiot, of course he's made some mistakes but nothing compared to the leaps and bounds he gave Star Trek. So next time you blindly bash Berman think about Trek history and your claims diminish greatly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaleman 0 Posted June 1, 2004 I don't care for him mainly for comments he's made or things he's done, not because of episodes :angry:. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Shirt Volunteer 0 Posted June 1, 2004 I agree that there is a lot of unfair criticism. I recall he once said that Trek would always have a large fan base or something along those lines. A lot of fans, likely disgruntled ones that just didn't take to recent productions, claimed he was taking them for granted. That's one way to look at it, but another is to take it as an understanding and appreciation of the strong fan base the franchise enjoys. On the other hand, we're talking about TV viewers so maybe we shouldn't expect too much intelligence. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted June 1, 2004 If you look at the ratings, you'll see the majorit of the fanbase begin to shrink as the series began to go under the direction of berman... I really do think that Berman has taken the old fanbase for granted... I really think that he should have gone on with something like TNG. I don't like how he's trying to reach a new fanbase. It's not going to work and has not been working... I have been a trekkie since when I was 5. I've seen the appearance of Voyager and ENT, and it disturbs me at the Comments that Berman makes towards some of the fans. I also disagree with him bringing in some action director to spice up a movie. The guy doesn't know s*** about Trek. He called a turbolift an elevator!!! I hope that Trek doesn't turn into an action series. If it comes to that point I may as well stop watching. I didn't watch Trek for the actio, I watched it for the exploration of values and of humanity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted June 1, 2004 If you look at the ratings, you'll see the majorit of the fanbase begin to shrink as the series began to go under the direction of berman... I beg to differ with you. I found a very interesting piece written by Greg Fuller in 1999 at The Trek Nation. Here are a list of the number of households that watched Trek starting in 1987: Fall 1987 - Spring 1988: 8.55 Million Fall 1988 - Spring 1989: 9.14 Million Fall 1989 - Spring 1990: 9.77 Million Fall 1990 - Spring 1991: 10.58 Million Fall 1991 - Spring 1992: 11.50 Million Fall 1992 - Spring 1993: 10.83 Million Fall 1993 - Spring 1994: 9.78 Million Fall 1994 - Spring 1995: 7.05 Million Fall 1995 - Spring 1996: 6.42 Million Fall 1996 - Spring 1997: 5.03 Million Fall 1997 - Spring 1998: 4.53 Million Fall 1998 - Spring 1999: 4.00 Million As Rick Berman was basically running things by 1989 as Gene Roddenberry's health began to fail you can see a steady increase in ratings. The article mentioned above had some very interesting comments about the decrease in ratings: increased competition in the sci-fi market and UPN being a crappy network amongst them. Another thing people need to remember is Rick Berman has devoted almost 20 years of his life to Star Trek. If he didn't believe in it why would he stay? The one thing that bothers me the most about Berman bashers is their belief that only Gene Roddenberry knew Trek. Would the bashers rather have had the franchise die with Gene Roddenberry? These same people who revere Mr. Roddenberry are critisizing the man Mr. Roddenberry hand picked as his successor. In a way, critisizing Mr. Berman is indirectly critisizing Mr. Roddenberry's judgment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scaleman 0 Posted June 2, 2004 Takara, first off if paramount had given Gene a DECENT way to pick a succesor and he STILL picked berman, i wouldn't be as iritated as i am. There's also the fact that as previously stated that berman picked a director who, basically, knew nothing about trek besides it was "some sorta sci-fi that takes place in space" etc. There are PLENTY of people out there right now that do a GREAT job with their own works. I'd like to point out the director of Hidden Frontier for 1 . And the point you made about new channels is a good one. But besides the point, i guess after working for this many years as a director berman may be getting tired of it, to be frank. We may need some "new blood", regardless whether berman is "at fault". Trying to balance myself here guys, is it working? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fenriz275 0 Posted June 2, 2004 Has it occured to anyone that there are more scifi shows on TV now than when TNG was new? I think increased competition may be pulling the number of viewers down as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theunicornhunter 2 Posted June 2, 2004 I'm not sure that quality issues with VOY and ENT are Berman's fault as much as UPN's fault. However, Berman didn't score any points with me in an interview I read once. He made a statement to the effect that Star Trek was targeted towards men and those were the opinions that mattered. Hmmmppfff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takara_Soong 4 Posted June 2, 2004 Takara, first off if paramount had given Gene a DECENT way to pick a succesor and he STILL picked berman, i wouldn't be as iritated as i am. There's also the fact that as previously stated that berman picked a director who, basically, knew nothing about trek besides it was "some sorta sci-fi that takes place in space" etc. Were you there when Gene Roddenberry chose Rick Berman. Any interviews with Majel Barrett that I have read or seen regarding Mr. Roddenberry chosing Mr. Berman have indicated he was very happy with his choice. And if you are talking about Nemesis, Paramount picked the director - not Rick Berman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Star Trek Fan 0 Posted June 2, 2004 I don't like Berman, but I won't bash him... However, I will bash Enterprise... