Dark Reality

I've had it for a couple days now.

If you like DS9, you'll love seeing DS9 and the Defiant rendered in the Unreal Engine - it's real nice. The station is rather squared off in places, but it's well done. While running around on the Promenade, you can look out at the pylons and the space beyond.

However, I find the game aggravating. It's really involved to get things done, kind of like a puzzle game. Go get an isolinear chip. Take it to a computer to program it. Switch it with a defective one. (Worf's first mission.) Problem is, you don't just automatically do it. While this nearly unkillable enemy (he has a personal shield) is trying to kill you (and can kill you in 2 hits) you have to open your inventory, select the chip, use it on the computer - same thing with the switch-out - but Worf automatically picks up the chip when you find it. Also, it is hard to find one's way around the Defiant (Worf's first mission) and a Bajoran temple (Kira's first mission).

I felt like they could have done a lot better.

I agree; the idea of DS9 being a dream was best left in the arc starting with "Far Beyond the Stars". I also agree that DS9 was too tied into the series and movies to be just a dream. And that it would have been an insult to Gene.

The Dominion winning the war and Voyager turning the tide at the end might have been cool, but it would have hurt DS9 to end it on such a downer. And it would have been unreasonable to have Voyager save the AQ.

I was not bothered by Sisko becoming a Prophet or whatever happened there. It was kind of confusing, but it -did- tie up the series quite nicely. I loved when Sisko really became passionate about Bajor. The Prophets really transformed him, and while I'm not religious, the story does have a certain appeal for me.

Back to topic, I think the dream ending is a way out - an apology, even. It says that everything didn't have to make sense and that nothing the characters did or felt mattered at all.

Well yes, the war could have been avoided, and I just thought of this. In the episode "The Assignment", a pah-wraith possesses Keiko O'Brien and, by threatening her and Molly, tries to force Miles to collapse the wormhole. Starfleet wouldn't have approved, and of course the Bajorans would have been pretty mad, but it would have avoided a war with the Dominion.

It would be MUCH longer than 200 years - the Dominion wouldn't set a direct course for Earth if the Wormhole were collapsed. They would, rather, expand outward. They couldn't send a massive fleet to Earth because Jem'hadar soldiers only live 15-20 years, there would be no way. And then to maintain order between the Founders in the GQ and the Dominion installations in the AQ - it just wouldn't work. No, I think the Wormhole is really the Founders' key to the AQ.

(I think the Bajorans should have suggested collapsing the Wormhole - if their Prophets really are so immortal and all-powerful, collapsing or at least permanently sealing the Wormhole shouldn't cut them off - the Prophets would somehow find a way to look over Bajor.)

I am wondering, which episodes of The Next Generation directly relate to the events in Deep Space Nine?

I like TNG, but I've sort of given up on watching it as I've found it to be more episodic, rather than having events really follow through to future episodes. Don't get me wrong, I still love it, but it's easier for me to watch Deep Space Nine or Voyager.

I have noticed that there are some episodes of TNG which directly contribute to the story of Deep Space Nine, and I'd like a list of them, if someone here is so familiar with both TNG and DS9.

For example, I vaguely remember Ensign Ro Laren on TNG, and that she was Bajoran, and joined the Maquis. And on another forum, someone made a reference to Picard being tortured by the Cardassians - I completely missed that. Not necessarily anything that uses the Bajoran or Cardassian races, but episodes, the events of which directly relate to DS9. The Cardassian Occupation of Bajor, Bajor's spirituality, the Maquis, things of this nature. After we finish watching DS9 it would be nice to see some of these episodes.

If only they'd pumped this in through environmental controls systems on starships and in key Federation/Starfleet facilities and key allied facilities, the Changeling problem would have been NIL. Furthermore they could have launched a rocket FULL of the stuff to the Founders Homeworld - no more Dominion. What is this substance of which I speak?

I saw that on the store shelves and had to post it here. Wanna see it for yourselves? Look for it near the Febreze.

Fellow Niners, show this topic some love (reply) or I'll repost it in the DS9 forum - this is too cute to be forgotten in a forum not paid much attention by the Trekkie community.

Has anyone played Star Trek: Deep Space Nine: The Fallen?

Star Trek games are usually garbage IMHO, but I heard this game was based on the Unreal engine, so I had to bite. The Unreal engine is a lot better than the Quake engine which powered Voyager:Elite Force, and what I played of Elite Force wasn't bad - just had the sloppiness I've come to expect from a Quake-based game. Unreal Tournament had a good solid engine, which was used to make perhaps the best first-person shooter to date, 2000's Deus Ex. The same engine... in a DS9 game? I'm sold.

