Women's history Month

[Theunicornhunter 2]

March is women's history month...

 

I already know a couple of naysayers are warming up their keypads ready to add why they think we shouldn't celebrate any group's individual history.

 

Well, I have found most history classes concentrates on wars, discoveries and conquests and the daily lives of people is often omitted. By reviewing the lives of women throughout history you'll get an overview of what everyone's life was like.

 

I few years ago historian Laurel Thatcher Ulrich published the "The Midwife's Tale" these were excerpts taken from the journal of a midwife who practiced in 18th century Massachusetts. It was a very interesting book.

 

For example:

One of the midwives duties if there was an unwed mother was to ask the father's name at the peak of delivery (by this point they were usually glad to divulge). The midwife reported to the town council who then went to the man and assessed him a fee for the care and upbringing of the child. And we think we're smarter than people used to be.

 

Another sad example was that the death rate for mothers and babies went up after male medical practitioners took over delivering babies.

 

From a book on colonial America

Did you know a wife's wedding ring wasn't even hers unless her husband left it to her in his will?

 

I think a lot of us think that women have always been second class under the law until recent times but actually there have been societies in different times and places where women have fared much better than at others.

 

Another book I enjoyed was "Women's Life and Work in the First 20,000 years."

 

I'd love to hear any book recommendations any of you have or any interesting insights.

 

I don't know if it possible to pin this thread until the end of March (when women's hitory month ends)

[RikerChick 5]

Yes March is women's history month and it is absolutely a time to reflect and celebrate the achievements women have made toward equality. I think though each person can celebrate in their own way. For me I've chosen to donate extra to women's causes. I've been donating to breast cancer research for years and yesterday added ovarian cancer research. In my sig you'll find links to information on both.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

The only problem I see with having a "special month" for individual groups is this. If we are supposed to be one people, equal then doesn't pointing out one group go against that? Does it mean that February is the only month that Black history is to be studied and March is the only month women's history is to be studied?

 

I find it divisive to segregate individual groups. If you are going to have a special month for different groups then what happens when someone wants a "White Supremacist History Month"?

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Uhhhh...... What VBG said

[Nemesis 0]

The only problem I see with having a "special month" for individual groups is this. If we are supposed to be one people, equal then doesn't pointing out one group go against that? Does it mean that February is the only month that Black history is to be studied and March is the only month women's history is to be studied?

 

I find it divisive to segregate individual groups. If you are going to have a special month for different groups then what happens when someone wants a "White Supremacist History Month"?

Exactly VBG, you can't combat discrimination by segregation.

[RikerChick 5]

I think it merely brings awareness to what women and black people have been through. Both groups have suffered oppression. Yes we should think of it year round but most people are too caught up in their everyday lives to do that. I don't see it as being divisive.

[Nemesis 0]

I think it merely brings awareness to what women and black people have been through. Both groups have suffered oppression. Yes we should think of it year round but most people are too caught up in their everyday lives to do that. I don't see it as being divisive.

The Irish have faced oppression, as did the french (in Canada) and so many differant cultures. What about them?

[RikerChick 5]

I think it merely brings awareness to what women and black people have been through. Both groups have suffered oppression. Yes we should think of it year round but most people are too caught up in their everyday lives to do that. I don't see it as being divisive.

The Irish have faced oppression, as did the french (in Canada) and so many differant cultures. What about them?

As far as I know this is an American thing ( I may be wrong). Women and blacks have been the most oppressed in this country. I really can't see why anyone is upset by this topic. However I've said my thoughts and I'm not going to debate it. I'd rather not see this moved to kronos (forgot how it's really spelled). I will continue to observe women's history month in my own ways.

[mj 7]

I don't have any recommendations beyond the recommendation to read biographies, which give a picture of the times, often without being too preachy. The ones I have read that I like the most involve religious figures. I like Corrie ten Boom's The Hiding Place, and Tramp for the Lord. They are not particularly deep, but they are inspiring and motivating.

 

I liked the Delaney sisters' Having Our Say for all the changes they experienced and witnessed in ther century+ of life. Another inspiring testimony.

