Parallel Universes Discussion

[master_q 0]

Parallel Universes Discussion

 

No one can really say if they exist or do not. However, sometimes the reasoning of the physicist David Deutsch escapes me. I can fathom the possibilities, but I don’t think Deutsch’s logic or conjecture has great valor to it. I don’t completely discount the possibility that they exist, but in no way do I think Deutsch’s explanation of the experiment that he has used gives any evidence that they exist.

 

Let’s just say that we have an object that holds H2O. This box has on the far end something to block the H2O it also has two doors that can be open or close. The final thing that this experiment has is a wave detector that detects how intense the waves are. Now we drop the H2O in with one door open the results are that the more intense area is where the door is open. We open both doors (You might be thinking that the results would be split, but they are not). What happens here is that the waves cross cancels each other and increases in other areas also. Where is the more intensity? It’s on the other end in the middle of the 2 doors.

Now let’s take the same idea and apply it to electrons. When we shoot out electrons we only shoot out one at a time so that it reaches the detector. The same thing also happens when both doors are open the electrons cross cancel the same graph results as the waves. People thought that the results here would be divided like if we dropped marbles or something else, but it is not. {You can also use light (protons instead of electrons)}. David Deutsch believes the answer to the experiment is that the electrons/protons that are getting shot one at a time are interacting with other electrons/protons. Now you might be saying if there only is one shot at a time how could they be interacting with each other He thinks that they are interacting with || universes. However, that really all he says! That’s it. No more real deduction. (Ok maybe I was putting his ‘deduction’ in more of a general term, but it there really is not definite reasoning)

 

However, there is something that might explain what happened and throw this whole Deutsch idea out the window. If we look at the basic foundation of string theory we can expand on the idea of particles and waves.

 

Pretend we tried to pull two quarks apart. You might think that the more apart they are the less bond they will have, but that’s not the case. String Theory does not think of this the two quarks as force lines of a filed, but looks the “strings” directly.

 

The Hypothesis of Duality says that the string idea and the field lines are two different ways to look at the same thing! If this is true, then we look at something like Deutsch’s use of the famous experiment and his reasoning would be wrong.

 

It is my opinion that the hypothesis of duality is correct and that this idea takes away from Deutsch’s logic. (But that’s not to say that || universes don’t exist . . . they might, but the use of the experiment in question does not at all prove that they do)

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Let me see if I understand what you are saying. Deutsch deduces the presence of parallel universe(s) when electrons released singly react with the same disturbance pattern as water released through both doors at once?

 

My questions:

Do parallel universes only act on electrons? Why isn't the effect of the parallel universe observed on the water flow?

 

When you use the term "parallel universe" are you speaking of a "duplicate" world like the Sliders concept or something that exists only on an atomic level?

 

I didn't fully grasp the string theory discussion.

 

Even we non-physics people have discussions about parallel worlds. I don't believe they exist - not as science fiction presents them. My reasoning is that for a duplicate of us to exist -every ancestor that lived before us would have had to make the same decisions in mating on each world. Which also means no dying in infancy etc. I think it highly improbable unless the parallel world was an exact duplicate in every detail. Which they never are in SciFi.

 

But this is totally off topic if the answer to my second question is the theory only concerns atomic structure not living organisms.

[master_q 0]

Let me see if I understand what you are saying.  Deutsch deduces the presence of parallel universe(s) when electrons released singly react with the same disturbance pattern as water released through both doors at once?

 

My questions: 

Do parallel universes only act on electrons?  Why isn't the effect of the parallel universe observed on the water flow?

 

When you use the term "parallel universe" are you speaking of a "duplicate" world like the Sliders concept or something that exists only on an atomic level?

 

I didn't fully grasp the string theory discussion.

 

Even we non-physics people have discussions about parallel worlds.  I don't believe they exist - not as science fiction presents them.  My reasoning is that for a duplicate of us to exist -every ancestor that lived before us would have had to make the same decisions in mating on each world.  Which also means no dying in infancy etc.  I think it highly improbable unless the parallel world was an exact duplicate in every detail.  Which they never are in SciFi.