Apparently you play Sisko, Worf, and Kira alternately, and the three must work together and with the rest of the crew. Some are voiced by their real actors, but some, like Sisko, are not. I have heard the game takes place around season 6 of DS9 and involves the pah-wraiths.

I can't wait... please don't spoil it for me if you've played it, but if you have, what do you think? It should be here any day now.

Worf has my vote as well. I loved Jadzia [as a character] and think Worf's a good mate for her - none better, though a Jadzia - Bashir pairing could have been interesting as well.

Does anyone recall that O'Brien wasn't a character in the old TNG series? I thought they just kept using Colm Meaney as a recurring extra - the credits often referred to him as Crewman or were similarly vague. He didn't develop a solid character until later - their early handling of Colm Meaney's role(s) was/were very strange.

Aren't the Scottish and Irish traditional rivals? If Scotty is Scottish as I assume, and we know that O'Brien is Irish, I wonder if that would get between them at all, even considering Earth's supposedly enlightened views on race. Just a thought. On an engineering level however they would make a heck of a team.

On another board, someone made a bizarre claim about O'Brien. They first said that he may or may not have attended Starfleet Academy. I think that we are all in agreement that he has not, but in a couple episodes he does hint to his Academy days. But then the message went on to imply that he may or may not be Molly's father. Is that in question? It sounds stupid but I can't get it outta my mind.

Been wantin to make this thread for a while. I like Triple H's theme on WWE:RAW, and I picked up a copy of Wreckless Intent, and really listened to his song, "King of Kings" by Motorhead. It makes me think of the Klingons; the lyrics are really something I can see Klingons singing/chanting over Bloodwine. Consider:

Behold the King -

The King of Kings

On your knees, dog!

All hail...

Bow down to the

Bow down to the King

Bow down to the

Bow down to the King

The King grinned red

As he walked from the blaze

Where the traitor lost both his name and his face

Through the halls and the corridors

Stinging in blood

He tasted his grin and it tasted good

The King took his head

Left him broken and dead

Bow down to the

Bow down to the King

Bow down to the

Bow down to the King

Bow down to the

Bow down to the King

The King left none living

None able to tell

The King took their heads

And he sent them to Hell

Their screams echoed loud

In the place of their death

Ripped open they died

With their final breath

They hailed the King

The King of Kings

Bow down to the...

Especially the verses. Does that not make you think of Kahless? Especially the last one.

And then there's my favourite band, the classical-opera-metal hybrid act from Finland: Nightwish. Many of their songs are charged with the passion common among Klingon warriors, and the lyrics fit - "The Kinslayer", "End of All Hope", and "Slaying the Dreamer" to name a few.

When I think of music that reminds me of Star Trek, it's usually Klingons, not Trek as a whole, I'm thinking of. I listen to a lot of metal. So what, from your music collection, can you fit with Star Trek, and what race/character/aspect of it and why?

I'm on the fence - I will have to think about this.

I definetely prefer the upgraded versions - they look much cleaner. But then I would also love to own the originals.

I think it'll come down to price. Why should I pay again for the restored edition I already have? I'd want the original trilogy, but just that, and for no more than $35 for the three of them. Otherwise - I have all six Star Wars movies on DVD and I'm happy about that.

For those of you complaining about Lucas raking in the money, well, this month's Popular Science claims that next year, Lucas will release Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace in IMAX and/or other 3D theatres, and the other five will follow. They're working really hard to add that third dimension, to really suck the audience into the movie - or to sucker them out of their money, you decide.

Well, it WAS you who got "Pale Moonlight" in my head as a great episode to look forward to, but had you - or anyone else - not, I would have still discovered it, perhaps loved it even more as there had been no hype surrounding it. I generally hold hype against something - if only a little - but "Pale Moonlight" surpasses any hype. I mean, solid acting from everyone, Sisko and Garak in particular, through the whole thing. I wonder if "Pale Moonlight" is Avery Brooks' best acting - if so, he should be proud of it.

Had to mention Enterprise... I'm kicking myself for not having downloaded that when I had broadband, before I moved. As I've said before, I couldn't get into the first episode - but I do want to watch it all the way through one day. It's Star Trek - how bad can it be? And the alternate universe episodes, the episode about First Contact, and the temporal cold war are all topics that have me curious.