 

I am interested in the advancement of opportunities for women, but have never really been interested in the women's movement as run by NOW or other feminist organizations. Why have they been silent on the Martha Stewart fiasco?

 

My role models are members of my family from my mother's generation, women who both worked outside the home, and raised families or were single or were childless. We used to get great biographical bits at family reunions, inspiring stories of how both women and men succeeded in overcoming obstacles. Women were not expected to do less than men in my personal family experience.

 

Women's history month is important, though, so that everyone has the opportunity think on the way women's experiences in society have changed, and what impact that has had on the society as a whole.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I don't have any opposition to celebrating women in history, nor celebrating black people in history. But to me it is a matter of political correctness and many people that know me know that I am not one that is "politically correct" minded. If there is a month set aside for 1 or 2 groups then there should be months set aside for all groups. But what if there is more then 12 groups? Who gets left out and who makes the decision on which group is more important then the others?

 

Kind of like "Take your daughter to work" day. Great idea, important function but what about the little boys? When you segregate one group out from the rest there is going to be someone "hurt", someone left out.

 

I believe we should celebrate Martin Luther King on his day. George Washington on his day and Susan B. Anthony on her day. (These are all Americans of course so insert the proper names for your country in place of theirs).

 

Don't mistake my view as opposition to the notion of celebrating black history, womens history or any other form of history though. I read History books as if they are novels, it is my favorite thing to do. The History Channel is what I have on most often when it's not Football season. I just believe that if we are ever to reach the place that people like Martin Luther King and Susan B. Anthony aspired to take us we need to unite and Celebrate our history as a whole, not just individual groups histories.

[SpocksBrain 0]

I think it merely brings awareness to what women and black people have been through. Both groups have suffered oppression. Yes we should think of it year round but most people are too caught up in their everyday lives to do that. I don't see it as being divisive.

The Irish have faced oppression, as did the french (in Canada) and so many differant cultures. What about them?

As far as I know this is an American thing ( I may be wrong). Women and blacks have been the most oppressed in this country. I really can't see why anyone is upset by this topic. However I've said my thoughts and I'm not going to debate it. I'd rather not see this moved to kronos (forgot how it's really spelled). I will continue to observe women's history month in my own ways.

You think this is bad? Go check out some of those middle eastern women...

[RikerChick 5]

You think this is bad? Go check out some of those middle eastern women...

Lord that's a whole other topic. Not to even mention certain tribes in Africa where FGM is still practiced. But again, that's a different thread (and probably one you shouldn't get me started on as I feel quite passionate about it).

 

Don't mistake my view as opposition to the notion of celebrating black history, womens history or any other form of history though.

 

VBG I would never think that. I simply think that these months are important. Women have come a long way but we still have a long way to go. For me I will continue to observe, and teach my son and daughter to observe women's history month until the time when we achieve full equality. To each their own.

 

Though TUH and I don't see eye to eye on feminism I'm glad she brought this up because one way or another it's made people think.

[edmcgon 0]

VBG,

I have to take the ladies side on this one. While I will agree with you when it comes to races, women are not a "typical" minority. In many places, they are actually a majority. And women cut across all racial lines.

 

The oppression of women goes back to the first homo sapiens. In prehistoric times, it may have been a useful survival characteristic to give men the "upper hand". Carrying it over into civilization was unnecessary. Men had the dominant position and we kept it.

 

I know your next question: Why not have a men's history month? Because history is the study of men. Regardless of what race, culture, or country you are studying, women have generally been a historical footnote. Men have made the decisions. Men started and fought all the wars. Men made the peace and signed the treaties. Men designed and built great structures. Men developed and passed along great philosophies. Men created works of art and literature. All this while women were maintaining the backbone of our species.

 

Considering the millenia we gave them no honor, I would say they are overdue.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

VBG,

I have to take the ladies side on this one. While I will agree with you when it comes to races, women are not a "typical" minority. In many places, they are actually a majority. And women cut across all racial lines.

