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T'Pol. Like or Dislike and Why?

T'Pol. Like or Dislike and Why?  

62 members have voted

  1. 1. T'Pol. Like or Dislike and Why?

    • Yes, I like T'pol because...
      35
    • No, I dislike T'Pol because...
      9
    • I'm still not sure, call me a fence sitter about this.
      18


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im not really sure any more if i like her or not.. yes i may think shes kinda destroying the vulcan way and how vulcans have been since the original series.. i hater her for that.. (by the way pon'far only happens to males *glares evily at script writers* make up your mind!) but shes also a fair character so i voted neither yes or no..

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They wanted to create the triangle of Spock, McCoy and Kirk again, in T'Pol, Trip and Archer.

So I take it you voted Dislike?

Actually I didn't vote :laugh:

Why not, if I may ask.

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They wanted to create the triangle of Spock, McCoy and Kirk again, in T'Pol, Trip and Archer.

So I take it you voted Dislike?

Actually I didn't vote :laugh:

Why not, if I may ask.

I was more interested on people's comments.

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They wanted to create the triangle of Spock, McCoy and Kirk again, in T'Pol, Trip and Archer.

So I take it you voted Dislike?

Actually I didn't vote :laugh:

Why not, if I may ask.

I was more interested on people's comments.

I really would like to know in what context you meant your statement regarding Archer/Trip/t'Pol but ok then, I guess it's your prerogative not to explain. See you around.

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Oh Unicorn Hunter - you seem to take the words right out of my mouth. I find I agree with virtually everything you say. I totally agree that there has been no basis at all for this relationship - there has been no indication at all that either character 'feels' anything for the other. The lead up scene was completely devoid of emotional tension on both sides. And I am sad that the Spock/McCoy dynamic that did work for them may be lost forever.

 

And whilst agreeing that Mr Trinneer minus his shirt is certainly a wonderful sight to behold, I am furious that the most talented actor on the show has had nothing better to do all season. I know he was amazing in Similitude but that was not Trip - Trip has had no development at all.

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I was actually rooting for a Trip/T'Pol relationship down the line, but this is definitely NOT the way I wanted it to start out. :)

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

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I voted to sit on the fence on this one. I do not have strong feelings either way. I read all the back and forth above, and I remain uncommitted either way.

 

I said what I had to say about the Trip/T'Pol relationship in the Harbinger thread.

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And all of this because of some technobabble excuse, it might have been realistic if instead of showing her butt off and acting like a spoilt brat, they showed the inner personal struggle that her predicament presents instead of "the experimentation with humanity"

 

What techbobabble excuse? She doesn't show her butt off, the camera crew does. When has she acted like a spoiled brat? They have showed an inner personal struggle in several episodes. What's wrong with experrimenting with emotions, hmm? I'm still thinking this will lead to some kind of horrific break down, turning her into a violent grunt, showing us just exactly why Vulcans repress their emotions.

 

The technobabble excuse I was referring to is the Trellium D substance which affects the ability for Vulcans to contol their emotions. Experimenting with emotions is not logical for a Vulcan, especially a full Vulcan.

 

That's not a technobable excuse. She lost control for that one episode. If you would watch the show more carefully, you'd learn that Doctor Phlox was able to repair the damage to T'Pol. Experrimenting with emotions may not be logical for a Vulcan, but ya know what? Not all Vulcans are the same.

 

Well, the lack of a technobabble excuse is even worse, it's B&B cloning seven and Data on a whim and using that exploration of humanity as an excuse to show skin dring the sweeps, for ratings purposes.

When has she explorred humanity? I have yet to see this and I've seen every episode. As for showing skin, that's at the request of UPN.

 

Harbinger, and the skin showing was unnecessary, regardless of who demands it.

 

 

All of this confirms that not only can't B&B actually understand what a Vulcan actually is, let alone even write one properley but also that they seem quite content with cloning seven of nine for the sake of the ratings.

 

B&B do understand what a Vulcan is, you just put Vulcans on a pedastol too high for B&B to ever reach. They're written T'Pol just fine as far as I'm concerned. T'Pol has nothing in common with Seven beyond wardrobe. B)

 

I don't think I'm putting them on a pedestal, I just think that B&B wanted to emulate the success of Spock's character by having another Vulcan on the show, in an effort to recreate the McCoy/Spock/Kirk relationship in an attempt to create a formula in which to attract casual viewers to the show.

 

I agree, but it won't work if T'Pol is a Spock-clone. ;)

 

Exactly, I believe that there should not be a Vulcan regular character in the first place.

 

Why? I believe there should, since ENT's main two races are Humans and Vulcans.

 

I think the crew should have been all human.

 

 

As far as similarities to Seven is concerned, I see a lot more than just the clothing similarities; the recurring theme of exploring humanity was first done with Data (rather successfully), then done with Seven (successful to a point, in an attempt to recapture the same magic acheived with Data) and now with T'pol.

 

Data wanted to explore humanity.

Seven was attempting to recover her lost humanity.

T'Pol is experrimenting with emotions.

 

Where's the similarity? I have yet to see a single episode where T'Pol explores humanity.

 

She mentioned the experimentation with emotions, in doing so she has expressed an interest in understanding humanity through emotions. A recurring theme as I said.

 

Experrimenting with emotions does not mean she's exploring humanity.

 

Spock - Struggled with Human emotions.

Data - Wanted to become more Human.

Odo - Tried to understand solids.

Seven - Struggled with regaining her Humanity.

T'Pol - Explorring emotions.

 

Just how are Data and Seven cloned into T'Pol? :)

 

I need to correct your Odo explanation; Odo was trying to understand himself and his people more than understanding the solids.

