New Freedom Tower Design Unveiled.

[HRH The KING 0]

Lastly, I am really tired of Americans whining about 9/11. OK, so we lost 3,000 people. So what? Iraq has most more then seven times that number since we arrived under false pretences (no WMD's anywhere) and no one seems to give a damn about them...and Americans wonder why they are so hated around the world.

 

Most of the people in Iraq are being killed by terrorists.

 

Obviously people care about that. The attacks are covered heavily by news organisations.

 

Every few days there is another bombing caused by these terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraqis from living normal lives.

 

Americans and other people around the world have every right to whine about 9-11.

 

3,000 completely innocent people were murdered by morons with the same mindset as those killing innocents in Iraq.

 

The whole situation in Iraq was not about going in there and looking for WMD's.

 

The situation was created by Saddam Hussein's complete and utter failure to comply with the United Nations regarding the verification of his WMD's which he did have.

 

Hatred of America and Americans around the world is usually motivated by jealousy.

Edited July 18, 2005 by HRH The KING

[Validus 0]

Lastly, I am really tired of Americans whining about 9/11. OK, so we lost 3,000 people. So what? Iraq has most more then seven times that number since we arrived under false pretences (no WMD's anywhere) and no one seems to give a damn about them...and Americans wonder why they are so hated around the world.

 

Most of the people in Iraq are being killed by terrorists.

 

Obviously people care about that. The attacks are covered heavily by news organisations.

 

Every few days there is another bombing caused by these terrorists who are trying to prevent Iraqis from living normal lives.

 

Americans and other people around the world have every right to whine about 9-11.

 

3,000 completely innocent people were murdered by morons with the same mindset as those killing innocents in Iraq.

 

The whole situation in Iraq was not about going in there and looking for WMD's.

 

The situation was created by Saddam Hussein's complete and utter failure to comply with the United Nations regarding the verification of his WMD's which he did have.

 

Hatred of America and Americans around the world is usually motivated by jealousy.

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Not at all. Having myself been to many foreign countries and also having lived in one for years (Scotland) I can honestly tell you that hatred of the United States has nothing to do with feelings of jealousy.

 

It has everything to do with the very clear perception that America fancies itself the New Roman Empire. George Bush tricked us into backing a bogus war with Iraq for reasons that have proven to be totally false, and the body count in Iraq is being caused mostly by American weapons in the hands of American soldiers.

 

Certainly no one in Iraq is weeping for Saddam being deposed, but it seems evident that we have simply replaced the tyrrany of one man with our own. We are preceived as invaders because that is what we are.

 

Most of the people in Iraq are being killed by terrorists? That might be true on FOX News...but if you want reliable news I suggest PBS or the Washington Post.

 

I would also remind you that America has proven time and again that it doesn't realy care about what people in other countries do to one another (as was proved when we did nothing in either Rwanda or Tibet).

 

Since there are no WMD in Iraq and since Saddam has been deposed we should leave....we should have left last year, instead- Bush has turned the Middle-east into yet another Vietnam, and it has already cost us more then $200 billion dollars...so much that social security is threatened by Bush's recklessness.

 

The best way for us to fight terrorism is for us to not engage in it ourselves.

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

Not at all. Having myself been to many foreign countries and also having lived in one for years (Scotland) I can honestly tell you that hatred of the United States has nothing to do with feelings of jealousy.

 

Much of it is indeed jealousy over America's success and power.

 

Some of it is based on ideology. A hatred of it's capitalist system.

 

The rest is simply the usual suspects of old style socialists and communists.

 

It has everything to do with the very clear perception that America fancies itself the New Roman Empire. George Bush tricked us into backing a bogus war with Iraq for reasons that have proven to be totally false, and the body count in Iraq is being caused mostly by American weapons in the hands of American soldiers.

 

No the body count in Iraq is caused by routine terrorist attacks from foreigners who have come to Iraq to wage their radical ideological war. Extreme Islamicists killing civilians. The reason for going to war was to remove Saddam Hussein. That has been done. America does not fancy itself as any empire. It has conquered no land to rule.

 

Certainly no one in Iraq is weeping for Saddam being deposed, but it seems evident that we have simply replaced the tyrrany of one man with our own. We are preceived as invaders because that is what we are.

 

We are not invaders. We simply have to remain in Iraq until the situation can be controlled. The US/UK forces will reduce their numbers within the next year or so. The people of Iraq right now are under the greatest threat from terrorists, not Coalition forces. There is no tyranny from us over them. Iraq has just emerged from years of neglect and misrule. It will take time for it to recover.

 

Most of the people in Iraq are being killed by terrorists? That might be true on FOX News...but if you want reliable news I suggest PBS or the Washington Post.

 

You see the pictures on the news and then see the group responsible admitting what they have done and it becomes clear who is killing who. Whichever news source it may be.

 

I would also remind you that America has proven time and again that it doesn't realy care about what people in other countries do to one another (as was proved when we did nothing in either Rwanda or Tibet).