I just watched DS9 6x19 "In the Pale Moonlight" for the third time today - the first time when I watched DS9 in sequence, the second time a month or two ago, and tonight again, though my fiancée and I are about a season away from seeing it in sequence. I couldn't help myself, though - it's a great episode.

From the beginning to the end, this episode shines. Not a dull moment at all, and the ending is STILL satisfying to watch. I want to stand up and cheer so many times in that episode.

This is really the defining point, not only in the Dominion War, but in Sisko's character, mostly what sets him apart as a Captain compared with Picard and Janeway. And I don't think it's something Kirk would have done, either. (I don't know Archer.)

Some say "Pale Moonlight" is the best Deep Space Nine episode. Some take that a step farther, say it's the best Star Trek episode bar none. At first I was willing to disagree, at least with the second statement. I preferred TNG's "The Inner Light" and Voyager's "Blink of an Eye" until I saw "Pale Moonlight" - at that point it was easy to say I had a favourite from the three Trek series that mattered to me. And then from DS9 I also liked "Duet" and "Children of Time". But after going all the way through DS9, there was only one episode I wanted to watch out of turn (though Duet's in Season 1, so I caught it again on the second run-through, and for that matter I'm about 5-6 episodes away from "Children of Time").

The rest of this post requires the spoiler feature, so if you haven't seen this great episode, I recommend that you do before proceeding.

Well, I think of DS9 as dark, but I like it that way. After watching a season or so of DS9, I try to watch an episode of TNG and it's harder to get into. But I do agree with your explanation as well.

It's been a while since I've updated my "last episode" counter, or we've been going through the episodes pretty fast. Last night we only watched three, but we watched six Sunday night, which is impressive considering we watched the ECW Pay-per-view Sunday night with friends, then stayed an hour or two afterwards - and THEN came home and watched six episodes of DS9. I was hoping we would watch six last night and then six tonight, so we'd reach "Children of Time", but that's not going to happen. At least she got to see "For the Uniform"; she was really hoping to see Eddington get his after "For the Cause". So we're looking forward to "Children of Time" and "Blaze of Glory", not to mention "In the Pale Moonlight" but we have a long way to go until we get there.

I think it's safer to say she's a Niner than not. I told her we were talking about her here, that she should come on here (I think she has an account anyway) and say for herself, but then she rolled her eyes and asked if I really had to ask - on the way back to the couch to watch another episode of DS9.

I didn't mean to be so harsh on Season 7 - a lot of good stuff there. I don't really have a favourite - I just prefer the last four seasons over the first three. It just doesn't seem right without Worf on the second viewing. And then it didn't seem right until they got the new uniforms a third of the way through Season 5. I tend to pick favourite episodes - "In the Pale Moonlight", "Children of Time", "The Visitor", and "Duet". Pretty sure none of those are from the same season as any other. Where in the first post you counted your favourites and made a decision based on that - I haven't watched DS9 quite enough to rate the episodes like that. I'm still at the "it's all good" stage. I also like to look at Sisko's arc, which goes from the first to the last episode, where he goes from being uncomfortable with the Emissary position to really following the Prophets - and I'm not even religious myself.

Hard to say, really. I wish I were a Betazoid. I know she likes watching it with me, that peripheral interest that comes from knowing I like it so much. Like how I got into WWE for her. But also like how I took my own interest and formed my own opinions about WWE, I think she's getting into DS9. I wouldn't say she's a Niner, though. I know I wasn't until after Season 5 or 6, when the Dominion War was really on in full. But then, I was a Voyager fan. All she really has is a few scattered episodes of TNG and the movies.

What's a Niner, really? Just someone who likes DS9? Someone who prefers DS9 to the other Trek series? Or someone who prefers DS9 to all other TV shows. I fall under all three, the last one just barely. She falls under the first one, possibly the second one, though that can't be determined until we get through Voyager and she has something to compare and contrast to. Me, I think DS9 is the best Trek has done and is one of the best TV shows, ever. I identify more with the Voyager crew, but the DS9 episodes individually and the series as a whole is simply amazing. The Dominion War, the alternate universe, Sisko's path with the Prophets, Jake finding his place in the world, Kira coming to terms with the Cardassians (to an extent), Quark and Odo, the whole political drama on Bajor, and so much more. I could not ask for a better television series. I'm pretty passionate about DS9 - though probably not as much as you (VBG). I can't say Jen's at that stage or ever will be, but she seems to enjoy it.

We average three episodes a night on the three nights a week I'm off. The next three are all top episodes, too! Shattered Mirror, The Muse, and For The Cause. The scattered trilogy For The Cause starts is one of the better arcs in the series. But we've gotten to the good part - once Worf joins the cast, it gets moving a lot faster. And I liked when the Klingons got back on Starfleet's side - the Klingon episodes at least vastly improved.

