Tench745 0 Posted January 9, 2004 One day I was reading on some website about a very... interesting topic. The Klingon Forehead Problem was what they referred to it as. As most of us know, the Klingon in TOS had no ridges on their foreheads. When TNG came out they had ridges. No problem. Everyone accepted that TOS was low budget and couldn't afford the fancy foreheads. So Klingons always had ridges. Now for the problem... In DS9 Trials and Tribbleations No Klingons had Ridges, and Worf commented that the Klingons didn't talk about that time because the thing where they had no ridges was embarrassing. Well... that was a problem because in Voyager the crew come upon... KLINGONS! However, that is not all. These Klingons all have ridges, and they left the alpha Quadrant about the time of TOS. does anyone have any Ideas why this is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ace 0 Posted January 9, 2004 I'm not positive, and would have to rewatch the ep, but I think the Klingons you're referring to in VOY stated they had left Klingon space close to 50 yrs. ago. That would put them closer to the time of the Ent-B and C, when Klingons had forehead ridges. Other than that, yeh it's a big continuity issue and alot of people think ENT passed up an oportunity to explain it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam The Smuggler 1 Posted January 9, 2004 They Actually Got The Ridges In 'The Motion Picture', But Anywas Yes. This Has Been Am Issue...Especially After Enterprise Aired ENT - Pre-TOS Ridges TOS - Pre-Movie No Ridges TOS Movies - Now Ridges AAAAAAAAAHHHHH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Admiral Kirk 1 Posted January 9, 2004 I wished ENT would have expained it too. The ridge question does create a slight continuity problem for some. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ARMS 0 Posted January 9, 2004 I just think that those 'Klingons' are wannabies. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1 Posted January 9, 2004 One day I was reading on some website about a very... interesting topic. The Klingon Forehead Problem was what they referred to it as. As most of us know, the Klingon in TOS had no ridges on their foreheads. When TNG came out they had ridges. No problem. Everyone accepted that TOS was low budget and couldn't afford the fancy foreheads. So Klingons always had ridges. Now for the problem... In DS9 Trials and Tribbleations No Klingons had Ridges, and Worf commented that the Klingons didn't talk about that time because the thing where they had no ridges was embarrassing. Well... that was a problem because in Voyager the crew come upon... KLINGONS! However, that is not all. These Klingons all have ridges, and they left the alpha Quadrant about the time of TOS. does anyone have any Ideas why this is? The way I see it, TOS had a low budget. They were allways ment to be seen as they were in the movies and TNG. As for DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", that was DS9's 100th episode and a spoof at that. The scene about Klingon foreheads was a joke and not ment to be taken serriously. That's my take on the issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 0 Posted January 9, 2004 One day I was reading on some website about a very... interesting topic. The Klingon Forehead Problem was what they referred to it as. As most of us know, the Klingon in TOS had no ridges on their foreheads. When TNG came out they had ridges. No problem. Everyone accepted that TOS was low budget and couldn't afford the fancy foreheads. So Klingons always had ridges. Now for the problem... In DS9 Trials and Tribbleations No Klingons had Ridges, and Worf commented that the Klingons didn't talk about that time because the thing where they had no ridges was embarrassing. Well... that was a problem because in Voyager the crew come upon... KLINGONS! However, that is not all. These Klingons all have ridges, and they left the alpha Quadrant about the time of TOS. does anyone have any Ideas why this is? The way I see it, TOS had a low budget. They were allways ment to be seen as they were in the movies and TNG. As for DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations", that was DS9's 100th episode and a spoof at that. The scene about Klingon foreheads was a joke and not ment to be taken serriously. That's my take on the issue. Stardate:21426.9 Exactly what CLJP said.Yeh its a big continuity issue but I think its accepted that TOS could not afford the ridges on thier budget Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cassidy 0 Posted January 9, 2004 (edited) Exactly what CLJP said.Yeh its a big continuity issue but I think its accepted that TOS could not afford the ridges on thier budget Yes, but we could also argue that not only could they not afford the ridges, they didn't think to use them. Edited January 9, 2004 by cassidy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prometheus 0 Posted January 9, 2004 I have read the theories to explain this, on the net, in the past. I can't remember them all but they were something like this: That a disease struck the Klingons at this time causing them to temporarily loose their ridges That the Klingons shown on TOS had been surgically altered so as to be able to infiltrate the Federation covertly on spy missions That the increased human presence caused a fashion trend (!!!!) amongst some races to look more human That an omnipotent being (like a Q) thought it would be funny to make Klingons look a bit more human for a while Silly things like that. Do you have any more possible explanations - just for laughs!