 

Data’s curiosity of human behaviour, and Seven’s initial reluctance to allow those emotions to show through. She’s a hodgepodge of various elements which comes across as very inconsistent on screen.

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

 

 

Guilty conscience? I've named no names. B) Just stating my opinion. :)

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I'm really interested in what you have to say Stewey - I think using Spock as a benchmark is an ideal way to see what is wrong with T'Pol.  He was half human after all and so has set down a pretty clear guideline beyond which she cannot go. As a full Vulcan she might be interested in studying humans but not at all in exploring her humanity - she has nothing to explore!  There is absolutely no basis for what happened in Harbinger and it was written in such a way as to be detrimental to both characters. I am also interested in your point that Vulcan females do not go through ponn farr - could you let me know where that is stated?  It seems a bit unfair - I think that even if they don't, evolution would have been kind enough to ensure that they operated on a similar seven year cycle or there would be a lot of frustrated Vulcan females about  - wait a minute do we have an answer here??!! :)

The line from Star Trek III where Saavik states;

 

Ponn Farr, Vulcan Males must endure it every 7th year of their adult lives

 

As far as evolution is concerned, given the lifespan of Vulcans is well over twice the lifespan of Humans (close to 200 years), then the Vulcans living in Ent's timeframe would be still living in TOS' time too. Evolution takes longer, given the lifespan of the life-form.

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

I would not consider what Alterego said as a personal attack as no names have been mentioned, hence it can't be personal.

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

I would not consider what Alterego said as a personal attack as no names have been mentioned, hence it can't be personal.

Alterego is only speaking the truth which many of us agree with. I guess for some the truth does hurt.

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In this case, truth is relative, but let's just allow people to agree to disagree. :lol:

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What is a basher? Seriously, are we only a fan if we love every scene ever produced? I had some serious misgivings when ENT started but I stuck with it but I still think they have made some bad episodes.

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

 

 

Guilty conscience? I've named no names. :hand: Just stating my opinion. B)

Making rash generalisations about people you label as Bashers. It hardly matters if you name names or not.

 

Anyway, I'm not going to lower myself to flame back, it't not the right thing to do. :lol:

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The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

I would not consider what Alterego said as a personal attack as no names have been mentioned, hence it can't be personal.

Alterego is only speaking the truth which many of us agree with.

in your opinon, remember there is no such truth to a flame, only irrational hatred.

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ra
The bashers are causing the problems, my opinion of ALL ENT DIS-contuntity issues within its self-are the fault of the crybabies always whining for change.

How can TPTB craft a seamless saga when they have to keep stopping and retooling things every other episode?

I wish B&B would stop allowing them-selves to be pressured into making so many changes & come hell of high water, stick to one program.

I hope you retract your personal attack on posters on this board before a moderator takes action against you.

 

There is no need for this hostile attitude.

I would not consider what Alterego said as a personal attack as no names have been mentioned, hence it can't be personal.

Alterego is only speaking the truth which many of us agree with.

in your opinon, remember there is no such truth to a flame, only irrational hatred.

Just like your irrational hatered of Enterprise.

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I know for a fact that, by age, at least two of the people in this discussion are supposedly mature adults. Please keep that in mind when each of you decide where you want this topic to go. :lol:

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The line from Star Trek III where Saavik states;

 

 

Ponn Farr, Vulcan Males must endure it every 7th year of their adult lives

 

As far as evolution is concerned, given the lifespan of Vulcans is well over twice the lifespan of Humans (close to 200 years), then the Vulcans living in Ent's timeframe would be still living in TOS' time too. Evolution takes longer, given the lifespan of the life-form.

Nice one Stewey - now you've said it I do remember the quote. I guess we can rescue the writers halfway by saying that it doesn't necessarily exclude Vulcan females from going through 'something' every seven years but they have shot themselves in the foot by already calling what T'Pol went through in Bounty her ponn farr.

 

I am still interested in the biological consequences of this though since I can't understand how a species would be successful with different mating urges. This aspect of evolution would clearly be well in place thousands if not millions of years prior to the period of time Enterprise deals with. So what are the options?

 

Well I suppose first there could be no urge at all on the female side - they just lie back like damp sardines and think of Vulcan when their mates go through ponn farr because they have 'logically' determined that this must be endured to procreate the species.

 

Vulcan females could always be ready to mate - but I think the consequences of this are too far fetched. It would mean I think that the females would have developed as always on the look out for the males 'on heat' and there would probably be fights to the death to mate. And multiple matings for a male going through his cycle. Nothing we know of Vulcan bonding supports this idea - as far as we know it's once and for life.

 

Which means there they are in a relationship with only one going through a seven yearly cycle and the other either not caring or going through that same cycle. I've still got to come down on the side of a female equivalent to ponn farr - I don't think a species would evolve any other way. I can't think of a single example in the animal kingdom where mating urges aren't harmonious - it's just how species propogate themselves and survive from generation to generation.

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Since we've gotten into a side topic of Ponn Farr.

 

1. T'Pol's experience in Bounty was specifically mentioned as being brought on pre-maturely because of a virus and that doesn't necessarily negate her normal cycle.

 

2. Remember B'Elanna's experience in with Voric. He touched her and (somehow?) brought on Ponn Farr in species that doesn't even experience it by disturbing her chemical balance. It makes sense that this tactic would work with Vulcan couples.

 

3. It is of course a purely fictional concept created by writers. If both genders experience Ponn Farr and marriages are arranged - what do they do - arrange marriages between persons of exact ages so they'll enter Ponn Farr at the same time. :force:

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