Lady Britannia

Enterprise's original run was on the UPN Network. UPN wasn't available to more than half of the audience that would have watched it had it been on one of the major networks (Here in the States, that would be NBC, CBS, ABC and FOX). When I got DirecTV, I wasn't able to get a UPN Channel on my satellite, thus, I missed out on at least three seasons. I know of many others from other boards that voiced same or similar concerns. We called, wrote and begged DirecTV to add a UPN Station to our regular channel line-up, to which they refused. So, when you say that it tanked because of poor ratings, it did. Because we weren't able to see it. Until now.

Even excluding those who didn't get to see it, it doesn't explain the enormous loss of confirmed viewers who actually did see it.

"Takara Soong"

Automated response from UPN - no response from CBS but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

I would expect a similar response from CBS. Sooner or later, ENT fans are going to have to let go and realise that ENT is not the be all and end all for this franchise.

When I said that it would have had a better chance on a main network or sci-fi network it was because the viewership numbers would have been more obvious (for lack of a better word) and the targeted demographics not so limited.

ENT is on a sci-fi network every Monday and still struggles. Being on a main network doesn't necessarily mean it would have pulled a greater number of viewers either. It just means the criteria needed in terms of numbers would have been even tougher to meet.

I don't want to get into an argument over ratings but it is a fact that half of the US was unable to view Enterprise in its first run and it is a fact that a number of affiliates moved Enterprise or pre-empted it for local sports which wouldn't have happened on a main or specialty network.

Which to me suggests that it was a weak show. One cannot blame a local broadcaster for showing a replacement program if they feel they will get a higher rating. When the campaign came along to "save the show" it attracted paltry support. It's been broadcast on Sci-Fi now and it still gets low ratings. Add all these pieces together and I think it demonstrates that ENT fans simply think the show was more popular than it actually was in reality.

With the ratings that Enterprise did receive, if it was on the Sci-Fi Channel it would have been considered a success.

It wasn't on Sci-Fi so it's an irrelevant point. It's on Sci-Fi at the moment but doesn't get anything near the ratings it drew on UPN.

We can never know what its ratings would have been on a main network because we can't say that it would have been the same as on UPN and we can't extrapolate the numbers to say what the viewership might have been on a network.

That's why it's not worth speculating on what could have been.

However, no matter what the ratings, a protest for a program on a main network would have more of a chance because they have different sets of demographics that they are targeting

The protests needed large numbers of people. It didn't matter what colour, age, sex or social class they belonged to. The protests failed because the support was miniscule.

"Gummy"

Wow.

Can you be any more negative?

I have no idea, since I don't know what you personally consider to be "negative".

"The Unicorn Hunter"

Going out of their way to kill it might be strong but it didn't fit the demographic for which they were seeking. It is no secret in the US that there are targeted demographics - ie the market that advertisers want to reach. So even if a show came in first in its timeslot - if it was popular with the 50+ crowd it could get pulled pretty quick. (that happened to Don Johnson a season or so ago - the show was on about two eps and they realized it was popular with 50 something women and dropped it. ah to be a male in the 18-49 age range - people actually think you're important. One reason I got rid of cable is I was tired of hearing how unimportant I was - heck, if nobody wants me to watch their show I'll be glad to oblige them)

Demographics matter of course, but ENT already began to show a ratings slide from very early on in its run. If the show had been been consistently drawing a good rating then the demographics wouldn't have mattered since I doubt strongly that a show pulling in good ratings would have been cancelled simply because the right kind of people (the target audience) weren't watching the show, especially with Star Trek which tends to have quite a diverse audience and fanbase.

"Feddie"

Say what you want. "I" was there for Star Trek as a franchise first. And ENT as a series second.

The franchise wasn't under threat so it was pointless to be protesting for Star Trek as a whole because no one ever said that Star Trek was being cancelled forever, just ENT, and if you wanted to set yourself apart from the rest of the pack, then sadly you chose the wrong group to protest with.

