No One Is To Blame

[Capt_Picard 0]

Ken Schram Commentary: No One Is To Blame

 

July 19, 2005

 

By Ken Schram

 

SEATTLE - A 12 year old is dead. Who do you blame? Some people have been e-mailing me saying the parents are to blame: How could a 12 year old be out at midnight, shooting bottle rockets at cars on a busy road? (Read the original story here.) I won't go there. In their grief, those parents may end up blaming themselves, but as far as I can tell, they're the only ones with the right to do that. The Pierce County Prosecutor thinks he might want to blame the driver who got out his car to chase the kids. He's deciding if charges should be filed because, in an effort to get away, the 12 year old ran into traffic, was hit by a car and killed. Unless some extraordinary new information comes out, I don't think charges are called for. That driver only did what a lot of people would've done if someone was shooting bottle rockets at them. Some people actually want to blame the kid, saying he brought it all on himself. If that's what you think, I wish I could bluntly say what I think of you. Even with the expletives deleted, I hope you get what I mean. A 12 year old is dead. And when you get right down to it, no matter how hard some will try, there's really no one to blame. Want to share your thoughts with Ken Schram? You can e-mail him at kenschram@komo4news.com

What do you think?

[Validus 0]

Well-

 

If the story as you present it is correct, then I think the kid's death, while certainly unfortunate...is frankly his own fault and the parents are certainly culpable in letting a child that age run free that late at night unsupervised.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what all kids do! Playing around with his friend, making a little trouble... I bet there is no person here (apart from maybe HRH...) that can say truthfully that he/she didn't make trouble as a kid. Also, the parent's can not be held responsible, because they probably just let the kid go play with friends... you can't control what your kids do at their friends houses, unless your a really, really bad control freak.

[Validus 0]

I see...

 

-so you're saying that had the kid's bottlerocket caused the guy in the car to swerve...lose control...smash into a tree...and get the guy killed...that's just "kids being kids"?

 

I don't think your looking at this from all angles.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Yes,it would be "kids being kids"... What other angle should i look at it from?

[HRH The KING 0]

I bet there is no person here (apart from maybe HRH...) that can say truthfully that he/she didn't make trouble as a kid.

 

I certainly didn't fire projectiles at moving cars or run in front of heavy high-speed traffic.

 

Yes,it would be "kids being kids"

 

What kind of lunatic kids did you hang out with when you were twelve.

 

You think doing that kind of stupid crap is normal behaviour for kids?

 

:lol:

Edited July 20, 2005 by HRH The KING

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Thats why i said "apart from HRH"... because you were probably a boring nerd! :lol: :lol: (JK)

 

When i was twelve, i hung out with normal kids... And, yes, as kids like to have fun and don't know the consequences of what's going to happen...

Edited July 20, 2005 by LordOfTheBorg

[HRH The KING 0]

Thats why i said "apart from HRH"... because you were probably a boring nerd!  (JK)

 

Maybe, but the advantage is that I have never been crushed by a fast moving vehicle.

 

When i was twelve, i hung out with normal kids... And, yes, as kids like to have fun and don't know the consequences of what's going to happen...

 

I'm pretty sure 12 year old kids know that running in front of a moving car brings severe consequences.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Obviously, they didn't mean to run in front of the cars...

[HRH The KING 0]

Really?

 

What else did they think used roads other than fast moving vehicles?

 

Soft furry kittens?

[Ace 0]

Agreed. This is not a case of "kids being kids". This is a case of a kid not having proper discipline and supervision. A twelve yr old should know alot better than to shoot dangerous projectiles at moving cars. It's quite frankly an idiotic thing to do. He may be young, but I know of very few people that age who would consider that reasonable behavior. 9, maybe, but not 12.

 

In complete disagreement with Schram, I think everyone is to blame in some way. The kid for doing something he knew was wrong and dangerous, the parents for however they may have contributed (parents can't be there all the time but I have a hard time believing this was the first time he showed destructive tendencies), and the 22 yr old for letting his anger get the best of him.

 

The major fault lies with the driver. I realize he was very angry, as I would have been, and did not mean for this to happen, but he should have called the police rather than chase the kid with his car. That's far from reasonable behavior as well. I feel sorry for everyone involved, but the driver does deserve to be held accountable :lol: .

 

No matter who was at fault, this was a tragedy. I know the parents must be grieving very much.

 

LotB- Add me to that list. I hung out with normal kids and had fun, but I would never have even considered an idiotic stunt like this.

Edited July 20, 2005 by Ace

[Theunicornhunter 2]

The kids definitely deserved a trip to juvenile court - and if the driver and his rider had called the police rather than try to administer their own justice that's where the kids would be. You don't have the right to beat someone up even if they did do something wrong.

 

My nieces ex-husband was recently killed in a car accident - he did something wrong (rearended someone - I don't remember - he wasn't innocent) but the driver he hit didn't just call the police - he pursued at high speed which led to the accident and then waited at the scene (where he was arrested). Two people were dead because of the driver -if he had just reported it Don would have been arrested - maybe lost his license but two families wouldn't be without their loved ones.