 

And if it did, then it would be accused of trying to police the world or being imperiaist.

 

Since there are no WMD in Iraq and since Saddam has been deposed we should leave....we should have left last year, instead- Bush has turned the Middle-east into yet another Vietnam, and it has already cost us more then $200 billion dollars...so much that social security is threatened by Bush's recklessness.

 

We will leave when the situation is more secure and Iraqi domestic forces are ready to assume control. Of course, that would happen sooner if terrorists stopped killing Iraqis who are actually trying to adminstrate their own country.

 

The best way for us to fight terrorism is for us to not engage in it ourselves.

 

We aren't. We are not sending suicide bombers to kill others. Nor planting car bombs, nor flying planes into buildings.

[Validus 0]

-Just because we are not using car bombs or some such tactic hardly makes us morally superior. The British once accused the American Colonists of being terrorists because we would not engage their armies out in the open but instead picked them off from secured positions.

 

-We use car bombs too, except they don't have wheels or drivers -we call them "smart" bombs...and the result is still the same.

 

-Old style blatant conquest is not the name of the game anymore. No, we won't put up our flag and tell the Iraqis to learn English and use American currency. That won't work. The Romans knew that and simply allowed nations udner their control to keep their culture and rulers...but they were still ultimately answerable to Rome.

 

That's how we do it.

 

Sure, we'll install some puppet pinhead and tell everyone he was "democratically" elected by the Iraqi people, but the second he does something that goes against the wishes of the Pentagon & the Oval Office...we'll have to back, depose the Iraqi government all over again (after we come up with another lie...we're pretty good at that).

 

This is nothing new. Our involvement in Vietnam was rooted in lies and when we toppled the democratically elected President of Chile we did so under a thin veil of lies.

 

I'm surprised that you, living in Britain, can't see that.

Edited July 18, 2005 by Validus

[HRH The KING 0]

Click For Spoiler

-Just because we are not using car bombs or some such tactic hardly makes us morally superior. The British once accused the American Colonists of being terrorists because we would not engage their armies out in the open but instead picked them off from secured positions.

 

The colonists were fighting for independence. I wouldn't class them as terrorists. Fighting against oppressive tyranny and intentionally targeting civilians for death are two entirely different things. We have every right to claim moral superiority.

 

-We use car bombs too, except they don't have wheels or drivers -we call them "smart" bombs...and the result is still the same.

 

Again, they are not targeted at civilians. Occasionally, civilians are killed in combat areas during war. Unfortunate, but a reality of war.

 

-Old style blatant conquest is not the name of the game anymore. No, we won't put up our flag and tell the Iraqis to learn English and use American currency. That won't work. The Romans knew that and simply allowed nations udner their control to keep their culture and rulers...but they were still ultimately answerable to Rome.

 

The Iraqi's will be answerable to themselves. They will certainly maintain links with America and the West in general though. It still remains to be seen how Iraq will progress, but strong free connections to the rest of the world will be its way forward IMO.

 

Sure, we'll install some puppet pinhead and tell everyone he was "democratically" elected by the Iraqi people, but the second he does something that goes against the wishes of the Pentagon & the Oval Office...we'll have to back, depose the Iraqi government all over again (after we come up with another lie...we're pretty good at that).

 

If he starts threatening other countries and starting trouble in the region then yes he'll be a problem and will have to be dealt with.

 

This is nothing new. Our involvement in Vietnam was rooted in lies and when we toppled the democratically elected President of Chile we did so under a thin veil of lies.

 

Vietnam was certainly a foolish war. I wouldn't have supported that at all. As a matter of fact, we didn't.

 

I'm surprised that you, living in Britain, can't see that.

 

We've seen what terrorism can do. Few things surprise us.

Edited July 18, 2005 by HRH The KING

[Kor37 9]

Gee....I hate the fact that you live in a country that you hate so much. Perhaps you should find a country more to your liking............

[HRH The KING 0]

Back to the topic, I will admit that the World Trade Centre towers were indeed butt ugly.

[Tina 0]

And you are not a New yorker so your opinion of them is pointless

[HRH The KING 0]

Who cares whether I'm an New Yorker or not?

 

I didn't like the design of the original towers.

 

IMO, they were very ugly.

[Tina 0]

Your opinions are usualy tactless and absurd anyway. Could you do me a favor keep them to yourself

 

You didnt pass by / work/ see them every day. Its not your place to like them or not.As it is not my place to comment about Big Ben.

[Validus 0]

You'll forgive me for saying this, but frankly I don't think your opinions are very well informed. You speak more from bias then from fact, and I cannot say that your bias is very convincing...especially to those of us who have studied the situation, who have served in the military, and who have been to the middle-east.

[HRH The KING 0]

Your opinions are usualy tactless and absurd anyway. Could you do me a favor keep them to yourself

 

No.

 

If you don't like reading the opinions of others, you can leave.

 

Keeping opinions to yourself kind of defeats the purpose of joining a message board.