 

The oppression of women goes back to the first homo sapiens. In prehistoric times, it may have been a useful survival characteristic to give men the "upper hand". Carrying it over into civilization was unnecessary. Men had the dominant position and we kept it.

 

I know your next question: Why not have a men's history month? Because history is the study of men. Regardless of what race, culture, or country you are studying, women have generally been a historical footnote. Men have made the decisions. Men started and fought all the wars. Men made the peace and signed the treaties. Men designed and built great structures. Men developed and passed along great philosophies. Men created works of art and literature. All this while women were maintaining the backbone of our species.

 

Considering the millenia we gave them no honor, I would say they are overdue.

So if I understand you, since the people of the past ignored a specific group of people then they should now gain extra recognition and other groups should be neglected?

 

Also, you don't have to take "sides". I'm not on a "side", I only have my personal beliefs. I don't celebrate "____ History Month", I celebrate "History" period. To have "Irish-American History Month" and not "Italian-American History Month" would tend to say that Irish-American's are more important then Italian-American's though.

 

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole. I'm sure if you go back and study Susan B. Anthony you will find that there were men in her life, men in her movement and men that helped and supported her. Same with the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King had white people in his organization and white people aided in the movement. Why should these people be ignored? Celebrate the events, the history. Not the race or sex of the participants.

[RikerChick 5]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

[mj 7]

Edited March 7, 2004 by mjham

[VaBeachGuy 12]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

We won't get there either with all of the societal segregation.

[RikerChick 5]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

We won't get there either with all of the societal segregation.

I don't see recognizing achievements as segregation in any way.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

We won't get there either with all of the societal segregation.

I don't see recognizing achievements as segregation in any way.

Do you also celebrate Mens History Month?

[RikerChick 5]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

We won't get there either with all of the societal segregation.

I don't see recognizing achievements as segregation in any way.

Do you also celebrate Mens History Month?

As ed said, all history is mens history.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

It's a nice idea, but the human race hasn't come that far yet. We're still taking baby steps. When each group has achieved equality we'll be able to look back at human history and see how far we've come, but we're not even close right now.

We won't get there either with all of the societal segregation.

I don't see recognizing achievements as segregation in any way.

Do you also celebrate Mens History Month?

As ed said, all history is mens history.

I disagree. But I will take that to mean you don't celebrate Men's History Month.

[SpocksBrain 0]

Click for Spoiler:

5{blem I see with having a "special month" for individual groups is this. If we are supposed to be one people, equal then doesn't pointing out one group go against that? Does it mean that February is the only month that Black history is to be studied and March is the only month women's history is to be studied?

 

I find it divisive to segregate individual groups. If you are going to have a special month for different groups then what happens when someone wants a "White Supremacist History Month"?

 

Warning: LOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGG. I got carried away. Read the last paragraph if you just can't see your way to read all of this...

 

VBG and others, there is a historical reason why there is a Black history month. It started out as Black History Week, I believe founded in the 1950's by black historian Carter G. Woodson, in part because there was virtually no knowledge in the general society of contributions of African-Americans to the development of our American society, beyond slavery, the Emancipation proclamation, and George Washington Carver and the peanut, and a scant few others. Woodson and others wanted to make sure a more thorough knowledge of the continuum of African-American contributions was part of the entire society's knowledge base, contributions made even while in slavery, and even while in Jim crow segregation, which included educators, inventors, soldiers, others. This continuum of contributions was in sharp contrast to the brief blurbs that appeared in American history textbooks, probably up through the sixties, beginning to change in the seventies, that acted as if blacks did nothing significant to participate in the development of American life.

 

These days historical contributions of African-American are more widely known. I have even see white people on Jeopardy whip out answers to the once obscure black history questions which most likely were not taught to their parent's (or grandparent's if a youth tournament) generation.