 

The kid in the story ran because he was afraid. Who wouldn't run from an angry stranger chasing them?

[HRH The KING 0]

The kid in the story ran because he was afraid. Who wouldn't run from an angry stranger chasing them?

 

Oh dear.

 

Poor little juvenile delinquent. :lol: :lol:

 

The guy wouldn't have been chasing him if the little delinquent didn't fire a rocket at his car.

Edited August 25, 2005 by mj

[Ace 0]

The kid in the story ran because he was afraid. Who wouldn't run from an angry stranger chasing them?

 

Oh dear.

 

Poor little juvenile delinquent. :lol: :lol:

 

The guy wouldn't have been chasing him if the little delinquent didn't fire a rocket at his car.

341811[/snapback]

 

That doesn't excuse the driver from his share of the responsibility.

[HRH The KING 0]

What responsibilty?

 

He got out of his car to see who had fired a bottle rocket at him?

 

And the kid thought "Uh oh, I've finally provoked someone, which was exactly what I was trying to do"

 

The kid was to blame.

 

No one else.

[Ace 0]

What responsibilty?

 

He got out of his car to see who had fired a bottle rocket at him?

 

And the kid thought "Uh oh, I've finally provoked someone, which was exactly what I was trying to do"

 

The kid was to blame.

 

No one else.

341819[/snapback]

 

The guy didn't just "get out of his car to see who had fired a bottle rocket at him."

 

 

One of the cars that the boys fired a bottle rocket at stopped in the intersection and the passenger, 22-year-old Tyrone Sherrod of Tacoma, got out and grabbed one of the boys, Garnet Wilis II.

 

The second boy ran and Trooper Johnny Alexander said that's when the driver of the car, identified as 22-year-old Mario Haley, began chasing Garnet with the vehicle before jumping out to chase him on foot.

 

I understand their reactions, but chasing the other boy down with a car was a bit much. They already had the first kid. At that point, they should have called the police (assuming they should even have gotten out in the first place). Finding out who the second kid (the one who was killed) was would've been no trouble with the first in custody.

 

I'll emphasize, though, that I don't think the drivers should suffer stiff penalties. Their reactions were understandable even if the situation ended horribly.

Edited July 20, 2005 by Ace

[HRH The KING 0]

OK, so he chased them.

 

Big deal.

 

If they weren't acting like a group of hooligans, he wouldn't have reacted like that.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

The kid in the story ran because he was afraid. Who wouldn't run from an angry stranger chasing them?

 

Oh dear.

 

Poor little juvenile delinquent. :lol: :lol:

 

The guy wouldn't have been chasing him if the little SOB didn't fire a rocket at his car.

341811[/snapback]

Provocation does not "excuse" bad acts.

[HRH The KING 0]

Bad acts?

 

Why what did the guy do?

 

He didn't touch those kids.

 

He didn't kill anyone.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Bad acts?

 

Why what did the guy do?

 

He didn't touch those kids.

 

He didn't kill anyone.

341835[/snapback]

 

The article I read said the kid showed signs of having been beaten.

 

Assault doesn't require physical contact.

 

He endangered the child's life by chasing him into traffic.

[HRH The KING 0]

He endangered the child's life by chasing him into traffic.

 

If the kid was too stupid not to know that running into traffic is a bad idea, then that's his problem, or to be precise it "was" his problem.

[Madame Butterfly 0]

As someone who works with children on a daily basis, I can absolutely say that unless this child had issues that weren't discussed, this was the child's fault.

 

A 6 year old knows better than to play in the street, a 12 year old is in middle school and should know the rules of the road.

 

The parents may be neglegent, but did they tell him to go into the street?

 

Most likely they felt confident the child knew the rules associated with roads.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

To everyone, if someone twice your size was chasing you with the intent to do you serious bodily harm - if not death - are you really going to stand there and rationally analyze all your options? More likely you'll run in total fear and panic - adults also run into traffic when they are trying to escape deadly pursuit.

 

The kid belonged in juvenile hall - not the morgue.

 

This is really the same argument that's being offered in another thread - that people aren't responsible for their own behavior - the kid ticked the driver off so the driver "had" to chase him down.

[Kor37 9]

This is the parents fault. They are guilty of bad parenting simply from the fact that they allow their 12 year old child to be out playing at MIDNIGHT with his buddies. Completely irresponsible.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

It's not the kids fault, he was just doing what all kids do! Playing around with his friend, making a little trouble... I bet there is no person here (apart from maybe HRH...) that can say truthfully that he/she didn't make trouble as a kid. Also, the parent's can not be held responsible, because they probably just let the kid go play with friends... you can't control what your kids do at their friends houses, unless your a really, really bad control freak.

