The Borg Vs Us Military

[emanon 0]

Is it just me or does the US Military behave like the Borg wrt to the invasion of Iraq?

 

They tell the Iraqi's to capitulate, resistence is futile

 

They use technology to overwhelm them

 

They do not try to communicate with them, just attack

 

They offer freedom, inside the 'collective'

 

Just a thought...

[A l t e r E g o 9]

Please, no offenses taken to your post, however I must say I do not believe you know what you are talking about.

 

I have questions about somethings the Gov. have done and said but comparing our Military to the Borg in this instance is wrong.

 

We never told Iraq to capitulate, we told SADDAM to capitulate and the evidence showed he was not doing that so we went to war with HIM.

 

Our tech. is our strongest statement to the PEOPLE of Iraq, our war is with SADDAM, not them. They see the precision with which we TRIED to target ONLY saddam and his henchmen.

 

There were 12 years of communication with saddam.

 

The PEOPLE of Iraq ARE NOW BEING FREED from dictatorial oppression.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

*agrees with Alterego*

[Indy 8]

I think you're trying to make a Star Trek analogy, and if that's the case, I think a better one would be the situation with Bajor. We are there to oversee the withdrawal of an oppressive force. Sure, we are using a bit more force to assure that Saddam withdraws, but the Iraqi people are as much oppressed by Saddam as the Bajorans were by the Cardassians.

 

The Federation also stayed around for the rebuilding of Bajor, as I believe and hope that there will be a US presence in Iraq for that purpose as well.

[Takara_Soong 4]

There may be a Borg-ish quality to all politicians but I would never compare the men and women of the military to a Drone.

 

Whether or not you agreed with the action taken in Iraq, the men and women in the military deserve our support. I know many people were scared this would turn into another Vietnam but one big, big difference did emerge between the two at the very beginning and that is that the individual members of the military have been treated with the utmost respect compared to the Vietnam vets.

[xenexian 2]

I don't mean to make waves here but the military DOES make the soldiers drones in a sense. What do you think boot camp is for? Drill instructors jobs are to break the individual down so that they do take orders with no questions asked. Yes, they do maintain their personality but in the end they are taught not to question their superiors or defy them. You still cannot compare a military person as being a drone in the true sense of the word but they are trained to act as a group, protect the group and do their job as a group. I agree that the situation is more like what is portrayed with the situation on Bajor though and not like a borg assililation attack. But there are parallels as well. We would be wise not to dismiss that thought so casually.

[emanon 0]

Those who said that the Ba'ath Party were Cardassian:

 

Not really, The Ba'ath party is an external revolutionary idealism implemented by the Iraqi people. It is not even divided by religion or race as both Sunni and Shi'ite's are heavily involved with the Ba'ath Party.

 

I have discussed this topic on other boards, and although no one disagree's that Saddam's Regime was brutal, there appears to be no real reason put forward for the INVASION of a soveriegn state other than to look for Weapon's of Mass Destruction.

 

AND THERE ARE NO WEAPON'S OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ.

 

Why?

 

Because WoMD are designed to deter INVASION.

 

ONLY A MAD MAN would consider using them...which makes Saddam's Regime seem a little less 'bad' doesn't it?

 

Since they haven't used WoMD.

[emanon 0]

Why are the US Military Borgs?

 

Because they follow order's and do not question them.

 

The UK forces have rebelled and some have been sent back to the UK. Other's have insisted ona more Peace Keeping role, trying to ENGAGE the local population BEFORE trying to kill them.

 

Question: If the US military had been sent to 'liberate', would they not have sought the SURRENDER of the Iraqi army through negotiation?

 

Answer:

Their ORDERS were to destroy the Iraqi MILITARY and REGIME so it could then be REPLACED with one which would CAPITULATE to US demands.

 

If you do not trust my words try think it through for yourself.

 

Why does another country INVADE another country? Look at history, ignore who is doing the invading, think it through LOGICALLY like a VULCAN. Then maybe you will see through the LIES that are being used to hide the truth.

 

And what is the TRUTH?

That no one has the right to INVADE another country UNLESS the UN (Federation) AGREE'S it is necessary...

 

And they did not, now did they?

 

The US Military ARE behaving like Borg, IT'S THEIR JOB.