She got the same major spoiler I got and shouldn't have. A week or so ago she asked me who Ezri Dax was. I couldn't help it, I had to leak that something happens to Jadzia where the Dax symbiont has to be given to a new host. I told her that Terry Farrel wanted out (which is what I heard) and they wrote her out of the show, that it was done well, and that I wouldn't say when it was, but I think my previous statement (to her) that Season 7 isn't quite as good as the previous two may have been a hint. I don't think a DS9 viewer should learn that Jadzia leaves the show early, well, until it happens. But there are a few good surprises ahead. For The Uniform, In The Pale Moonlight, Far Beyond The Stars, and Take Me Out To The Holosuite, to name a few.

Sorry, I've been away. Just in general, forums haven't been holding my interest. But we've just passed the halfway mark, and both of us want to see this through to the end. I think I can have us to season 6 by the wedding, at least at the pace we've been going. We flew through Season 3 and the first third of Season 4 and we haven't skipped any episodes.

I also agree that TNG should have been more represented - and it could have done with another Voyager episode as well. I cannot well remember the episode named, and would have chosen "Blink of an Eye" instead.

And instead of "The Visitor" I would have went with "Duet" for second-best DS9 episode.

Overall I disagree with the list, but I'm pretty weak with TOS and ENT. Still, I've seen "City on the Edge of Forever". It was one of two episodes my father kept on videotape. I don't recall the other, but I have seen "City". Good ep, but "Mirror, Mirror" was better - at least I thought so.

When I lived in California, I had a friend who liked TNG. The finale was more important to him than the Super Bowl that year, and he was a bigger football fan than Trekkie. My father was also really big into TNG, and TOS as well. I didn't really watch TNG until reruns. I tried to get into DS9 but didn't like it at the time, but I did like Voyager. No one else seemed to.

Now I'm getting my fiancée into DS9, and she likes it so far, but I get the impression she wouldn't be without me - but she does enjoy watching it with me, and pays attention, has questions about it. We think our kids will be fans as well. But around here, I don't know anyone that likes Trek at all.

I'd never heard a Star Trek joke before today, then I find a few of them. I left some out which were just plain lousy, but these are at least amusing if not downright funny.

Q: Why do people say Captain Kirk has 3 ears?

A: He has a left ear, a right ear, and a final frontier.

Q: What did Captain Picard say when Data asked him which gaming handheld he preferred?

A: N-gage.

Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?

Mr. Spock: Obviously, it was the logical thing to do.

Q: What did Sulu do when a crewman complained that there was a small hole in the wall of his sonic shower?

A: He promised to look into it.

Q: What did the Betazoid say to the Hologram?

A: You're projecting.

Seven and Chakotay were dating.

Chakotay was patiently waiting

For signs of romance;

Soft words, a slow dance --

What he got was an efficiency rating!

Q: Why does Captain Janeway always burn her replicated dinners?

A: Because food can only take so much auxillary power from a deflector array.

Q: Why did Worf change his hair colour?

A: Because it was a good day to dye.

Q: Why did Captain Picard shave his head?

A: To baldly go where no man has gone before.

Share any more you have...

007's character is Mr Q? I thought it was just plain Q, like the Star Trek character. But then, I am more familiar with the newer 007 films - I've seen all of the Pierce Brosnan films, and "Man With the Golden Gun". Maybe one other. But I've seen Goldeneye more than any of them.

It's unlikely 007's Q is a Star Trek Q, but it is possible Trek's Q is based, in some small part, on the wonders 007's Q put out, these seemingly impossible spy toys.

That is a tough one. Without putting too much thought into it, I'd say Voyager: Blink of an Eye. Top episode, there.

But then, with more thought I'd probably pick a really good Deep Space Nine episode, or go classic and pick a favourite TNG episode.

So, there's something scary about effectively ending hunger? And if people could simply use a transporter/replicator to provide everything they need, why would they need jobs (so those companies would be unnecessary)? Of course, people still have jobs in Star Trek which I assume is part of whole working to better ourselves Picard was talking about in Star Trek First Contact.

Bill Gates and George W. Bush would have them. The richest 1% of the population will have them - and they ain't hungry by any means. Is that a guarantee those who are hungry will get to eat? Probably more so with Gates than Bush, considering his charity work, but still, the first replicators are going to be huge, not portable. Hunger might end in the Redmond, WA area, best case scenario. What about hunger in other places in America - what about hunger in third-world countries?