341751[/snapback]

 

I must concur. [stand by for Jim sounding about 50 years older than he really is]. When I was but a young lad, I did on many an occasion rouse the rabble so to speak. Like many persons who happen to be lacking of age and experience, I did decieve my own parents on occasions to hide the fact that I was, indeed, doing things that I aught not do. Parents, while accountable for their children's actions, Cannot be present 24/7/365 for the entirity of their youth. Parents have to work, parents have to sleep. there are many an instance when a parent is unavailable to supervise their children, and the children will take advantage of this. [end Jim sounding too old for his years] Now, as for the gentlemen in the Car, I certainly would have done what he did. having a projectile directed at your vehicle is quite an unpleasant experience. that said, it is unfortunate that the kid in question chose to make his escape into traffic. it was a big gamble. and luck appearently wasn't on his side. The way I see it, either none are to blame, or they should share the blame equally.

[HRH The KING 0]

To everyone, if someone twice your size was chasing you with the intent to do you serious bodily harm - if not death - are you really going to stand there and rationally analyze all your options?

 

No, because a normal person wouldn't have been firing rockets at the guys car in the first place. If you carry out an act which is obviously intended to either harm other people or provoke an angry response from them, then you can't be surprised when they actually take the bait. If the kid was cowardly enough to do such a reckless and dangerous thing such as shooting bottle rockets at moving traffic, and then run in terror when someone takes exception to it, then so be it. They got what they deserved. If firing those rockets had caused someone to lose control of their vehicle and crash, would you be so sympathetic to the kid? I think not.

 

More likely you'll run in total fear and panic - adults also run into traffic when they are trying to escape deadly pursuit.

 

Don't play with fire and you won't get burned. High speed traffic, bottle rockets

and a dumb twelve year old don't mix.

 

The kid belonged in juvenile hall - not the morgue.

 

That's the kid's fault. No one elses.

 

This is really the same argument that's being offered in another thread - that people aren't responsible for their own behavior - the kid ticked the driver off so the driver "had" to chase him down.

 

And what about the behaviour of the kid? Don't you think it was very dangerous of him to fire things at moving vehicles? Haven't you seen the news stories about kids throwing bricks from the top of bridges on motorways? Don't you know how dangerous doing stupid crap like that can be? I have absolutely no sympathy for the little idiot who killed HIMSELF by acting so stupidly.

[LordOfTheBorg 1]

Woah, king... let's not say things we can't take back... The kid deserved it? No, noone deserves death, especially a 12 year old... Also, let's not insult the kid... We don't know, maybe he was a smart kid, who made dumb choices? And, again, it's the kid fault that he is in a morgue? No. Yes, it was stupid for him to be doing that... we don't know, maybe he was high or drunk... Yah, he was 12 but I've heard of and know kids in my town that do drugs... and they're 12/13/14... So, dont say it couldnt happen... But, still, King, you were a tad harsh in that last post...

Edited July 20, 2005 by LordOfTheBorg

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

Woah, king... let's not say things we can't take back... The kid deserved it? No, noone deserves death, especially a 12 year old... Also, let's not insult the kid...

 

I take nothing back. I never have and never will. I've seen this kind of crap before. Kids throwing bricks at cars. Kids placing obstructions on railway tracks, and now kids firing bottle rockets at moving traffic. A normal twelve year old playing soccer with his mates in the local park doesn't deserve death. This particular twelve year old brought death upon himself.

 

We don't know, maybe he was a smart kid, who made dumb choices?

 

Sorry, but when I was twelve even I knew that I should stay away from fast moving traffic and roads. If he made a dumb choice then so be it. He faced the consequences of it. The lesson for other kids? Don't be as stupid as the "Bottle Rocket Kid", which I'm sure will be a story on Snopes before long.

 

And, again, it's the kid fault that he is in a morgue? No. Yes, it was stupid for him to be doing that... we don't know, maybe he was high or drunk...

 

I couldn't care less whether he was high or drunk. Again if he was, then that's his fault.

 

Yah, he was 12 but I've heard of and know kids in my town that do drugs... and they're 12/13/14... So, dont say it couldnt happen...

 

Those kids are also stupid. They may have to face the consequences of their actions too.

 

But, still, King, you were a tad harsh in that last post...

 

Trust me dude, that was mild for me.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Actually, King, I said in my first post - that the kid deserved juvenile court - there is no question (nor ever has been) that his behavior was wrong.

 

The point is - other people's bad behavior isn't an excuse to also engage in bad behavior. A child is dead - a mistake shouldn't be a death sentence. The guy had no business or right to chase him - he could report him, testify against him etc.

[HRH The KING 0]

Actually, King, I said in my first post - that the kid deserved juvenile court - there is no question (nor ever has been) that his behavior was wrong.

 

Yes if he was caught by the police then he would have been taken to juvenile court.

 

Unfortunately, he ran in front of a moving vehicle so it's his fault.

 

The point is - other people's bad behavior isn't an excuse to also engage in bad behavior. A child is dead - a mistake shouldn't be a death sentence. The guy had no business or right to chase him - he could report him, testify against him etc.

 

Sorry, I just don't buy that. The guy in the car didn't touch him. The kid ran, he caused his own death.

 

As for the mistake of running in front of traffic. The kid shouldn't have been so surprised by this, since he was firing projectiles at the very same traffic mere moments before.