 

You didnt pass by / work/ see them every day. Its not your place to like them or not.As it is not my place to comment about Big Ben.

 

Obviously I didn't pass them every day, since my journeys rarely involve a commute across the Atlantic Ocean and Lower Manhattan.

 

As for Big Ben, I couldn't care less what you wish to say about it.

 

You'll forgive me for saying this, but frankly I don't think your opinions are very well informed. You speak more from bias then from fact, and I cannot say that your bias is very convincing...especially to those of us who have studied the situation, who have served in the military, and who have been to the middle-east.

 

And your claim that America is the New Roman Empire is based on fact?

 

Or is that an opinion of yours?

 

Your bias doesn't convince me either.

 

But I'll forgive you anyway.

Edited July 18, 2005 by HRH The KING

[Validus 0]

And you are not a New yorker so your opinion of them is pointless

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That's just a silly position to take, Tinadoll. By that logic I guess you can't have an opinion on the Golden Gate Bridge because you're "lost in yonkers" and therefore get no say....right? :(

 

Let's not be purile.

[Tina 0]

I don't comment on the Golden gate bridge- Its part of SF landscape

 

On the other hand as a NYer. I have to deal with the skyline. So if i yell and scream about the new stupid Freedom tower its my problem

 

The Towers were part of the NY skyline for years. If you think they are ugly or not- I could care less. They were a part of the city that i loved.

 

 

BTW Yonkers in in Weschester County upstate

 

You might have said:" Lost in Brooklyn"

 

Thats more accurate *finds her map and pokes around*

[HRH The KING 0]

Whether you care about my opinion about the twin towers is not my concern.

 

But I still have every right to express it.

 

As does everyone else who isn't a New York City resident.

[Tina 0]

*click* Have a nice day

 

- Anyway Its a new york thing.. Don't like it

 

Fuggetaboutit

[HRH The KING 0]

Fuggetaboutit

 

Wow!!!

 

It's Janice Soprano!!!

[Validus 0]

I don't comment on the Golden gate bridge- Its part of SF landscape

 

On the other hand as a NYer. I have to deal with the skyline.

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Oh puh-lease...you talk about the skyline of NY as if it was your own private property. Get real, please. You don't have to "deal" with it anymore then Tibetans have to "deal" with Mount Everest. I sincerely doubt that your existance is predicated on the state of a couple of buildings that have now been gone for years.

 

A healthy dose of perspective can do wonders for narcissism and other ailements.

 

Try it, it won't hurt. :msn-wink: :msn-wink: :msn-wink:

Edited July 18, 2005 by Validus

[Tina 0]

Get real, please. You don't have to "deal" with it anymore then Tibetans have to "deal" with Mount Everest. I sincerely doubt that your existance is predicated on the state of a couple of buildings that have now been gone for years.

 

A healthy dose of perspective can do wonders for narcissism and other ailements.

 

 

Thats what thats YOUR opinion. Because you neither know me nor do you know my positions or my political ideas.And You speak of this narcissism as a bad thing.

 

But My opinion remains the same.

Edited July 18, 2005 by ddillard

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

Personally I liked the Twin Towers, OK they were fairly straightforward in outward design but the actual structure in order to create such a high building was groundbreaking for the time.

 

If I remember correctly wasn't there some a possibility of building a tower that was designed in the 1930s and had a 30s modernism feel to it. I quite liked that design personally but the new one looks fine in my opinion.

[Tina 0]

I think it was supposed to be cubist or some kind of post modern style

 

But i think the 30's is right TM

[HRH The KING 0]

I like the Petronas Towers in Malaysia.

 

Very beautiful.

[Validus 0]

Gee....I hate the fact that you live in a country that you hate so much. Perhaps you should find a country more to your liking............

341026[/snapback]

 

I love my country very much. I served in the military on the battleship USS IOWA(BB-61) as a gunnersmate if you doubt that.

 

What I hate is that we are under the tyranny of a reckless Presidency which is wasting our soldiers and our resources in the current mess in the middle-east which we should not have gotten involved it.

 

I would gently remind you that part of being an American is having the right (and the obligation) to be critical when our elected officials* keep screwing up time and time again.

 

*Of course, George W. Bush was not elected...which only proves how feeble democracy really is in this country. :(

Edited July 18, 2005 by Validus

[Data 0]

:devil: :devil:

 

I am sorry. But this thread is stiking a funny bone.

[Tina 0]

Actually Now its Pointless

 

We are drifting from the topic

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

I think it was supposed to be cubist or some kind of post modern style

 

But i think the 30's is right TM

341076[/snapback]

Yeah I saw it on a television show about the proposals and took a liking to it. I really like that style of building, only problem with it if I remember correctly was that it wasn't very tall and it perhaps did not look striking enough to send the message people are trying to convey after 9/11.

[Tina 0]

The new freedom tower is far less striking than the original towers. Its smaller and i belive they are having issues with the security aspect of it