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Janeway and Chekotay

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For me in many ways Voyager was a long series of missed opportunities. There were so many things they could have done that would have made the series better, deeper, more enjoyable. Probably the biggest failing of Voyager for me was that in seven years out in deep space Janeway and Chakotay never admit their feelings or profess their love. Hell, in seven years they never even get it on -doesn't that seem highly improbable? I don't know that they could have made it last but given their situation I just found the shows coyness here unsupportable. It's almost as if the producers of the show were essentially denying Janeway's womanliness just because she had to Captain a starship, an odd attitude given Kirk. Even Sisko had a wife and then later a regular girlfriend. But Voyager seemed oddly puritan in many ways even down to denying Seven the chance for genuine happiness due to her programming (much like Angel in Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

 

What do you all think?

Edited by Validus

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A Kirk-type Captain was interpreted by the audience as a guy being a guy. If Janeway had shown the same sexual needs it would have been interpreted by the audience as either being "slutty" or a "cradle-robber" since she was probably older than most of the crew.

 

Of course the real question is why didn't Tuvoc and Neelix hook up.

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Slutty? A middle-aged woman with sexual/emotional needs simply doing what any man in the same position would do is "slutty"? That's something of a double-standard, don't you think?

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Slutty? A middle-aged woman with sexual/emotional needs simply doing what any man in the same position would do is "slutty"? That's something of a double-standard, don't you think?

 

I agree it is a double standard. However, that is how the viewing audience might interpret it. You need look no further than "Sex in the City" or "Desperate Housewives" or "Footballer's Wives" to get my point. A sci-fi writer wouldn't want to risk his series being lumped in that category.

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Why not? All those shows you listed are actually pretty good. I see no reason you can't have a good science fiction show with real adults with real adult needs- check out Babylon-5, LEXX, and even the new Doctor Who. I'm not saying that science fiction should be "Sex and the Space Station" -but I'm always annoyed by the idea that a hero should be chaste. That's one of the things I hated about the way the writers handled Janeway as well as Picard (who almost never got laid). Rick Berman would have had us believe that Picard spent the whole of his free time drinking tea, reading James Joyce, and listening to baroque music. Riker was far more realistic even if he was perhaps not as likable...no one could deny that Riker was at least more interesting.

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The reason that Janeway and Chakotay never hooked up is that it would have been totally inappropriate. You don't have relationships with your subordinates. Even Kirk never did that. Picard tried it and look what happened there. Sisko's relationships were always with people outside of his crew. Besides, Janeway had that holodeck guy, didn't she?....lol

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Sure for the junior officers you can get away with it. But the Captaincy? I doubt it. The audience looks to that role to define the series, and the series will be interpeted according to the cultural norms of the time.

 

In the late 60s and early 70s there was the "free love" era. Kirk's role was written as a product of that era. His conduct was not that different from what you might expect a single CEO of that era to have.

 

In the late 80s and early 90s sexual harrassment became a huge cultural concern, so they had to tone down the Captain's sexuality. Picard was the result. I think they went overboard by painting him as introverted as he was but Stewart was able to pull it off.

 

By the time DS9 aired society began to feel that we had gone too far with the sexual harrassment issue so the writers lightened up when it came to Sisko. They allowed him to date, have affairs, etc. However, he never crossed the line by dating someone under his command (something even the stoic Picard did on occasion).

 

With Janeway, however, she was engaged to be married. Her hope of seeing him again was part of her drive to get home. So far from home she had to keep the crew's discipline intact, so her own conduct had to be above reproach. Society had become used to seeing sexually agressive women in strong roles, maybe even lead roles, but even then the woman was usually painted as the villan (Fatal Attraction, Disclosure, etc.).

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The reason that Janeway and Chakotay never hooked up is that it would have been totally inappropriate. You don't have relationships with your subordinates. Even Kirk never did that.

 

Yes...but if Kirk had been stuck out in the Delta Quadrent for years and years he could have jumped the Yeoman and you know it. Inappropriateness isn't the issue...human nature and what is realistic is.

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With Janeway, however, she was engaged to be married. Her hope of seeing him again was part of her drive to get home.

 

 

I think that was a pretty big factor even though it wasn't discussed much in the show. She was in love with that guy, and I don't think she would have thrown it all away for Chekotay. I admit I was always wanting them to hook up, but at the same time, she was already in love with someone else, and I'm glad that she stayed faithful to him. And besides, that would be such a blow to Chekotay's manhood if they did have a relationship and got married. His wife would be his captain, ouch.

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Not only that but Chakotay was a felon, at best a fugitive, for most of the series. However, notice that even after returning to the Alpha quadrant Janeway was still Janeway and not Mrs. whatshisname.

 

As far as Kirk goes, if the NCC-1701 was stranded in the Delta Quadrant then Kes would be in trouble. (What is the age of consent among the Ocampa anyway? 3? 4?)

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Am I wrong here or didn't Mark move on with another woman when he thought Janeway was dead? I distinctly recall an episode where she talks to Mark when they finally got in touch with the Alpha Quadrant....