When I started this thread I didn't know I was going to end up having to defend my march on Paramount, and protesting the cancellation. I knew it was a futile effort... but I loved it all that much. Just doing my part.

Everything has to be defended. Join "Trek United" and criticism had to follow, merely as a consequence of their words and actions.

"Takaka Soong"

I sent emails and faxes and signed petitions too.

E-mails tend to only bring automated responses. Polite and generic answers from a machine. Petitions are pointless too since they can be signed multiple times by those resourceful enough.

If Enterprise had been on a main network or a sci-fi specialty network and not on the mini-network that it was, the protests may have had a better chance of working.

Highly unlikely. The protests may have had a better chance of working only if they attracted a significant amount of support. They couldn't even attract the remaining viewers that ENT was left with at the end. Out of around three million viewers "Trek United" managed only around 4000 members, and most of them never made a single post on their website and they could only raise 140K for their campaign.

Enterprise didn't bring in the demographics wanted - end of story. Before they shifted it to Friday nights (which is the 2nd lowest television viewing night in the US), Enterprise was one of its top rated series.

WWE Smackdown prospers in the Friday night deathslot. Demographics or not, ENT's ratings were sliding drastically.

They went out of their way to kill it because it didn't fit their vision of their network.

More conspiracy theories. This is the kind of argument that so-harmed "Trek United".

A better war analogy would have been for a group of Romulan fanatics (Al-Qaeda) to attack Earth (the United States) with a powerful weapon (a few Boeings) in the hopes of bringing Starfleet (U.S. Armed Forces) into a war with the Romulan Star Empire (various Muslim nations) with the hope of unifying the Romulans (Muslims) against Starfleet (the United States).

We weren't all there just marching for Enterprise itself, but the whole franchise. I guess it wasn't enough.

The march was for Enterprise alone. Initially it was "Save Enterprise" but only became "Trek United" when Brazeal realised that Enterprise fans were not substantial enough in numbers to make any difference. That group then shifted the goalposts and Brazeal would parrot the line that "Star Trek Was Dead" which was simply an attempt to create a hysteria among fans. A false situation where they had to support "Trek United" or Star Trek would never come back. But it simply wasn't true. Despite all the fears of Star Trek "dying" and the "Star Trek RIP" overreaction seen on numerous message boards, none of it was justified and the 2008 movie was announced, in addition to the online game coming also in 2008, and a possible online animated show.

Berman and Braga harmed "Star Trek Enterprise" no doubt. Personally I didn't see any evidence of Coto bringing it back up again. He merely resorted to increasing levels of fanboyishness, particularly with the Vulcan Reformation storyline (which continued the poor portrayal of the Vulcans on the show during Berman and Braga's time in charge) and the worst storyline in the series, the ludicrous "Klingon Ridges meets Arik Soong meets The Augments meets Khan meets the Creation of Data" arc which seemed to be the product of Coto trying to link as many elements of Star Trek together in a clumsy storyline. Even taking the show as a stand-alone series, it was severely lacking in terms of story and character quality. A shame, because the concept was promising, but it was wasted.

When you do post, you certainly do it with a vengance, eh?

Pretty obvious that you're not a fan of Enterprise.

I am not a fan of "Star Trek Enterprise" that's quite correct, but my posts are simply to the point.

Coto took Star Trek to depths it had never sunk to before and thankfully the show ended before he could cause any further damage.

Recently there was a comment made by a CBS Executive concerning the cancelation of the program "Jericho." Petitions, letters and 'nuts' sent to CBS/Viacom actually made the network reverse their decision and renew Jerhicho for 8 more episodes with a possible option to renew for a whole season. The executive actually used the words, "We've never seen anything like this!"

 

Excuse me!!! ??? !!!

