Can secular actors "act" a spiritual role?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Here's a discussion quesiton for a Sunday afternoon - inspired in part by some reviews I've done of upcoming offerings from the tv world.

 

Ever so often Hollywood tries to portray religion but, IMO, they never do a very good job. One question I have is whether an actor can really portray something he/she doesn't understand - who only has stereotypes or personal observations on which to base his character?

 

I know a lot of actors will study for a role - but how do you study "faith" you either have it or you dont' - and if you dont' - you don't understand it.

[Angela 1]

I suppose they can seek to emmulate the faith of others, which would be acting. But i would rather have a person who has faith acting.

[ChiFire 0]

most actors actually play the character off set. i mean, they will practice the faith for months at a time. most even convert.

[Odie 0]

From what I have read actors spend a great deal studing for their next role. Sometimes for years.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

The point is - "faith" (as in belief) isn't something you can study for. Certainly you go through the motions of any particular faith's(as in denomination) practices but that is a different thing than actually believing. You can certainly learn the doctrine or memorize scripture - but that isn't faith.

[Takara_Soong 4]

If the script is good and the actor is good, the audience will believe it. Making people believe that the character believes it is what an actor does whether it's regarding religion, sexuality or whatever.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

If the script is good and the actor is good, the audience will believe it. Making people believe that the character believes it is what an actor does whether it's regarding religion, sexuality or whatever.

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Interesting example: Do you think a person who has never personally experienced physical intimacy could accurately portray such an experience on the screen? (admittedly, the probability of finding an actor without such experience is very, very low)

 

But I still don't think you've answered my question. How can an actor portray faith - if he/she doesn't understand what it is?

[ChiFire 0]

easliy. they take what they've learned over the years, apply them to what they've learned about faith and their own faith (if they have any), and only the trained eye can see that somethings are not right. we, however, do not have the trained eye, and so therefore cannot see the descrepancies. to us it looks as if the faith is portrayed correctly.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

easliy. they take what they've learned over the years, apply them to what they've learned about faith and their own faith (if they have any), and only the trained eye can see that somethings are not right. we, however, do not have the trained eye, and so therefore cannot see the descrepancies. to us it looks as if the faith is portrayed correctly.

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Not too easily - since so few do it well. Faith is not something that can be learned through observation. And it isn't the "eye" that needs convincing - anyone can repeat motions. A great number of the performances I have seen by an actor "pretending" to be religious have been extremely hollow. There were a couple of guest stars on "Touched by an Angel" that did okay - notice I said guest stars not the regular cast.

 

I've recently seen ads for something called Revelations on NBC - cringe. :lol:

[ChiFire 0]

wait- you're talkin' soap operas and sitcoms? i was talkin' more like big-screen movies, where there are big-time actors. yea, it may not be so easy, but there are many who do it well. most of portraying faith has to do with close observations, inferences, and application.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

wait- you're talkin' soap operas and sitcoms? i was talkin' more like big-screen movies, where there are big-time actors. yea, it may not be so easy, but there are many who do it well. most of portraying faith has to do with close observations, inferences, and application.

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I disagree with your definition of faith - it has nothing to do with physical actions. However, name three that have done it well?

[gul_nodrog 2]

wait- you're talkin' soap operas and sitcoms? i was talkin' more like big-screen movies, where there are big-time actors. yea, it may not be so easy, but there are many who do it well. most of portraying faith has to do with close observations, inferences, and application.

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I disagree with your definition of faith - it has nothing to do with physical actions. However, name three that have done it well?

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I am a Christian and I bought the performances of:

 

Michael Landon, both on Little House on the Prairie and again as Jonathan on Highway to Heaven. I'm not sure what religion he followed personally.

 

John Ritter as the pastor on The Waltons did just fine, as did every member of the cast, particularly Ellen Corby (Grandma) and Will Geer (Grandpa). Again, I don't know what Ritter's religion was.

 

Mel Gibson in "Signs" was just wonderful. I completely bought his portrayal of a minister who had lost faith and then regained it. Of course, I think we all know by now that Mel is a true believer!

[Spockstellaiter 0]

I can't really think of any examples, most of the christian films I've seen, the christians in the movies have been christians. Most christian directors of christian movies look for christians to play the part of christians in their movies. (gee, how many times can I saw christian in a paragraph?)

[Takara_Soong 4]

If the script is good and the actor is good, the audience will believe it. Making people believe that the character believes it is what an actor does whether it's regarding religion, sexuality or whatever.

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Interesting example: Do you think a person who has never personally experienced physical intimacy could accurately portray such an experience on the screen? (admittedly, the probability of finding an actor without such experience is very, very low)

 

But I still don't think you've answered my question. How can an actor portray faith - if he/she doesn't understand what it is?

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I don't think you need to understand something to be able to portray it. For example, does someone need to be or understand (if that's even possible) a serial killer to portray one - no.

 

To me, it's the script and the talent. If the script doesn't express the faith then I don't think the actor will be as successful portraying it. Acting is taking the words you're given and making people believe.

 

I am a Christian and I bought the performances of:

 

Michael Landon, both on Little House on the Prairie and again as Jonathan on Highway to Heaven.  I'm not sure what religion he followed personally.

