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poldor

i miss voyager

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SMILE - pass it on!

 

Don't take life too seriously - you'll never get out alive

 

Ignorance killed the cat - curiosity got the rap...

 

"Don't take life too seriously - you'll never get out alive"

 

hmm....

 

isn't that a quote from Van Wilder? I think it is....

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Gotta admit, I didn't love the last 2 eps. But I did love the series & miss it. I'd love to see a movie w/cast members from Voyager, DS9 & TNG working together -- I just wonder if the cost would be prohibitive.

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This was one of my favorites, i admit i was born in 91, during TNG's run, but this has got to be favorite. I think Tom and B'Elanna were the best characters.

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Of course I would not mind seeing it on tv again, you bet. I watched it all, start to finish. Shocker-given my handle. But for me Seasons1-3 are my favorites...and for one reason in particular, which, from some of the old posts on one of these Voyager threads , i'll just not say, since some of the old comments were to me plain offending. Nuff said. Only goes to show, that being a Voyager fan doesn't make it all one happy, agreeing family..like trek in general. Too bad. I got mine, they have theirs, and all I ask is respect for mine...

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Thats all you can do dude, and hey a few comments, nothing, i have to deal with former marines at my school, mcjrotc all the way OORRAAGGHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MARINE CORPS!!!!!!!!

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FYI..I read somewhere-an article that was part of one advertised from another site, at Trekcore..that Bob Picardo may or may not be a part of a series this fall...

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I did still watch it after Kes left-but not because of Seven. I was still a Voyager fan...but, the show was not as good as it was, as when Kes as a part of it, IMO.

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I think that VOYAGER hit it's stride, while Kes was there, but was better when she left. I think the thing that mad eit better after she left was the P/T relationship, sorry i know alot say that, but thats what i think. I think that after Kes left they focused more on B'Elanna's character, and Tom's character. I mean you have to admit, before Kes left, both Tom and B'Elanna were kin of stale, after she left they got more time, and flushed there characters out, and in the end it WORKED. And to tell you the truth, i didn't like Seven, to skiny and to much of a shrug of the shoulder, meh, character. But over all i liked seasons 4-7 just a little better, but one of my favorite episodes is "Faces".

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Gotta agree with jameron4eva.... Kes was too much of a goody-goody for me to enjoy her character. Another Wesley Crusher, if you will. 7 of 9 was right sometimes, she was wrong sometimes, and it was funny to see her lessons in humanity. No pun intended, but 7 was a better developed character.

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But for me Seasons1-3 are my favorites...

Just the opposite for me. When it was in first run, the first couple of seasons turned me off to Voyager. Even now when I put the DVD's in I usually start with season 3 or 4. Same with TNG, I usually skip the first 2 seasons and start with season 3.

 

DS9, TOS and ENT gets the full run when I pop those in though.

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The key thing to remember is that you have to watch the WHOLE show to completly understand it. I don't like seasons 1-3 over 4-7, but i think they are essential to understanding some of the characters. Obviously not Tom and B'Elanna because that didn't happen till Kes left but, meh. And i think the only interesting thinbg abut Seven was the fact that she had to refind her humanity, but after about four to fiive eps, that even got old.

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I don't find Kes a "goody-goody", I find her a very unique and fascinating character.

 

She's nice, friendly and beautiful but also strong-willed, determined and brave. She has a way to solve problems not by using force but to simply move around them and attack them from another angle which we could see in episodes like "Jetrel" and "Resolutions". She's actually both a complement and contrast to more traditional action-characters like Janeway and Torres.

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But she was never wrong about anything, until that episode they brought her back and had her tear up the place. Her intuition was never incorrect, her motives always pure as driven snow, her temprament always gentle as a breeze, and for all that, she was still innocent as a lamb. To borrow from Churchill, she had all the virtues one would despise and none of the vices one could admire. Ne'er-do-wrongs are irritating, unrealistic, and bad television, imho.

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My opinion is exactly the opposite. What one views as realistic and bad for TV is based on what one wants to see. For me it is Kes's character.

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The key thing to remember is that you have to watch the WHOLE show to completly understand it. I don't like seasons 1-3 over 4-7, but i think they are essential to understanding some of the characters. Obviously not Tom and B'Elanna because that didn't happen till Kes left but, meh. And i think the only interesting thinbg abut Seven was the fact that she had to refind her humanity, but after about four to fiive eps, that even got old.