 

The only way to control Borg is to make sure the QUEEN does not have HOSTILE intent.

 

Yee-ha!!

[xenexian 2]

Well said, Emanon. I have to agree with you. If you put aside all the political propaganda and try to look at this entire situation logically and without any flag waving, your points make sense. At this point, only history and the court of world opinion will have final judgement on the U.S's action.

[Xeroc 0]

AND THERE ARE NO WEAPON'S OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ.

 

Why?

 

Because WoMD are designed to deter INVASION.

 

ONLY A MAD MAN would consider using them...which makes Saddam's Regime seem a little less 'bad' doesn't it?

 

Since they haven't used WoMD.

You're not giving the US enough credit. Who says Saddam didn't try to use them but couldn't because of US Special Forces?

 

Because they follow order's and do not question them.

If they didn't the military would not be effective!!! It is up to the leaders to determine what is right.

 

Question: If the US military had been sent to 'liberate', would they not have sought the SURRENDER of the Iraqi army through negotiation?

Where have you been???? Did you watch any news!!! Thousands of Iraqis surrenderred!!!

 

Answer:

Their ORDERS were to destroy the Iraqi MILITARY and REGIME so it could then be REPLACED with one which would CAPITULATE to US demands.

Better make that: Just the regime and the loyalists to it. Also - a regime that would better serve the Iraqi People!!!

 

And what is the TRUTH?

That no one has the right to INVADE another country UNLESS the UN (Federation) AGREE'S it is necessary...

The UN might have agreed to go to war but it would have been too late. If Saddam has WOMD then they might only agree to war when there is irrefutable proof - Millions dead in an attack with them!!!

 

 

I'm afraid I don't see much logic to you're idea.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

  If you put aside all the political propaganda and try to look at this entire situation logically and without any flag waving, your points make sense.

 

What about all of the Iraqis waving the AMERICAN flag?

 

Again I state that I may not agree on every thing our leadership has done or will do and regardless of whether or not any WoMD are found (jury is still out) those images alone serve to justify US actions imo.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

I don't mean to make waves here but the military DOES make the soldiers drones in a sense. What do you think boot camp is for? Drill instructors jobs are to break the individual down so that they do take orders with no questions asked. Yes, they do maintain their personality but in the end they are taught not to question their superiors or defy them.

 

Um, that's kinda how the military works. You do your job without asking questions. That's what you are trained to do. It's not a democracy or republic or whatever. Sometimes, you do what you're told or you end up dead. That's part of the reason why the military is as is.

 

I have discussed this topic on other boards, and although no one disagree's that Saddam's Regime was brutal, there appears to be no real reason put forward for the INVASION of a soveriegn state other than to look for Weapon's of Mass Destruction.

 

AND THERE ARE NO WEAPON'S OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ.

 

Why?

 

Because WoMD are designed to deter INVASION.

 

ONLY A MAD MAN would consider using them...which makes Saddam's Regime seem a little less 'bad' doesn't it?

 

Since they haven't used WoMD.

 

Um... He kills his soldiers if they dissagree with him. He'll torture them, rape the women and children in his family, kill people he loves, just to keep him in line. How is that not brutal? He's killed his own people by the thousands if not millions, just becuase they don't act the way he wants them to. Isn't that enough reason to go to war with Hussien? No weapons of mass destruction? Gee... Guess ya missed the news reporting that they found weapons of mass destruction, huh? Only a mad man would consider using them? News flash: Suddam Hussien is a mad mad. He'd even sell them to other countries without considerring the after effects.

 

Why are the US Military Borgs?

 

Because they follow order's and do not question them.

 

I could say the same about Starfleet.

 

Question: If the US military had been sent to 'liberate', would they not have sought the SURRENDER of the Iraqi army through negotiation?

 

Answer:

Their ORDERS were to destroy the Iraqi MILITARY and REGIME so it could then be REPLACED with one which would CAPITULATE to US demands.

 

If you do not trust my words try think it through for yourself.

 

Why does another country INVADE another country? Look at history, ignore who is doing the invading, think it through LOGICALLY like a VULCAN. Then maybe you will see through the LIES that are being used to hide the truth.

 

And what is the TRUTH?

That no one has the right to INVADE another country UNLESS the UN (Federation) AGREE'S it is necessary...

 

And they did not, now did they?