 

But this is totally off topic if the answer to my second question is the theory only concerns atomic structure not living organisms.

Well basically I’m just looking at the basics, but if the atomic scale (as you know) builds up to the larger scale. When I talk about QG you know I’m referring to how this small scale builds up to general relativity. The small scale makes up that of the large and so they are directly related. So it’s not just the subatomic world it’s the world in general - all scales.

 

Quantum Mechanics looks into things like probability. I’m not a person who completely thinks the uncertainty principal is true. I do think that it is true only to a degree. However, if you just look at this whole thing through Deutsch’s eyes then he might reason that probability is the reason || universes exist. I say this because in every || universe something else is happening because the event came out different then another universe. He thinks that every single probable thing does happen! Just that each one of those are in different || universes.

 

So if I flied a coin and it came out heads, then in another || universe it came out tales.

If I rolled the die and it came out two, then in another || universe it came out one, in another one it came out three, four, . . . . .

 

Assuming he is correct, then every single probable thing happens – it just happens in another || universe.

 

In one || universe the atom might be located at x, but in another y. And so on

 

 

Does that make a little bit of sense?

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Xeroc 0]

Master_Q, I know what you're talking about - the classic two-slot experiment. However, I don't believe that has anything to do with parallel universes. I believe that is easily expained with wave-particle duality. The electrons act as a wave before the reach the final detector and that is why the wave-interference pattern is created.

 

A more likely parallel universe theory is the theory of Quantum Realities. The theory of Quantum Realities says that when a chance event occurs all possibilites occur in separate parallel universes. For example if you flip a coin - in one universe it lands up heads, in the other tails. This also happens on a subatomic level.

[master_q 0]

Master_Q, I know what you're talking about - the classic two-slot experiment.  However, I don't believe that has anything to do with parallel universes.  I believe that is easily expained with wave-particle duality.  The electrons act as a wave before the reach the final detector and that is why the wave-interference pattern is created.

 

A more likely parallel universe theory is the theory of Quantum Realities.  The theory of Quantum Realities says that when a chance event occurs all possibilites occur in separate parallel universes.  For example if you flip a coin - in one universe it lands up heads, in the other tails.  This also happens on a subatomic level.

That’s the same thing (LOL)

 

Quantum realities or || one are the same basic thing.

 

I fully agree to the fact that the experiment can be explained by duality and that it does not connect into the idea of mutable realities. But make no mistake quantum realties and || ones are really the same thing

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Lollypop 0]

Physicist David Deutsch was the reason I mentioned Parallel universes in the time travel topc. He said if it was possible to travel back in time you would finish up in parallel universe because the time in the universe is already fixed.

[Capt.Vash 0]

hey all i believe in the hall i cal it coin theory where every decision makes new universes where that didnt happen like there is another universe thats almost exactly the same as this one cept i didnt read this post.... and another where i didnt post this reply or another where i didt delete the p i accidentally typed!

[ARMS 0]

A parell universe can get rid of time paradoxes such as going back in time to prevent an event, which may prevent the traveller going back.

[Yellow_Dragon 0]

There's a great little piece on parallel universes in Carl Sagan's book "Cosmos" (a great book by the way,as well as a great DVD/VHS series).Just before he passed away,he and Stephen Hawking were sort of jokingly "working on warp drive" as Hawking said in an old interview.Too bad,they didn't get further along.Maybe Hawking will carry on the "joke" project alone and become our "universe's" Zefram Cochrane?

[master_q 0]

There's a great little piece on parallel universes in Carl Sagan's book "Cosmos" (a great book by the way,as well as a great DVD/VHS series).Just before he passed away,he and Stephen Hawking were sort of jokingly "working on warp drive" as Hawking said in an old interview.Too bad,they didn't get further along.Maybe Hawking will carry on the "joke" project alone and become our "universe's" Zefram Cochrane?

Yeah, I read that.