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cramase 0 Posted January 9, 2004 The 'Klingon's all catching a genetic disease that caused them to temporarily lose their ridges' explanation would be the most fitting within the Trek universe, but I believe it was purely down to the low budget of TOS that they didnt originally have them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ARMS 0 Posted January 9, 2004 I'm still comfy with my idea Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cramase 0 Posted January 9, 2004 What? So there was this whole bunch of people going around pretending to be Klingons?!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1 Posted January 9, 2004 I just think that those 'Klingons' are wannabies. Then how come some of them are seen as "real Klingons" on DS9? Besides, STAR TREK is the original story, so wouldn't the Klingons with ridges be the wanna be's? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cramase 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Exactly my point, Perhaps that's why Worf didnt want to explain the story, passing it off as 'embarrasing'!!!!! (Ok, maybe not, but its a funny idea) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tench745 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Well, I heard theories similar to those of prometheus, but if a genetic disease had been the culprit, it would have been a rather quick recovery. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cramase 0 Posted January 9, 2004 Remember that genetics had travelled a long way by that point, once thy isolated the gene that was causeing the problem, they could eradicate it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A l t e r E g o 9 Posted January 9, 2004 I never really have had a problem with the changing foreheads. I suspect tptb have a plan to eventualy address (and solve) it on ENT and if they do; great but if they don't - o'well. *waits patiently to see* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stelfan 0 Posted January 10, 2004 Exactly my point, Perhaps that's why Worf didnt want to explain the story, passing it off as 'embarrasing'!!!!! (Ok, maybe not, but its a funny idea) Perhaps the klingons all died about the time of TOS, and a new race secretly stepped in and pretended they were klingons.. That's why Worf passes it off as embarrassing, he is afraid that the truth might be revealed! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ARMS 0 Posted January 11, 2004 Exactly my point, Perhaps that's why Worf didnt want to explain the story, passing it off as 'embarrasing'!!!!! (Ok, maybe not, but its a funny idea) Perhaps the klingons all died about the time of TOS, and a new race secretly stepped in and pretended they were klingons.. That's why Worf passes it off as embarrassing, he is afraid that the truth might be revealed! :) OMG i've started off a trek conspiricy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stelfan 0 Posted January 11, 2004 Exactly my point, Perhaps that's why Worf didnt want to explain the story, passing it off as 'embarrasing'!!!!! (Ok, maybe not, but its a funny idea) Perhaps the klingons all died about the time of TOS, and a new race secretly stepped in and pretended they were klingons.. That's why Worf passes it off as embarrassing, he is afraid that the truth might be revealed! :) OMG i've started off a trek conspiricy! Perhaps you are the one responsible for this, ARMS! You destroyed an entire race, for that I challenge you! :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mike_Hines01 Posted January 11, 2004 If you go to: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/feat...ticle/1614.html there are some interesting theories on the ridged foreheads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tench745 0 Posted January 12, 2004 Now now... This is a discussion of theories, not a place for challenges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1 Posted January 12, 2004 Now now... This is a discussion of theories, not a place for challenges. [Teal'c]Indeed.[/Teal'c] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tench745 0 Posted January 12, 2004 I find the first Q theory, and the Under-Resourced Creator Theory to be most believable. The creator being, of course, Gene Roddenberry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
He Who Shall Not Be Named 2 Posted January 14, 2004 (edited) Of course if you want to talk about a discontinuity, Khaless and Kor have been portrayed as both smooth-headed and ridge-headed. In fact, both the smooth and ridged Kor were played by the same actor! Now try explaining that! In fact, a powerful Klingon insult is "Hab SoSlI' Quch!". It means "Your mother has a smooth forehead." Edited January 14, 2004 by lt_van_roy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest -*Tench745*- Posted January 14, 2004 Well that issue is discussed in the article in Mike_Hines01's post. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sam The Smuggler 1 Posted January 14, 2004 Kor were played by the same actor! Now try explaining that! And Kang & Koloth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tench745 0 Posted January 14, 2004 That is discussed in the previously mentined articles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VaBeachGuy 12 Posted May 20, 2010 Interesting thread, I missed it the first go around it looks like. Of course the whole debate has been resolved by Enterprise season 4 episodes Affliction and Divergence. So we now know that the whole "Ridgeless vs. Ridges" story. I myself liked the way they explained it. It was better than just leaving it at "We don't talk about it". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethlehem 7 Posted May 20, 2010 Never gave much thought too it. I always thought of ridges as part of the special effects. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites