Who is the best? Seven or the Doctor?

[Kor37 9]

http://www.fhmonline.com/girls_girls_of_fh...=1&stn_id=1

 

for kor and Van (its jeri ryans fhm shoot)

Much appreciated but I bought that issue the moment it hit the newstands!........

[Son of Kor 0]

The Doctor.

I never liked Seven of Nine. And I couldn't tell you why. The character just never worked for me. That she became such a huge part of Voyager's final years disappointed me, as I felt other characters could have been further developed and fleshed out.

 

But old Doc was great. One of my all time favorite Trek characters ever.

[Lady Britannia 0]

The EMH is the better character.

 

Seven Of Nine was a walking pair of breasts. Even Jeri Ryan knew why she was added to the show.

 

They tried it a second time for the insipid "T'Pol" only this time, it didn't work.

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

I liked and hated both characters at the same time. Both were well-acted, imo, though Picardo definitely has the upper hand there, and in many of the storylines it was impossible to dislike them, given the comical moments they had. However, the Doctor was always at one extreme it seemed. First, his harsh coldness, then his overzealous embracing of humanity, his self-righteousness for photonic rights, his extreme remorse when he fouled up.... it all just made him unbelievable. Maybe if they would have let Janeway dress him down and give him the lecture on how he'd let the captain and crew down instead of him doing it and turning into an emotional wreck every fricken time, he'd have been a more likable character.

 

By contrast, Seven was almost the opposite. Despite her tutorial progress with the Doctor in humanities, her willingness to learn was almost that of a nine-year old boy getting dragged off to piano lessons when he just wants to play football with his friends (gridiron or soccer, the sentiment's the same either way). She was frigid most of the way, but never seemed completely so, and then she just seemed to jump way ahead in Season Seven. Likewise, it made her character on the slightly annoying side. Yeah, you've got the sex appeal factor, but let's face it, that's been with Star Trek since the beginning when you had Nichelle Nichols, Majel Barrett and especially Grace Lee Whitney.

 

That said, I liked both the Doctor and Seven of Nine much better than I liked Kes.

[Lady Britannia 0]

Attractive characters indeed have been a long-time feature of Star Trek. But the difference is that with characters such as Kira for example, she was attractive, but that is an additional factor outside of the core elements, strength and purpose of her character. With Seven and T'Pol, their main purpose was the sexual factor.

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

Yeah, but c'mon... Yeoman Rand? I'd even go so far as to say Counselor Troi, what with the catsuits and the lousy lines given to her.... I'd still say that sexual attraction was their primary purpose as well.

 

Though, for what it's worth, I didn't think T'Pol was all that attractive. Hoshi was cuter.

[Lady Britannia 0]

Yeah, but c'mon... Yeoman Rand? I'd even go so far as to say Counselor Troi, what with the catsuits and the lousy lines given to her.... I'd still say that sexual attraction was their primary purpose as well.

 

Though, for what it's worth, I didn't think T'Pol was all that attractive. Hoshi was cuter.

 

The female characters in TOS have to be looked at in context. It was the 1960's therefore the short dresses and boots were the fashion at the time. Troi I think was on that show because it was said to be a reflection of the 1980's where therapists were in fashion. They struggled terribly with Troi as a character (and also in appearance, judging by the amount of "looks" she had in seven seasons).

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

How, in your opinion, is the context different with Seven and T'Pol? IMO, the TOS characters were still looking sexy with what was considered sexy (in terms of fashion) at the time. I'm not disagreeing with you completely, mind you. If you watched the special features involving Seven of Nine, the costume designer herself said that with Troi, they had the qualms about making her look like a professional Starfleet officer; however, once Seven arrived, they had no problem keeping her in a catsuit.

[Lady Britannia 0]

How, in your opinion, is the context different with Seven and T'Pol?

 

Both actresses fully acknowledge the reason why they were added to their respective shows.

 

That being, to provide sex appeal and little else.

 

IMO, the TOS characters were still looking sexy with what was considered sexy (in terms of fashion) at the time. I'm not disagreeing with you completely, mind you. If you watched the special features involving Seven of Nine, the costume designer herself said that with Troi, they had the qualms about making her look like a professional Starfleet officer; however, once Seven arrived, they had no problem keeping her in a catsuit

 

As Ronald Moore pointed out (correctly IMO), Seven of Nine walking around in a catsuit made absolutely no sense, since no other person on the ship walked around like that, unless Starfleet has a little known "sexy women must wear catsuits" uniform policy.

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

How, in your opinion, is the context different with Seven and T'Pol?

 

Both actresses fully acknowledge the reason why they were added to their respective shows.

 

That being, to provide sex appeal and little else.

 

Whether or not the actresses acknowledge that their main purpose was to provide sex appeal doesn't change the fact that that is why they were added to the show.

 

IMO, the TOS characters were still looking sexy with what was considered sexy (in terms of fashion) at the time. I'm not disagreeing with you completely, mind you. If you watched the special features involving Seven of Nine, the costume designer herself said that with Troi, they had the qualms about making her look like a professional Starfleet officer; however, once Seven arrived, they had no problem keeping her in a catsuit

 

As Ronald Moore pointed out (correctly IMO), Seven of Nine walking around in a catsuit made absolutely no sense, since no other person on the ship walked around like that, unless Starfleet has a little known "sexy women must wear catsuits" uniform policy.