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tina 0 Posted June 2, 2004 ::wonders who is responsible for the bad Trek:: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nemesis 0 Posted June 2, 2004 I'm not sure that quality issues with VOY and ENT are Berman's fault as much as UPN's fault. However, Berman didn't score any points with me in an interview I read once. He made a statement to the effect that Star Trek was targeted towards men and those were the opinions that mattered. Hmmmppfff. THANK YOU UH! How many people know how many times Berman has fought with UPN to help Trek but they give those stupid ideas and ruin things wanting more action, sex, and BS. Harry I find it funny that your name is "Harry Kim" hmmmm, who was the exec producer to Voyager? Oh my! Was Berman! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted June 2, 2004 I'm not sure that quality issues with VOY and ENT are Berman's fault as much as UPN's fault. However, Berman didn't score any points with me in an interview I read once. He made a statement to the effect that Star Trek was targeted towards men and those were the opinions that mattered. Hmmmppfff. THANK YOU UH! How many people know how many times Berman has fought with UPN to help Trek but they give those stupid ideas and ruin things wanting more action, sex, and BS. Harry I find it funny that your name is "Harry Kim" hmmmm, who was the exec producer to Voyager? Oh my! Was Berman! people have names coming from characters because they like the characters.... not the producers They would rather post without having to receive criticism from people about carrying those character's names... Nemesis, your attack was unfounded and blatant... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Shirt Volunteer 0 Posted June 2, 2004 But besides the point, i guess after working for this many years as a director berman may be getting tired of it, to be frank. We may need some "new blood", regardless whether berman is "at fault". Trying to balance myself here guys, is it working? What the heck are you talking about? He's a producer, not a director. If you can't even get these two jobs straight, it's hard to take anything you say with more than a grain of salt. People complain about him mixing up an elevator and a turbolift. Guess what? A turbolift is a kind of elevator if you just think about it. Perhaps he was trying to explain what he meant to some not very Trek-savvy journalist. I'm not sure about this, but I am pretty sure a director and a producer are quite different. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nemesis 0 Posted June 2, 2004 people have names coming from characters because they like the characters.... not the producers Where do you think the characters come from? Why do you think they are accepted to the series, it's because of the "producers" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Odie 0 Posted June 2, 2004 The only thing that I want Berman is slow Star Trek. The market has become flooded with it. It may or may not be his fault, but that what you get when you put your name on a product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Guest Posted June 2, 2004 But besides the point, i guess after working for this many years as a director berman may be getting tired of it, to be frank. We may need some "new blood", regardless whether berman is "at fault". Trying to balance myself here guys, is it working? :P What the heck are you talking about? He's a producer, not a director. If you can't even get these two jobs straight, it's hard to take anything you say with more than a grain of salt. People complain about him mixing up an elevator and a turbolift. Guess what? A turbolift is a kind of elevator if you just think about it. Perhaps he was trying to explain what he meant to some not very Trek-savvy journalist. I'm not sure about this, but I am pretty sure a director and a producer are quite different. It was on the Nemesis extra features... He was not explaining it to a journalist.... right now, he's acting like the director... They have more scenes in the making of nemesis in the extra features that show him than the director... The directors seem to have less power than he does.... He is actually a writer/producer... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted June 2, 2004 woops... that was my post... I forgot to log on... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Shirt Volunteer 0 Posted June 2, 2004 Fine, he writes, too. The point remains that a producer and a director are not the same thing. Do you get it yet? And who was he explaining the comment to? And who cares? Everytime the guy opens his mouth some wannabe starts to dissect every word he says, misconstrue, twist and warp the meaning into something that supposedly isn't Trekkie enough. I can't believe the man even bothers at this point because it's not like he needs the money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WEAREBORG4102 0 Posted June 3, 2004 I get it because I did some stuff in theatre structure... in theatre class... it was on the nemesis DVD. The director called a turbolift an elevator!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nemesis 0 Posted June 3, 2004 I get it because I did some stuff in theatre structure... in theatre class... it was on the nemesis DVD. The director called a turbolift an elevator!!! Well it is an elevator... Again UPN chose the director not Berman... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