 

My 73-year-old mother was taught black history in the segregated public schools she grew up in, but even then that material was not in a textbook. I just went in and asked her about what black history she had been taught. She whipped out fact after fact, listing poets and educators, whose names are now more likely to be included in American history books, and would not have been, had not agitation, in the form of Black History Week, motivated textbook writers to be more inclusive. The things my mother was taught in the late 1930's and 1940's were not taught in the white schools, but they were part of American life and American history.

 

The problem with the average American not being aware of the contributions of African Americans is that then when hate mongers and their ilk say things about blacks having been nothing but a problem to this country, you might be able to conjure up an exception or two, but you do not have a sense of a continuing evolution of service and contribution. You might start to wonder...what HAVE they done?

 

I can think of an example. A racist can conjure up an image with a statistic. Illegitimacy rate in the African American community is over 50%, so blacks are immoral. But I know that when I was a girl, it was 20%, and sociologists were concerned then. I remember the first time I read a report that the illegitimacy rate was over 50% in Washington DC. I was a college student. But someone just citing a statistic for the purpose of demonstrating the immorality of the black race would just cite today's statistics. Going back even further, black families were routinely split up during slavery, with children being sold away from parents, husbands from wives. Black family life then would not look good then statistically. But also during this period, extended families of "aunts and uncles" also developed, giving family support to broken families. Shortly after slavery, and up through the 1950's statistics regarding black family stability were excellent. So something happened to cause the rapid decline of the seventies.

 

There is a reason to care about knowing African American history. Because this issue has been raised, someone is going to look into questions like this and get real understandings of the problem, and not use statistics shallowly to inflame prejudices.

 

Most of the black history I know I have learned outside of school, on my own, because there was virtually no black history taught in my predominantly white school system in the 1960's and early 70's.

 

Now however if black history is being included as part of the fabric of American history, there may indeed be less of a need for a special week, month whatever.

 

I am not talking about Women's history month, because I do not know the issues. And once again I have gone on too long.

 

Still, I make one more comment about my FORMER favorite World War II movie, The Battle of the Bulge. I remember Telly Savalas as that tough tank commander. He should have been played by a Black actor, because one of the main tank units on that road in the Battle of the Bulge was a segregated Black unit. And one of the main engineering units rebuilding those bridges in that vast series of battles was a segregated black unit. I did not know about this until I saw a PBS special highlighting the accomplishments of these units, probably as a part of Black History month years ago. I taped it, and I watch that over and over again, rather than the Battle of the Bulge, which had it told the truth by including a few black faces, instead of only brave white soldiers, would eliminate the need for the story of the black soldiers of that battle later at a special time.

dont you just adore the cut and paste function??

 

RC - yeah and every day is childrens day and every month is white history month and so on and so on. If so-called minority groups feel like they aren't recognised in general history, then wouldn't devoting only one month to it make it seem less important all the other times of the year?

[RikerChick 5]

I disagree. But I will take that to mean you don't celebrate Men's History Month.

I recognize men's achievements. But men have made up most all of history and left women on the sidelines. If you don't agree with that that's your prerogative.

 

If so-called minority groups feel like they aren't recognised in general history, then wouldn't devoting only one month to it make it seem less important all the other times of the year?

 

No, as I said, it simply brings it to peoples attention when they may otherwise not have thought much about it. It starts people thinking which can last the rest of their lives.

 

Having said that, I'm done with this debate.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

OMG, I really didn't expect to start a debate with this thread. I think it is a shame that we can't discuss what we know of women's history because no one designated a men's history month. I have to agree with edmcgon - traditional history is men's history - women are never mentioned. Some of you suggest we should keep it that way in order to be "fair"

 

As for Ethnic heritage:

 

October is Italian American Heritage Month (it's also German American Heritage month which makes sense because of Oktoberfest).

 

If people wanted to we could probably find out how to get a Star Trek Awareness month or at least a day.

 

VBG, you keep saying we should have one history - so how do you propose to accomplish that because if you eliminate all of these months all you're going to have is a history of white generals, explorers and inventors.

 

As far as the Ethnic Heritage awareness months, dude - you'd throw out a chance to eat all that great food, and don't forget the green beer on St. Patrick's day. Sometimes people just like to have fun.