Of course, I'm only speaking hypothetically. I'm by no means taking this any more seriously than it deserves.

I know a lot of people see Star Trek and other sci-fi shows and fantasize about having some of the technology. Me, I'd love to have a holodeck or holosuite. I'd be like Barclay, living in one. Heck yeah.

But transporters? Big mistake, and here's why. A transporter supposedly scans your body, converts it into a data stream, disintegrates you, sends the signal to the desitnation, and then rematerializes you.

Wait a minute - it kills you? That's right, you're destroyed and rebuilt. But they have it down to a science, so all your memories and whatnot are retained.

But they never answer the real questions about transporter technology, they just dance around them. Like Barclay's transporter phobia, and Tom Riker. But let's look at some possibilities transporters would bring to our everyday lives.

1. Before your child leaves for work, you copy them into the transporter buffer, but don't disintegrate them. You do this every day, wiping the previous backup and replacing it with the new one.

2. On their way home from school, your child is kidnapped. You don't pay a ransom, you don't call the cops. You just go to your trusty transporter and rematerialize. The child loses their school lessons for a day, but the school understands and sends homework home with a neighbor.

3. The real kid is murdered, among other things - but not before the kidnapper records them in a transporter buffer, and then burns the contents of the buffer on whatever storage media is available at the time, and this media is mass reproduced and sold on the black market. To be able to use a transporter to materialize a child who is terrified and vulnerable.

4. Perverts develop technology to scan kids without taking them, to rematerialize a copy of them in the privacy of their own home (dungeon?) without the parents ever aware. Crimes against children seem to drop because kids aren't getting kidnapped - they're just getting copied.

And that's just one scenario. There are others, but they might not get your attention quite as effectively. For example, transporters and replicators share a lot of the same components. What if I were to download a $20 bill into my transporter buffer and rematerialize 100 copies? They'd all have the same serial, but who checks serials? Besides, I could spend them all at different places.

OK, so that's traceable. What if I buy a loaf of bread, a bunch of vegetables, some pasta, and some meat, and load them into the transporter buffer? Replicate that - as that's basically what I'd be doing - and have spaghetti every night. Only if everyone did that, the companies that produced that food to begin with would go out of business.

I could go on, but I will not; I've made my point. Do I have a good one, or am I missing something? Because I don't mind these technologies in sci-fi, but hearing people talk about actually developing them - that kinda scares me.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. It's the one with DS9, the Runabout, and the Wormhole. Just changed it to that a couple days ago, though I've had it up there before.

I have a fairly modest collection of wallpapers, 27 of them, 4.16MB. I would share this with you guys, but I am on dialup. I will upload it once and only once. If anyone has about 4MB of file storage to donate, PM me and I will send you them in a RAR or ZIP (specify) archive. Hosting them individually on ImageShack is out of the question - for now anyway. That would just take too long. I'd rather "set it and forget it" and let it do its thing while i go do mine.

They are discussing the prequel movie on the community forums for the company that makes the forums that this site uses, and someone posted a reply with just one image that summed it up, and had me falling out of my chair laughing:

Here's the link [click]

The image is in post #16.

You're right, I completely forgot about that. Actually I guess I meant to say Worf, not Michael Dorn. The Klingon in TUC was supposed to be Worf's uncle or something, but this was never established AFAIK. And he was named Worf as well IIRC.

Anyway, we made it to Season 3, and we've watched the true start of DS9 - 2x26 "The Jem'Hadar" and 3x01-02 "The Search". Oh, the first two seasons were important, but what they ultimately did with DS9 - as far as the Dominion War, anyway, started here. (Actually, I think the main arc is really Sisko's journey of faith with the Prophets, as that really encompassed all seven seasons.) But now we're into space battles, Dominion, and the Defiant, which is where the show really picked up. It only gets better with Worf joining, as well as the cosmetic changes - Sisko's new hairstyle and the new uniforms. And the whole Eddington subplot, and the woman Sisko meets - can't remember her name right now. And Martok. So there's good stuff coming as well.

As for Jen... I really had to sit quietly when she whined about Garak getting killed, and the Wormhole being destroyed, trapping Kira and Odo on the other side... until Kira and Odo got that door open, anyway. So she likes Garak (he's hard not to like) and she REALLY likes Bashir - though, I think more for his accent and looks than anything else. Women! (That, or she's just saying that to get me back for all the whistling I do when Dax comes on camera...) And she was really happy to see Odo find his home.