 

The US Military ARE behaving like Borg, IT'S THEIR JOB.

 

The only way to control Borg is to make sure the QUEEN does not have HOSTILE intent.

 

Yee-ha!!

 

We tried to seek the surrender of the Iraqi army. Only, if they start surrenderring, Hussien starts killing them. Understand? We aren't replacing their military. When all this is over, they will have their own military. Oh, and the thing about the military behaving like the Borg? They don't. Are they not allowed to question orders? Yes, other wise, the military wouldn't be able to function.

 

Well said, Emanon. I have to agree with you. If you put aside all the political propaganda and try to look at this entire situation logically and without any flag waving, your points make sense. At this point, only history and the court of world opinion will have final judgement on the U.S's action.

 

There are times when you simply cannot look at things logically. As Spock said in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end."

[emanon 0]

Waving the US flag

 

You have to remember these people do whatever the guys with guns ask them to do, or show them to do...

 

There was a reporter who discovered that the locals thought the US soldiers were Iranians!!

 

I am sure some of the people in Baghdad were pleased to the US soldiers, but the majority would be scared.

 

It is like having the former USSR 'liberate' the US...

 

The Military is not a democracy

Made me laugh, wrt the current emphasis on turning Iraq into a democracy. But modern warfare is pretty democratic, to a point. Soldiers are allowed to make their opinions known, because they do indeed live in a democracy.

 

wrt turning Iraq into a democracy. It maybe that they want to run it like Iran, since the shi'ites are in the majority. How would that sit with US policy?

 

Might prove interesting.

[cptwright 1]

first things first, A SOLDIER IN ANY BRANCH OF THE US MILITARY, has a DUTY to question ANY ORDERS that he/she might think are ILLEGAL, or IMPROPER. but they have a duty to follow any orders untill they have been given orders that are unlawful. so if doing what they freely sighned up for is making them borg i guess youve got a lot to learn. in any military i mean ANY, you need order, to run it efficently, and effectively. now on to the media, i think they should all shut the hell up, and if you beleive most of what they say, youve also got a lot to learn, all they want are ratings, havent you noticed if it bleeds it leads. their not interested in anything good, just getting the ratings so they can make more money. i have had a couple of personal dealings with the local media through the fire co. one day a few years ago we had a couple of fires on the same morning, one where we got the call after the fire was through the roof, and windows, where a man lost his life, the other was later that morning where we got the call in time to save the house with very little damage to it. you guess which one got the long story on the news, and which one got the 5 second oh yeah and this happened too. not all reporters are that way, but i would have to say a majority are. as far as WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION go, let me think, oh yeah, didnt we give them over a year to prepare for our coming, even a mad man such as he is can hide anything he wants in that much time. as far as not using them can you think of any better way to make people such as yourself think that hes not so bad and that the big bad usa is just looking for a fight. i dont have a love for our government but their no SADDAM, and nothing in this world is perfect. so think about that for a while, and how old are you anyway. and what country are you from.

 

 

LONG LIVE THE U.S.A. and all other FREEDOM LOVING COUNTRIES. founded by FREEDOM LOVING PEOPLE.

[cptwright 1]

OH YEAH I FORGOT,

 

 

ILL WAVE THE FLAG ANYTIME I WANT. ITS MY GOD GIVEN, SOLDIERS DYING FOR. FREEDOM LOVING RIGHT TOO.

 

just as much as it your RIGHT TO YOUR OWN OPINION. think about where that came from though. and that you sure wouldnt have that in IRAQ.

[ddillard 2]

Question: If the US military had been sent to 'liberate', would they not have sought the SURRENDER of the Iraqi army through negotiation?

We did give them every oportunity to surrender. If we had no interest in giving them a peaceful way out of the situation, our military would not have spent days dropping thousands of flyers in Iraq, giving the military instructions on how to surrender peacefully, and without being harmed. I strongly believe that we have given the Iraqi military members every possible chance to surrender.

 

I also believe that we must protect those that cannot protect themselves. And that is exactly what we are doing in Iraq, protecting the citizens of Iraq against those that would harm them.

 

I remember reading about another time when our country did not intervene early because we wanted to respect the soverenty of another country, and we did not want to do anything until we had absolute proof that there was wrong doing, and how many people could have been saved if we had acted towards Hitler sooner?