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I recognize men's achievements. But men have made up most all of history and left women on the sidelines. If you don't agree with that that's your prerogative.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Having studied history extensively I may see things with a broader perspective. Not just male/female or black/white.

 

The reason for my views on this is because for almost my whole life I have been taught that Men are bad... white men specifically. In school growing up the attitude was that "my" history (Anglo-American) is evil and has caused all of our societal ills. This is what happens when you segregate into groups and celebrate individual histories.

 

Agree, disagree either way is fine by me. I will continue to celebrate history as a whole.

[RikerChick 5]

If people wanted to we could probably find out how to get a Star Trek Awareness month or at least a day.

 

Star Trek Day Campaign

[Theunicornhunter 2]

The reason for my views on this is because for almost my whole life I have been taught that Men are bad... white men specifically. In school growing up the attitude was that "my" history (Anglo-American) is evil and has caused all of our societal ills. This is what happens when you segregate into groups and celebrate individual histories.

 

I understand what you're saying about the anti white guy sentiment - I don't experience it like you do but I have noticed it. It's a small thing but I notice in commercials they always make the guy doofus and the girl the genius because depicting a woman as a doofus would be "bad".

 

But I don't think taking the opportunity to look at some things that might otherwise never be mentioned is dissing the part that is covered. I like to read about the exploring (this is probably my favorite) and discoveries, inventions and even wars. But I also like reading about the culture and customs of different times.

 

I thought this thread might be a good place to discuss some of those things - little tidbits of history that never get mentioned. And even though you may be responding from a genuine desire not to be vilified that was not my intent. But the result is this thread is finished and we're not going to discuss what we know of women's history and I don't see how that makes us better off.

[edmcgon 0]

VBG,

As I said before, I agree with you about honoring races with a month.

 

This is not about American society, or even Western Civilization. This goes back much further and includes the entire homan species. And in some places, goes on today.

 

Regarding my "taking sides" comment, I said that only because I tend to agree with you on most issues. Frankly, I cannot remember the last time I disagreed with you, although I am sure it has happened.

 

As a society we are already fractured enough, it's time we begin celebrating our history as a whole.

 

My problem with this is that when you study history as a whole, you are overwhelmingly studying men. Men have been the "movers and the shakers" throughout history. Do you realize that by concentrating historical study on men we are literally ignoring half of our history?

[SpocksBrain 0]

My problem with this is that when you study history as a whole, you are overwhelmingly studying men. Men have been the "movers and the shakers" throughout history. Do you realize that by concentrating historical study on men we are literally ignoring half of our history?

I am not sure where you are coming from here, it seemed like you contradicted your self by saying the first: "men are the movers and shakers" then saying that concentrating on men would involve "ignoring half our history"...

 

I do agree with you though, men have been the movers and shakers, not because the world has been socialized that way, but because men and women have been designed deferantly, they have differant priorities and mindsets.

[mj 7]

dont you just adore the cut and paste function?? <_<

 

RC - yeah and every day is childrens day and every month is white history month and so on and so on. If so-called minority groups feel like they aren't recognised in general history, then wouldn't devoting only one month to it make it seem less important all the other times of the year?

Yes I adore the cut and paste function..no way was I going to quote that long quote of mine!

 

No, it would motivate history textbook writers to begin to include demonstrated historical facts

about minority contributions in American History textbooks, which is exactly what happened only after those facts were regularly presented in special weeks or months.

 

As I said, if these facts had never been omitted, there would not have been a need to do anything extra. I don't think it even occurs to many white people that anyone but white Americans were over there fighting in Europe during World War II, but what harm is there in telling the truth? Segregated black troops were also over there fighting for their country!

 

And I do not regret knowing the history I know. I was taught about many many many white heroes, who I think of as my own American heroes especially the astronauts of the Mercury and Gemini and Apollo era...all white. I have scrapbooks full of Apollo to this day! And I don't buy into the rhetoric against white males. But the white friends I went to school with know very little of the contributions of black people, and without the special days, that would still be the case.