Archer/Vulcan Relations

[SuraksSoul 0]

We all know how Archer feels about Vulcans. The whole backstory of how they withheld vital information from Henry Archer. We can see that from the beginning of season 1, things were tense between Archer and especially the Vulcan ambassador. However, "Cease Fire" seemed to bring better relations about. Or did it? Is there a conspiracy going on to prevent Enterprise's success and will it become a story arc in the future? I feel that there is still something fishy going on with the Vulcans. Thoughts please!

[Tank 0]

I agree that there is something fishy going on. It is obvious that the Vulcans want Enterprise to fail. However over time I believe that Archer and crew are slowly proving themselves to the Vulcans. I think perhaps by the end of the series tanks to Archer and the NX-01 the Vulcans will finally start respecting the humans. Thus the United Federation of Planets will be born.

[trekbabe 0]

I think tank has got it spot on regarding the Archer/Vulcan dynamic.

[jdigs 0]

..must fight disdain of Vulcans. .make own opinon...I think Archer definitly has an up-hill battle but does get some help from Ms."Buoyancy" herself as she is learning more about humans and keeping reports. I think about it this way, if we humans get into space and start thinking we own the place and then discover other beings :alien: and have them flying around, we'd be suspicious too.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I think Archer will be pivotal in the creation of the Federation. The way he dealt with the Andorians in The Andorian Incident, then Shran not being able to sleep because he owed a debt to the Pink Skins and helping to rescue him. Finally asking for Archer to help in Cease Fire. We are seeing the seeds of the Federation as they are being planted, have no doubts.

 

I think after Cease Fire the Vulcans have a tad bit more respect for not only Archer but humanity in general. I'm hoping that by season 4 we will begin to see the Federation being formed.

 

I know this is at lease 4 or 5 years down the road but can anyone see a series taking shape after Enterprise but before TOS? Could be interesting but I'd want it to happen after Enterprise has had it's 7 years.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

We all know how Archer feels about Vulcans.  The whole backstory of how they withheld vital information from Henry Archer.  We can see that from the beginning of season 1, things were tense between Archer and especially the Vulcan ambassador.  However, "Cease Fire" seemed to bring better relations about.  Or did it?  Is there a conspiracy going on to prevent Enterprise's success and will it become a story arc in the future?  I feel that there is still something fishy going on with the Vulcans.  Thoughts please!

I believe there is more than meets the eye in regards to relations between Earth and Vulcan. I remember reading Trek novels as long ago as 10 years which were exploring the idea's of conspiracy's and skullduggery going on between the two races even in Kirks time so the idea is not a new one, thank goodness. Long Live ENT!

 

I think perhaps by the end of the series tanks to Archer and the NX-01 the Vulcan’s will finally start respecting the humans.

 

Yeah things will seem to improve on the surface but a LOT is going to be going on the Vulcan home world. Referring to my earlier statements about novels,

 

(Please bear with me here, I understand they are non canon but I truly believe many aspects are going to be drawn from them unless the crybabies have gotten their way and the "new direction" for ENT means spoiling it for the hard core fans and changing it to be more "popular" )

 

this alliance with Humans is not going to set well with Hugh portions of the Vulcan populations

 

(remember their attitudes so far? Well if B&B don’t let their cocoanuts shrink and stick to the pathways I have been seeing opening up, I think we ain't seen nothing yet. Hope, hope.)

 

and things should get very interesting as far as mirroring real world events.

 

I think Archer will be pivotal in the creation of the Federation.

 

Without a doubt, remember when Archer was writing the preface to that book? He was being groomed to become one of the author's of the Federation Charters imo.

 

I know this is at lease 4 or 5 years down the road but can anyone see a series taking shape after Enterprise but before TOS?

 

That would be great! But alas, unless ENT become's a runaway hit,

I feel they will handle that period of time the same way as they did with the time period between TOS and TNG, as a place for novelists to shine but I hope I am wrong about this. The period between ENT and TOS is a more fertile ground to continue a new series with and I hope they would see that as well and take the opportunity.

 

Thank you SuraksSoul for this place to vent!

[ddillard 2]

I think the relations will get better. I am not so sure that the vulcans WANT Enterprise to fail as they are convinced that they will. Don't get me wrong, I am not a big fan of the vulcans in the ENT era, but I can kind of see there point of view. I mean if we saw neanderthol man lauching an aircraft carrier wouldn't we expect them to fail? I think that this is how the Vulcans see humanity at this point.

[SuraksSoul 0]

I mean if we saw neanderthol man lauching an aircraft carrier wouldn't we expect them to fail?  I think that this is how the Vulcans see humanity at this point.

Great analogy. Archer's gung-ho/cowboy style isn't exactly the smoothest approach either and I can see why the Vulcans have their aprehensions about him. I guess that we'll have to wait to see if the answer to this question will be fufilled in later seasons!

[cptwright 1]

i can see the vulcans point too. after all our "young humanitarian ways" arent anything compared to these species that have been around thousands of years before us. who are we to think our ways are better, and to try to push our views on the rest of the universe. what arogance we humans have.

[ddillard 2]

I agree that it would be aragant to force our views on other races. Also, look at how many of the Vulcans practices that we have broken that have proven to bite us in the but in the course of the episodes. Like going to planets before having a probe scan the place first.