 

Don't sit up their in their high and mighty chairs at the executive levels and say that Star Trek fans didn't try hard enough! Don't sit there and tell me they didn't know we protested when Star Trek: Enterprise was canceled. Don't tell me they didn't know that rallies were held world wide to protest (I spent 12 hours that day marcing at Paramout's main gates) ... that we didn't send letters, emails, phone calls, and faxes! Did they not get them? They've never seen anything like that? How the devil can they say that? Were there more Jericho fans than Star Trek fans? I doubt that!

 

I've watched Jericho from its beginnings too, and was sorry when it was canceled. I made no effort to join in any of the petitions to protest or ask for a renewal. Considering the results of how Star Trek - as an entire franchise - was treated, I figured there was no hope. But... then when I read, "we've never seen anything like this!" just made me boil.

The "world wide" rallies were vastly overexaggerated. There were only a relatively small number of people protesting outside the Paramount studios. The group responsible for the "Save Enterprise" campaign, "Trek United" led by Tim Brazeal, were a very small group who unfortunately believed they were the voice of the fanbase and spoke for the majority, when in fact they were nothing of the sort. Mass e-mails, faxes, letters and phonecalls simply become tiresome after a short while and it suggests to the studio that what they dealing with is just a small number of fanatics who do not actually represent the majority of the fanbase. As time went by, the tactics of Trek United became increasingly quixotic and fanatical such as the "funding season five" campaign which took place even after Paramount made it very clear in a letter to Mr Brazeal that no money from the fans would be accepted to fund further Enterprise seasons and Star Trek's official website made it clear that people donating money would do so at their own risk to groups that had no connection to the official franchise. Whereas the Jericho fans on the other hand took a humourous light-hearted approach and succeeded in their campaign.

It made me mad too. As much as I liked Jericho, I couldn't believe that its fans could bring Jericho back, but the fans of Enterprise couldn't bring it back. Maybe the execs at CBS are pushovers. They've never seen anything like that? Maybe not at CBS, but they sure have at Paramount!

 

Part of the problem (or maybe all of the problem) with bringing back Enterprise is that one the guys high up at Paramount (I can't think of his name) apparently hates scifi and Star Trek. I'm surprised that they're doing another Star Trek movie!

 

I'm happy for all the fans of Jericho, but if CBS has "never seen anything like it", they must not have been aound very long.

If you are referring to Les Moonves in the bold section I highlighted, then I'm afraid you too have bought into the false arguments raised to explain the cancellation of Star Trek: Enterprise. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that a hatred of Star Trek and science-fiction was the reason why the "Save Enterprise" campaign failed so dismally. The reason stated by Paramount was low ratings and there no cause to doubt that. The demonisation of Les Moonves by Trek United, in posts, violent jokes, and even in an animation made on their behalf was one of the absurd tactics that group resorted to when it became obvious that they had failed. Today, the "Save Enterprise" campaign consists of around five people on Trek United's forums. Completely and utterly discredited.

I think Indian cinema could do without ear-biting, barely coherant, convicted rapists.

Have you seen the purported film a tourist took at Loch Ness? While it isn't clear what is there - there does appear to be something there. Looked sort of like a dolphin to me.

 

So what do you think?

Another case of Loch Ness-related wishful thinking

I wonder if it will come with a simulated version of "NASA arrogance?"

"No, that O-ring won't fail!!!"

or

"No, we don't need to worry about potential foam strikes on the orbiter!"

Write a politely worded letter to CBS expressing your disappointment that the show has been cancelled and ask about the possibility of it being brought back and/or the production transferred to another company.

If they reply "no" to both questions, accept it and watch something else instead.

"Darndest?"

Picard's origin should have been British, not French

"But today it saved my life."

The tree failed to get you.

But give it some time, and the cigarettes surely will.

It really doesn't matter IMO. As long as you live a happy life and don't worry about who thinks you are "old" or what "old" even means, you'll feel better about it. If you are comfortable with yourself then that is what is important.

The World According To Rick:

Excerpt:

"All the stuff I wrote was great. I can't understand how those damn Star Trek fans couldn't appreciate my brilliance!"

Put a little light in the puck so it shines brightly as it slides across the ice.

Alien abduction???...