 

I understand and to a degree, I agree. However, when you look at pics of Ryan and Blalock offset, you realize the catsuits are actually pretty flattening (note I said flattening as opposed to flattering), so they aren't showing as much as they could have. Also, imo, it's still a common denominator of sex appeal, though the numerators of fashion and purpose may alter slightly, if you'll forgive the fractured fraction.

[Lady Britannia 0]

Whether or not the actresses acknowledge that their main purpose was to provide sex appeal doesn't change the fact that that is why they were added to the show.

 

That's precisely what I said in my previous post.

 

I understand and to a degree, I agree. However, when you look at pics of Ryan and Blalock offset, you realize the catsuits are actually pretty flattening (note I said flattening as opposed to flattering), so they aren't showing as much as they could have. Also, imo, it's still a common denominator of sex appeal, though the numerators of fashion and purpose may alter slightly, if you'll forgive the fractured fraction.

 

I don't think they could have shown any more, short of appearing in bikinis.

 

Seven and T'Pol represent the dumbing down of Star Trek. Perhaps it's not a co-incidence that both characters appeared on network shows.

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

Whether or not the actresses acknowledge that their main purpose was to provide sex appeal doesn't change the fact that that is why they were added to the show.

 

That's precisely what I said in my previous post.

Ok, I thought you were saying it was different BECAUSE Ryan and Blalock acknowledged as much. Whitney, Nichols, and Sirtis may not have admitted that was the reason, but their primary purpose was still sex appeal.

 

I understand and to a degree, I agree. However, when you look at pics of Ryan and Blalock offset, you realize the catsuits are actually pretty flattening (note I said flattening as opposed to flattering), so they aren't showing as much as they could have. Also, imo, it's still a common denominator of sex appeal, though the numerators of fashion and purpose may alter slightly, if you'll forgive the fractured fraction.

 

I don't think they could have shown any more, short of appearing in bikinis.

They actually showed very little in the way of skin, for the most part. They could have had them in shorts or a skirt, short-sleeves, or even a top showing mid-riff (as they did with T'Pol in the "In The Mirror, Darkly" two-parter.) Most we usually got was silhouette, and even then, in comparison to the full voluptuousness of their bodies, what they did wear made them look flatter than they are.

 

Seven and T'Pol represent the dumbing down of Star Trek. Perhaps it's not a co-incidence that both characters appeared on network shows.

 

No argument there, though I think all the Star Trek shows were network shows originally. First-run syndication is pretty rare for dramas; it's usually just your talk, game, or dating shows.

 

EDIT: Ok, TNG was a first-run syndication. TOS was on NBC, though.

Edited November 27, 2007 by youbroughtheryouRiker

[Dabo Queen 0]

The doctor, no question.

[TJ Phaserman 2]

well seven to me was someone like data. except could recall anything from memory lass than 6 seconds after looking at something. not to mention some of the episodes in seasons 5 and 6 made her more human in a way.

[Tina da Trekkie 0]

Hi, I'm new to the site so if anyone knows anything I should know please tell me. :VBGal: I like the Doctor better than Seven simply because he is just more solid, if you'll pardon the pun. He just seems to have more emotional depth to me. Also, I'm a die hard J/C fan and Seven ruined what I thought would be a really great pairing. HELLO!? Angry Warrior Story? Remember that?

[CaptainsBeauty 0]

No question about it, The Doctor!

[PhaseSniper 0]

Remember the episode where the Doctor was in control of Seven's body? Thats what I vote for!

[Dabo Queen 0]

The EMH is the better character.

 

Seven Of Nine was a walking pair of breasts. Even Jeri Ryan knew why she was added to the show.

 

They tried it a second time for the insipid "T'Pol" only this time, it didn't work.

 

 

I'm with you, LB...though I truly feel bad for Jeri Ryan that her acting talent was wasted on foam-padded catsuits and pointless storylines. Half of the fans (generally the male half) was like "Huh huh huh...breasts.", while the other half couldn't stand Seven because she served absolutely no purpose outside of being 'the hot chick'.

 

And youbroughtheryouRiker, I think the difference between characters like Seven and characters like Yeoman Rand is that virtually every single episode for four seasons didn't focus on Yeoman Rand.

[Ak-Var 0]

I like both, but, I prefer Seven of Nine. :jem'hadar:

[KayTroi 0]

I chose Seven of Nine. <_<

[krysis 2]

I like both Seven and the Doctor. I like Seven cos she'd the the one I'd love to have a date with. However, my vote goes to the Doctor because... well, I think he developed very well from season 1 all through to the last episode of the last season.

[Admiral Kirk 1]

Seven of nine for obvious visual reasons....

[star_rose 0]

it seems that the Doctor had won...

[GhostofMajorHayes 10]

Seven of nine for obvious visual reasons....

 

 

Quoted for truth. :angry:

[youbroughtheryouRiker 2]

And youbroughtheryouRiker, I think the difference between characters like Seven and characters like Yeoman Rand is that virtually every single episode for four seasons didn't focus on Yeoman Rand.

 

True, though Grace Lee Whitney didn't have her name in the opening credits either. :angry:

Edited April 5, 2008 by youbroughtheryouRiker

[Galatea 0]

God! Could you have picked a harder question? I voted for the Doctor, because he was on longer. I love him! But Seven's wicked too!

[rob39874 0]

As much as I would like Seven to tell me Resistance is futile I have voted for the Doctor since I thought he was a better character and had elements of Mccoy which I always laugh at/

[recycle 0]

Well, some time seven is the best, mostly i like doctor..