 

When he made a guest appearance on TNG he took a tour of the sets. When he was in engineering he pointed to the warp drive and said; "I'm working that."

 

 

 

It's interesting stuff

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[SoCalTom 0]

One theory of parallel universes lies in black holes. Where does all of the matter go, once it enters a black hole? The theory is that it creates another universe. Unfortunately, we can only speculate, because we haven't been there or done that.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

That's interesting SoCalTom. I wonder if galaxies are what's on the "other side"?

 

Black holes here deposit matter into an alternate universe while black holes there deposit it into ours with the end result on both sides being visible galaxies. That's my theory at least. Where's my prize?

[SoCalTom 0]

That's interesting SoCalTom. I wonder if galaxies are what's on the "other side"?

 

Black holes here deposit matter into an alternate universe while black holes there deposit it into ours with the end result on both sides being visible galaxies. That's my theory at least. Where's my prize? :lol:

I think that it stands to reason that a black hole could empty into another universe. We have no idea of where this universe came from, other than the Big Bang theory. That sort of explains how this universe started. The particles of matter had to come from somewhere, and a black hole in another universe could have caused it. It's only a theory because we don't have any substantial evidence.

 

Chaos theory can't explain the creation of this universe. But it can come close to an explanation. We don't know where the matter goes once it falls into a black hole; but we can take a guess. And this guess is as good as any other. It is great that we can think this way; if we couldn't, we'd go nuts.

 

So, in answer to the original question about the existance of parallel universes, the answer can be yes. Our universe is supposed to be about 10 - 12 billion years old; so, you can see that some universes could be older than us and some much younger. Some great mind once said that space is infinite, while universes are not.

[master_q 0]

There are some problems with the ideas here, but they are generally correct when you ignore the specifies or the technicalities of it. If somehow I sent a object through a black hole (after the big miss of it getting crushed into the singularity) it could end up at the end of the hole which is called a white hole. The end of that black whole would theoretically be a region of space where energy (if its from starts, light, . . . .) explosively emerges. But even the idea of a white hole has shaken down and now is more considered an application. And then we can apply this logic to the idea of the existence of a wormholes . . . .

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[SoCalTom 0]

There are some problems with the ideas here, but they are generally correct when you ignore the specifies or the technicalities of it.

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

The theory behind black holes is that the gravitational forces from a singularity are so great that light can not escape. We know that light is made up of particles called photons. Since photons travel at 386,000 mph, and the speed is a known constant, the gravitational force of a black hole is so great that it increases the speed of photons preventing their escape. We can "see" the effects of a black hole on surrounding objects; but, we have yet to actually "see" a black hole.

 

Your comment about a white hole at the bottom of a black hole may be possible; however unlikely because of the immense gravitational forces surrounding it. The photons would have to overcome the gravitational forces of the black hole in order to make it out. And we know what happens in a black hole.

 

Another theory has a black hole spitting out "dark" matter from the other side. This would assume that a black hole forming singularity would be shaped similar to a donut with a hole in the middle. Matter being drawn into the black hole would increase in speed to the extent of traveling through the singularity to escape on the other side.

 

Then there's the old rule about objects in motion tend to stay in motion, and objects at rest tend to stay at rest. This would assume that objects slamming onto the surface of the singularity would expell an equal amount of matter on the other side of the singularity. Again assuming that the singularity is a solid sphere. This would assume that the gravitational forces of the singularity are not equal on opposite hemispheres. That doesn't appear to make sense, as the gravitational forces should be constant around the singularity.

 

Finally, in order to generate the gravitational forces of the singularity, the singularity must rotate. Could it's rotational speed be so great that it exceeds the speed of light? If this is the case, matter being drawn onto the surface of the singularity could travel to the equator and be flung off by the centrifical force. The matter would, then, be drawn back to the polar region only to be drawn back in again. This would assume that the singularity is acting like a perpetual motion machine, and those are impossible.

 

Personally, I'd like to think that a black hole is an opening to another universe. It's the only theory that comes close to making any sense. When you throw chaos theory into the equation, anything is possible.