:blink:

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I think that's right he did get married. Janeway and Chakotay were not a good idea. I think that you should only have a romantic story if you are writing a romantic story. When coming up with a tv series don't say at the end "Oh and these two characters we'll have a romantic undertone with them." Look at SG-1, great series, love it, but why the Jack Sam thing there was no need. With Voyager, Tom and Belanna made sense because it wasn't planned and they didn't like each other at the start, But over time and good writing and acting I bought it, Chakotay and Seven the same not with the didn't like each other but the time and writing. But Janeway and Chakotay just wouldn't have worked. They started with it in the background from the start every so often and i couldn't buy it.

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I really don't like when the male/female leads get involved in a relationship - it seems to imply that men and women can't be partners, co-workers or professionals without getting "romantic".

 

And it's not just scifi series - most series let their characters romances be with guest stars or recurring guest stars not series regulars. One reason is that teasing is more attention grabbing and entertaining that actual relationships (this is something I read about tv and relationships) - I think Moonlighting was a good example of this.

 

I agree that Janeway and Chakotay should not have gotten involved - that sort of involvement makes things really messy and the demands of their position - isolated as they were - was more demanding than life would have been in the Alpha Quadrant. I mean how many people break up and can't be in the same room with their ex?

 

Yes, Mark "dear johned" her - Eye of the Needle; but I think she had a couple of romances with the alien of the week.

 

Besides don't forget she did mate with Tom in their evolutionized state. :P And Q did his best to seduce her.

Q: "I'm sure it's been a while..."

Janeway: "it'll be a while longer"

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Have you noticed that many shows where the male and female leads finally get together is also the point when the shows start to suck?

 

I Dream Of Jeannie

Moonlighting

Get Smart

Cheers

 

The list goes on and on. It never seems to work.

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First of all, you guys are hilarious and your comments are awesome. However, IMO, I think these two were never meant to hook up because their flirting and candelit dinners, like Seven of Nine's bimbesque body, were a simply ploy, a hook to keep you coming back to see if it will happen and how the writers will portray "the morning after." Hell, that's what kept me watching. Sometimes the tension just go so hot.

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Being captain means making a lot of personal sacrifices. Janeway knew that she couldn't have a romantic relationship with a member of her crew. It would have been bad for morale, and the relationship would have been doomed from the start anyway. Remember Picard and Neela Daren?

 

I can only imagine the chaos that would ensue if the the ship's two seniormost officers were sleeping together.

 

Janeway was probably grateful for the holodeck. And she probably had a few private programs stored away. Hell, I would have if I had a holodeck. Now let's see, where's that program Shakira 1-alpha......

Edited by Captain Armstrong

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I don't think senior officers especially the Captain should fratinize with below rank officers on board thier own ship. For obvious reasons.

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Agreed. Its just a bad idea. Never stopped Kirk, but Kirk was, well, Kirk. <_<

Kirk never banged a crew member (except for Mirror:Kirk). He wanted to bang Rand but didn't probably for many of the reasons stated above.

 

.....and if you're talking horndogs, Sisko was the biggest horndog in Trek hands down!

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Kirk never banged a crew member (except for Mirror:Kirk). He wanted to bang Rand but didn't probably for many of the reasons stated above.

 

.....and if you're talking horndogs, Sisko was the biggest horndog in Trek hands down!

 

 

Thank god Sisko never screwed Kira. *retches in the deepest pit of stomach*

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.....and if you're talking horndogs, Sisko was the biggest horndog in Trek hands down!

Baby...how was Sisko a horndog? *tiny Pygmy voice* I missed something. *twirls a blonde braid* I thought Riker was the biggest horndog. How often did we see that whore with the same woman twice?

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.....and if you're talking horndogs, Sisko was the biggest horndog in Trek hands down!

Baby...how was Sisko a horndog? *tiny Pygmy voice* I missed something. *twirls a blonde braid* I thought Riker was the biggest horndog. How often did we see that whore with the same woman twice?

Lets see.....I think that Sisko banged Jennifer, Cassidy Yates, and.......everyone in the mirror universe. He banged Mirror Kira, Mirror Jennifer and Mirror Dax. The Mirrow universe was Sisko's personal Playboy Club... <_<

How smug he must have felt when he got back to his universe. Can you imagine him going up to Dax and saying..."You know, Jadzia.....that beauty mark on your butt is really cool!" and Dax giving him one of these..... :elephant:

I bet he was just dying to tell them that he banged their Mirror counterparts..... :elephant:

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Lets see.....I think that Sisko banged Jennifer, Cassidy Yates, and.......everyone in the mirror universe. He banged Mirror Kira, Mirror Jennifer and Mirror Dax. The Mirrow universe was Sisko's personal Playboy Club... <_<

How smug he must have felt when he got back to his universe. Can you imagine him going up to Dax and saying..."You know, Jadzia.....that beauty mark on your butt is really cool!" and Dax giving him one of these..... <_<

I bet he was just dying to tell them that he banged their Mirror counterparts..... :elephant:

 

LOL - I forgot about that! :elephant:

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I think it would have been a very bad idea for them to become involved. No one should ever get involved with someone who is in their direct chain of command, as it creates a conflict of interest.

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