 

John Ritter as the pastor on The Waltons did just fine, as did every member of the cast, particularly Ellen Corby (Grandma) and Will Geer (Grandpa).  Again, I don't know what Ritter's religion was.

 

Mel Gibson in "Signs" was just wonderful.  I completely bought his portrayal of a minister who had lost faith and then regained it.  Of course, I think we all know by now that Mel is a true believer!

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Michael Landon was Jewish BTW.

[ChiFire 0]

ok. let me put this straight and simple. if the audience buys it, it's portraying. fortuantely, a lot of people buy actors' performances. it does not matter whether they believe in the religion or not. it matters if the people watching it (us) think that it's believable.

 

i don't think you can prove me wrong unless you tell me that you had a personal experience where you believe no actor's performance.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

ok. let me put this straight and simple. if the audience buys it, it's portraying. fortuantely, a lot of people buy actors' performances. it does not matter whether they believe in the religion or not. it matters if the people watching it (us) think that it's believable.

 

i don't think you can prove me wrong unless you tell me that you had a personal experience where you believe no actor's performance.

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This isn't about being right or wrong (because there is no right or wrong in a discussion like this). However, if you believe there have been "many" actors that have "accurately" depicted faith then you should be able to name some. I might want to check them out.

 

Which raises the point - I guess I left out a word - I should have said portray "accurately"; because you're right - they can present the most mean spirited, innacurate depiction of religion possible and they are "portraying."

 

And that is part of what I see - a negative, often hateful depiction of religion. In fact, if Hollywood treated any other group like that they'd be under fire for intolerance - only goes to show that hate is okay if you hate the "right" people.

 

And Takara raises a good point, maybe it isn't that the actors can't act but that the writers are uninformed or biased. I'd be willing to bet that many people do "buy" the performances and believe it is accurate - which is all the more disturbing. Some of the writers may even themselves believe they are being accurate.

 

But that is getting off topic - I'm still not convinced an actor can accurately portray something they dont' understand. Otherwise why do so many actors do research on their characters to expand their knowledge.

 

Regarding examples:

Gul's examples are pretty old (sorry about that) so I can't really comment I do vaguely remember Ritter on the Waltons.

 

I tried to think of a couple of examples I had seen but almost all of them involved depiction of a historical figure and I'm not sure they portrayed the person's "faith" as much as the actions they took. I recently saw Joseph Fiennes in "Luther" which was a pretty good movie ; and Christopher Gorham did an okay job in "The Other Side of Heaven" but I can't think of an example of "faith" (maybe Paul Scofiled, A Man for All Seasons) man, that was a 1966 movie but a good one.

[ChiFire 0]

no. what i was trying to say, is that, if you buy their performance, then it is accurately portraying it. they have done their job, and you have bought their performance. it really simple.

 

i also know that there is no right or wrong in a discussion like this. this is a personal opinion, and i wish for you to see my side, yet you cannot.

 

i still am wondering why.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

no. what i was trying to say, is that, if you buy their performance, then it is accurately portraying it. they have done their job, and you have bought their performance. it really simple.

 

i also know that there is no right or wrong in a discussion like this. this is a personal opinion, and i wish for you to see my side, yet you cannot.

 

i still am wondering why.

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I understand but I have a different opinion. I believe you're saying that if the actor successfully convinces you he is the character as the character is written then he's given an accurate portryal. I disagree, he may have given a "successful" performance. You might even call that accurate in that it met expectations - but I don't. I believe accuracy lies in the intrinsic nature of the thing being portrayed. (And we've gotten off track mixing up religion and faith)

 

Example: if a character successfully portrayed "uncle Tom" as Stowe wrote him would we consider that an "accurate" performance? Accurate in that it matched the script - yes; accurate in that it was a accurate portrayal of a black slave? Not many people would agree.

 

As for performances I don't buy. Most recently Seventh Heaven and Joan of Arcadia (both of which I've seen to have seen but don't watch) I generally avoid movies about religion because they are so inaccurate.

[ChiFire 0]

wait. so in your WHOLE LIFE you have never believed what people portray about religion in a movie? what about the people who actually ARE that religion? do you believe their preformances, too? because if you don't, that would prove this whole discussion just plain wrong.

[Odie 0]

no. what i was trying to say, is that, if you buy their performance, then it is accurately portraying it. they have done their job, and you have bought their performance. it really simple.

 

i also know that there is no right or wrong in a discussion like this. this is a personal opinion, and i wish for you to see my side, yet you cannot.

 

i still am wondering why.

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I understand but I have a different opinion. I believe you're saying that if the actor successfully convinces you he is the character as the character is written then he's given an accurate portryal. I disagree, he may have given a "successful" performance. You might even call that accurate in that it met expectations - but I don't. I believe accuracy lies in the intrinsic nature of the thing being portrayed. (And we've gotten off track mixing up religion and faith)

 

Example: if a character successfully portrayed "uncle Tom" as Stowe wrote him would we consider that an "accurate" performance? Accurate in that it matched the script - yes; accurate in that it was a accurate portrayal of a black slave? Not many people would agree.