More likely they were careless and the ship was improperly secured and drifted away.

As for the Mary Celeste, I am reasonably convinced that the crew believed the alcohol cargo was about to explode and they got into the lifeboat, the rope snapped and the lifeboat drifted away from the ship and the crew eventually died and were lost at sea.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into an anti-south thread. As you can see in location under my avatar, I have lived in Georgia all my life and was born here. I'm not a racist so lets not go that route about how everyone in Georgia is a racist just because of that old man in the article

Rest assured, I'm not anti-Southern United States.

I am anti-ignorance, wherever it may be located on this planet.

Truth can indeed be disturbing, but a disturbing truth is better than a comforting lie, IMO.

When the sky comes crashing down, who lifts your frown.

When there's a storm, whose keeping you warm?

Lightning strikes, thunder claps, lights a fire, what mishaps? are you calling me a liar?

The Earth shakes, a fight's born, link's worn, feeling torn, can't go through it again, the ground breaks, I can't take this, restless, need to get away, to safety, I'll say you made me, looking on the horizon, someone I had my eyes on.

When the land crumbles from beneath you, let go of her hand, and swim to an island you thought would save you, sinks you.

 

Criticism welcome.

That's nice work.

In uncertain times, I find "truth" to be the most comforting thing. To know "why" something happened and what can be learned from it brings a soothing element with it. I like things to make sense.

But it also was an affirmation of what gun advocates say is a blanket U.S. constitutional right, under the Second Amendment, for citizens to keep and bear arms. Gun opponents challenge that right and say the language in the Constitution is open to interpretation.

I agree. Gun ownership advocates only tend to read the second part of the Second Amendment, oddly ignoring the part about a well-regulated militia.

The Kennesaw law has endured as the town's population has swelled to about 30,000 from 5,000 in 1982.

 

"When the law was passed in 1982 there was a substantial drop in crime ... and we have maintained a really low crime rate since then," said police Lt. Craig Graydon. "We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in the metro area.

Doesn't necessarily mean it's down to the gun law. The increase in population may have reduced the crime rate in proportion to the population. If you have a town of 5000 where say for example 1000 people commit crimes, it would be far more noticable than a town of 30,000 where 1000 people commit crimes.

"People in Europe feel they need to be protected by the government. People in the U.S. feel they need to be protected from the government," said Jones, the owner of a .357-caliber Magnum.

Sounds like paranoia to me. Chances are, if the United States government wanted to harm its citizens, then Joe Yank with his pistol wouldn't stand a chance. You've got a Magnum, they've got an F-16 fighter jet. It's a no-contest. The U.S. government has Apache attack helicopters. Does that mean that the citizens should be allowed to buy surface-to-air missile launchers.....just in case they are attacked by Apache helicopters? Crazy stuff.

Dent "Wildman" Myers, 76, styles himself as a keeper of the flame when it comes to Kennesaw's gun ordinance. His downtown shop contains a cornucopia of artifacts, including old uniforms and dozens of flags of the Confederacy that fought the Union in part in defense of slavery in the Civil War. At the back is a Ku Klux Klan outfit with a noose and a hood.

The Confederacy and the KKK

What a history to be proud of.

There also are posters praising defenders of the white race, White Power CDs and a sign that reads: "No Dogs Allowed, No Negroes, No Mexicans." Someone had crossed out the first part of the sign and added "Dogs Allowed."

Such enlightenment. These are just the type of people I would trust with firearms.

Myers said he wanted to protect the values that made the town and the South distinct from other parts of the United States.

I would certainly hope the rest of the United States is distinct from that kind of bigotry, for the sake of the rest of the United States.

Since the Virginia Tech shootings, some conservative U.S. talk radio hosts have rejected attempts to link the massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer.

Then again, if the killer had been prevented from buying guns, the massacre may not have happened.

Kennesaw

To paraphrase the great Professor Richard Dawkins, I would advise anyone living in this town, to leave and move to a proper, more civilised town.