Star Trek & Human Nature

[Theunicornhunter 2]

I watched First Contact yesterday - there's a line where Picard explains that when people realized they weren't alone in the Universe they changed their whole outlook on things and within fifty years had eliminated poverty, war, etc etc.

 

Well, of course the Enterprise version of Earth development is a little different (and IMO more realistic) in that people didn't immediately change. In fact, TOS showed that human nature didn't completely change - remember Harcourt Fenton Mudd and his desire to "gain a buck" or the trader selling tribbles etc.

 

My question is: Is there any evidence at all in human history that human nature has changed since the first human sat in front of a camp fire? There have always been selfless and good people and there have always been people who were motivated by a desire for power and wealth. There may actually be more of the former but the latter always win.

 

So why the assumption that human nature can or will change - for that matter what is "human nature"? Why are we who we are? To suggest as Star Trek does that we can wilfully change our nature because of external events suggests our nature is not genetically determined - so "evolution" would not apply. So what does?

 

Your thoughts.

[ARMS 0]

Thinking like this drove me mad...

 

We can change our behaviour, but our desires tend to stick, even when we suppress them, we long to do them, and the more you try not to do certain things, the more tempting they are.

 

It kinda makes sense of the more logical TNG, as apossed the constant fighting on TOS. Over time certain behaviours will be elliminated in most by ridding example, and increasing awareness, but there are always mental problems in some. Not a major problem in the 24th century

[BKY1701 0]

Not everyone was perfect in TNG/DS9/VOY; many were greedy, corrupt, violent and racist.

 

In my opinion, knowing they were up against something other then themselves would bring humans together for the most part, and from that unity more would come such as the end poverty and clearly war.

 

Not everyone changes even when their ways are archaic in comparison; don’t judge the human race off some capitalists.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Not everyone was perfect in TNG/DS9/VOY; many were greedy, corrupt, violent and racist.

 

In my opinion, knowing they were up against something other then themselves would bring humans together for the most part, and from that unity more would come such as the end poverty and clearly war.

 

Not everyone changes even when their ways are archaic in comparison; don’t judge the human race off some capitalists.

330568[/snapback]

 

Well said.

 

There certainly were a number of guest and recurring characters in Trek that showed many of today's not so great human qualities.

 

I believe that poverty and greed go hand in hand as do helplessness and ruthlessness. Eliminate one, does the other disappear?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

In my opinion, knowing they were up against something other then themselves would bring humans together for the most part, and from that unity more would come such as the end poverty and clearly war.

 

 

My point was there is no evidence to suggest humans would act that way. The possibility of alien encounters would have some people looking for a way to profit at someone else's expense just like anything else does now. People would be racing to get the first Vulcan/Human contract.

 

Nor, do I understand why knowing there are aliens would bring people together. Nor do I see any connection between visiting aliens and eliminating poverty. You have to understand why their is poverty - part of it - particularly in third world countries is a result of people in power exercising dominion over resources. Would visiting aliens somehow balance the power structure. Another cause of poverty is people's own choices - would visiting aliens cause everyone to give up their vices? Would it make people honest or all of a sudden instill a work ethic where it didn't previously exist.

[Bethlehem 7]

I for one do not want to change I am happy being a self serving human. Sorry I guess I am just a little flawed

[Takara_Soong 4]

My point was there is no evidence to suggest humans would act that way.  The possibility of alien encounters would have some people looking for a way to profit at someone else's expense just like anything else does now.  People would be racing to get the first Vulcan/Human contract.

 

Nor, do I understand why knowing there are aliens would bring people together.  Nor do I see any connection between visiting aliens and eliminating poverty.  You have to understand why their is poverty - part of it - particularly in third world countries is a result of people in power exercising dominion over resources.  Would visiting aliens somehow balance the power structure.  Another cause of poverty is people's own choices - would visiting aliens cause everyone to give up their vices?  Would it make people honest or all of a sudden instill a work ethic where it didn't previously exist.

330693[/snapback]

 

It didn't happen overnight. In ST: FC, Deanna says that poverty, disease and war were eliminated within 50 years of first contact with the Vulcans. All of what you say may have been attempted and failed because the Vulcans wouldn't "play the game".

 

Maybe the Vulcans set conditions for relations such as an end to wars and sharing of resources. I can see where Vulcans would find the way things are done now - wars, hunger and curable/controllable disease running rampant in parts of the world while others have an abundance of everything - as being quite illogical.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

"Setting conditions" is a form of coercion or force - even if it succeeded in changing "behavior" it wouldn't change human nature. There would be those who bristled against alien intrusion - or the thought of aliens trying to take over control of their world.

 

I just don't think "human nature" is something that can be changed by external forces.

 

This is getting a bit off topic but in a way not really - regarding unequal access to resources - hard to say whether that is "logical" or not because you have to look at the reasons "why" this inequity exists. Even now people advocate "sharing resources" but this is often perceived by many people as "you do all the work and we send the fruits of you labors elsewhere". Such an ultimatum from alien "invaders" would probably cause immediate revolt. In Earth's history, most attempts at communism or other communal property experiments have usually met with disaster. Most communist states are rigid police states because they are forcing people to behave in ways contrary to human nature. However, I will concede that the Star Trek vision of the future could be possible if it were a "police state" where behavior was controlled by external forces.

[Takara_Soong 4]

It is possible too that WWIII showed humans that a need for real change was necessary or we weren't going to survive (I believe Riker said there were 600 million dead from the conflicts). Perhaps contact with Vulcans was one of many factors that occurred to make change stick.

 

There have always been selfless and good people and there have always been people who were motivated by a desire for power and wealth.  There may actually be more of the former but the latter always win.

330419[/snapback]

 

I believe, or at least want to believe, the numbers of the former vastly outnumber the latter. I also believe that events of the future will finally lead to the former finally winning.