 

As for performances I don't buy. Most recently Seventh Heaven and Joan of Arcadia (both of which I've seen to have seen but don't watch) I generally avoid movies about religion because they are so inaccurate.

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Its not the actors fault if the script is not accurate.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

wait. so in your WHOLE LIFE you have never believed what people portray about religion in a movie? what about the people who actually ARE that religion? do you believe their preformances, too? because if you don't, that would prove this whole discussion just plain wrong.

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Wow, I'm sorry you're taking this so personal. I was attempting to have an abstract discussion. Perhaps its time to drop it.

 

But, basically, to answer your question I don't believe something which I know to be inaccurate. In fact I really don't consider anything I see on tv realistic in the sense it is factual- the closest is the original Law & Order. I love how they can base a plot on a really boring section of the legal code :blink:

 

The question was about faith - not religion btw.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I'm not sure if anyone can accurately portray faith so that all (or most) will accept the portrayal. In essence, the actor is portraying the faith of the character as he/she understands it to be. Faith is very personal and what is accurate for one could be widely inaccurate for others. In situations where you have to appeal to the masses, generalizations and stereotypes come into play which will make a performance less accurate for some viewers.

Edited April 15, 2005 by Takara_Soong

[ChiFire 0]

Wow, I'm sorry you're taking this so personal.  I was attempting to have an abstract discussion.  Perhaps its time to drop it. 

 

But, basically, to answer your question I don't believe something which I know to be inaccurate.  In fact I really don't consider anything I see on tv realistic in the sense it is factual- the closest is the original Law & Order.  I love how they can base a plot on a really boring section of the legal code :lol:

 

The question was about faith - not religion btw.

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hey, im not taking this personal. im just very into the topic :blink: sorry.

[mj 7]

I'm not trying to take this off-topic, but I see the issue very differently.

 

I believe God always has control over His Word, and will accomplish His purpose with it, whether the actors themselves are able to actually portray faith or not. If it has God's Word in it, then that Word will do exactly what He intends it to.

 

To me the issue is not any different from the issue of whether or not a person can 'get saved'

(using the pentecostal vernacular) under a fake preacher--a cheater, someone who is in it for the money. The answer is yes.

 

An octogenarian I knew more than a decade ago talked about her salvation experience. She had come to saving faith under the preaching of a man who, she was told, had backslid ( turned away from God) the very next day. She told the people who told her----Jesus had saved her, not that man. God knew that the man preaching to that woman was false....but God controls his Word and it reached the person it was intended for. At one point the apostle Paul says "whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached, and therein do I glory."

 

I know nothing about Max Von Sydow, who played Jesus in The Greatest Story Ever Told. But I was going through a period of terrible discouragement, and had just come into my parents' home. It was the end of the movie, and 'Christ' was ascending and giving last instructions to his disciples. The actor had his arms outstretched, and made a comment about not worrying and that today's troubles are enough. That sentiment is expressed again and again in the Bible ( for instance in Philippians) and that Word sent then lifted me out of my malaise. ( Every time I see that film, I remember how God used that one scene, but it does not affect me as it did then.)

 

I remember a scene from Ben Hur when Ben Hur walked away from an opportunity to hear Christ. His friend, and his servant stayed to hear Christ. Ben Hur walked away, because he was very bitter.

 

As he walks away in the distance, an actor playing Jesus comes into the foreground with his back to the camera. His head is turning, and he is watching Ben Hur walk away even as he was preparing to give a sermon to thousands gathered. When I noticed that scene for the first time

(I had seen Ben Hur before), I was feeling insignificant and invisible. I could not get that scene out of my mind, and later I saw a passage in the Bible about Sarah's servant, where she came to understand that God actually saw her.

 

I know nothing about the actor with his back to the camera whose head was turning to follow Ben Hur walking away. I just know God used it to begin to change a perspective I had.

 

I just believe God's purpose's are accomplished in the best and worst of what Hollywood does with His stuff!

[Theunicornhunter 2]

MJ, I agree that if we are honestly seeking truth we can find inspiration in many places and it doesn't necessarily have to even be in a religious setting.

 

But that really is a different topic. On the question of faith - Faith is the not the same thing as religion and IMO, whenever I have seen it portrayed on television or movies etc it has come across very poorly. I can't help but wonder if that is because most of the writers, actors, directors etc have no idea what faith is and rely on their stereotypes instead.

[ChiFire 0]

but what if they are that faith? and for another thing, what if they are that faith, believe exactly what the story/movie is, and yet you do not believe the performance?

 

have they portrayed it accurately?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

but what if they are that faith? and for another thing, what if they are that faith, believe exactly what the story/movie is, and yet you do not believe the performance?

 

have they portrayed it accurately?

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First,

this was the original question from my first post

 

can really portray something he/she doesn't understand - who only has stereotypes or personal observations on which to base his character?

 

Your question is attempting to attribute opinions to me which I have not stated.

 

And

I've tried to explain this before - I'm not talking a "faith" as in a synonym for religion. I am talking about faith which the Apostle Paul described as:

 

"the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen"

 

however,

Edited April 22, 2005 by TheUnicornHunter