[bassgirl 0]

i like the idea of a vulcan conspiracy.....i like the idea that vulcans are still developing as well as humans! its so neat to see them in enterprise and compare to later series!

[Stelfan 0]

not that i would like to be witheld information, but the vulcans were right, earth was not ready, and it is hardly now, but archer is learning and that is what makes the series so good, archer makes a lot of mistakes but it's the learning that makes it interesting.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

I mean if we saw neanderthol man lauching an aircraft carrier wouldn't we expect them to fail?  I think that this is how the Vulcans see humanity at this point.

The fact they (Neanderthal) built it in the first place might give me reason to think they were not as primitive as I thought and 2nd, if they launch it and it floats (doesn’t sink) then I might begin to wonder what else about them I had underestimated.

[cptwright 1]

I mean if we saw neanderthol man lauching an aircraft carrier wouldn't we expect them to fail?  I think that this is how the Vulcans see humanity at this point.

The fact they (Neanderthal) built it in the first place might give me reason to think they were not as primitive as I thought and 2nd, if they launch it and it floats (doesn’t sink) then I might begin to wonder what else about them I had underestimated.

thats very good thinking, and logical. too bad the "logical" vulcans didnt look at it that way.

[Bakula Bird 0]

I don't think it would kill the Vulcans to have a little optimism sometimes... even if they are THAT sure that humans are numbnuts and will fail, maybe if they offer more assistance things would be more to their liking. They sit on their pedestals saying how primitive humans are and how arrogant they are, but they are far more arrogant. They had to start out somewhere, have they forgotten that? They should be encouraging people of Earth, not beating them down and with-holding information. They are definitely dodgy and i think something major will occur in maybe the next season or one after that where Archer seriously knocks them down off their pedestal and shows them that they too have weaknesses and are not the almighty superior race that they think they are. 'Nuff said, rant over, and yes i do feel better!!! :devil:

[SuraksSoul 0]

Well said Bakula Bird! It is easy to blast people for their 'downfalls', but sometimes it is even harder to remember where you came from!

[xenexian 2]

I also believe that part of the Vulcan problem is that they don't really understand the human equation. Our curiosity and willingness to take chances. Deep down they may have already foreseen the role that humanity is going to play in the coming centuries. Vulcans were already exploring the spaceways as early as our mid to late 20th century, as seen on Carbon Creek. And here come the humans willing to make the jump into that great unknown simply because it is there and we've got a full tank of gas. Hasn't anyone noticed the Enterprise crews face's scream "ROAD TRIP!", whenever they jump to warp? From these humble beginnings on Earth, the vulcans have tried to act as mentor to humanity but, of course, have found us completely illogical. Perhaps the idea of humanity one day becoming the driving force and major player in the upcoming Federation is what really bothers them. Afterall, they were there first.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

Perhaps the idea of humanity one day becoming the driving force and major player in the upcoming Federation is what really bothers them.  Afterall, they were there first.

That's probably true, but Vulcans would NEVER admit it LOL

[ddillard 2]

Also, I am beginning to wonder if the Vulcans do have faith in humanity. They seem to be watching humanity awful close, and have been there to "bail ENT out" on a few occasions. Maybe, just maybe, they are watching over humanity to make sure that we do succeed.

[thayln 0]

I don't think that Vulcans are that underhanded. Sure they had a listening post at P'Jem, but they had reasons to not trust the Andorians.

 

I think they trully believe that humanity isn't ready to face what's out there and that they know best. Vulcan is obviously in a very conservative swing as evidenced by things like the prejudice against telepathy. They just haven't been rubbing up againt humans long enough to have the hard edges smoothed down. I've always thought that Vulcans and Humans are the perfect foils for each other. Vulcans keep Humans from letting their emotions run away with them, and Humans help Vulcans remember that they have a sense of humor. After all, Vulcan baiting is every Human's favorite game, is it not?

 

All of the personal relationships between Humans and Vulcans that we have been shown have been very intense with a fierce loyalty. Either counterpart will defy their own race to protect their counterpart. We see that developing between T'Pol and Archer now in a big way.

 

MAJOR SPOILER for 3rd season:

 

Click for Spoiler:

I think that the act of T'Pol resigning from the Vulcan High Command to stay on Enterprise is definately going to be a major step forward. The Vulcans are going to have to ask themselves: what is it about Humans that a highly placed Vulcan would defy her own people and choose to accompany them on what the Vulcans believe is a suicide mission?

 

 

I think that at some point the Enterprise and Earth is going to majorly pull the Vulcan's fat out of the fire and that will forge the bond between the races that we see in the later episodes. If Enterprise offered to sacrifice themselves to save the Vulcan people in some way, that would do it. I'd like to see that episode.

 

Later,

thayln

 

"A flicker, a shimmer, a passing thought in the endless silent ruminations of the universe, the USS Enterprise cruises through on patrol." Diane Duane

[cptwright 1]

i think for the most part the vulcans know that we humans try to do the honorable thing, if not always the logical thing. we all have our pros and cons, and they know our cons coulld be worse. so their taking a liking to us already, and i dont think that theres any kind of huge conspiracy or anything.

[ddillard 2]

I definitely think it would advance the relationship if the humans had to bail.the Vulcans out of a really bad situation where the humans had to seriously risk their lives to pull it off.