 

I've watched the whole season multiple times over the years. I'm at the point now though that I just skip the seasons that I don't like.

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Kes was indeed a good person!And I deeply like those qualities in her. Not everyone in the world has a problem withthe idea of a person, or people-and, to whatever extent, there are real people-who are very loving, and giving.Perhaps the Ocampa, through her, had an extra sense in degree of compassion,but, it's just those basic qualities-compassion, kindness, gentleness-that make this world, which can be hard, and cold, and bleak, a better place. Just because Kes does not conform to some real-world perceptions of what a person is, doesn't negate her viability, or worth and contributions...and , after all, she WAS an alien, albeit a very special one, as was Neelix, or others. They were created to in part be observers, and commenters on the human condition-and who greatly admired humanity-through Kathryn, Chakotay, and the rest, whom they loved as family, and they them in turn. Such was said for Seven to do, and be. Well, while we're all being so frank, I have never cared for her character, much as so many have-for those who do, of course, it's your right as a fan to do so, naturally. But I will not refrain from defending my favorite, either.It certainly seems, as I vaguely alluded to prior, that Kes has gotten her share of knocks from certain segments of fans...which does get old to keep reading-and even to the point of outright 'bashing'-by some-repeatedly,and fiercely, in the past.Which is why I kept my appreciation for the character, and the actress who played her, out of discussion. Yes, everyone has their right to opinion, and it's always a 'risk' to bring up any tpoic-as we all have different tastes-but, I daresay many, whomever you prefer, could get weary of hearing that kind of negativity about your favorite, so consider that, when a Kesfan comes to her 'defense'. And, at the end of ther day, I remain a fan of the character, whomever does, or does not like her. Fortunately, that's my right, and privelege.

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Fine. But, if, and when I feel I need to, I will defend the character...the same right, as others may have to criticize..so, fair warning. Post anything at all about Kes, and poof, sooner or later, here come the critiques...same old thing. It's why I kept the subject out, to avoid the annoyance. I have always tried to keep my dislikes to myself-or couch them more 'gently'. Maybe people should think a bit more about how others feel about the charcters they like, and how they'd feel if the shoe was on the other foot, when commenting....right. Too much to expect that , I guess. Oh, well..nothing new. Nuff said.

Edited by Voyager recruit

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JB, not to be insubordinate, but I would think discussing Kes would be considered on topic for this thread... I mean, it's a pretty broad and vague subject matter. We're discussing which parts of Voyager we miss, a show which Kes was a part of.

 

VR, I respect your right to your opinion. I just got sick of Kes episodes. I mean, you can be a caring, gentle, perceptive person and still be wrong once in awhile. At one point, I was expecting the Traveller to show up and invite her to come with him and learn from him on his journey as another protege had chosen.

 

Although, admittedly, she was also a bit too sunshine-y a personality for me.

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JB, not to be insubordinate, but I would think discussing Kes would be considered on topic for this thread... I mean, it's a pretty broad and vague subject matter. We're discussing which parts of Voyager we miss, a show which Kes was a part of.

I'll concede that. I just don't want this thread to be all about Kes.

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The key thing to remember is that you have to watch the WHOLE show to completly understand it. I don't like seasons 1-3 over 4-7, but i think they are essential to understanding some of the characters. Obviously not Tom and B'Elanna because that didn't happen till Kes left but, meh. And i think the only interesting thinbg abut Seven was the fact that she had to refind her humanity, but after about four to fiive eps, that even got old.

 

I've watched the whole season multiple times over the years. I'm at the point now though that I just skip the seasons that I don't like.

See thats what i'm saying, you have watched the show so much, you know the eps by heart. I am guilty of the same thing with DARK Angel, i have watched both seasons so much, that even after a year long DA hiatus, i automaticaly know what eps have what story lines in them, and believe me i rewatched them over christmas, and skipped two three discs because i knew what was on them, even the names.

 

Now, lets clear something up, i didn't say Kes was a "goody-goody6" i just said she was to much of wesly type character for me, the only real time she had to face a real personal delima was when Paris and Neelix fought. And just like you VR, i will have to come to Tom and B'Elanna's defense if anyone cracks on them, and if i missed the mark on the quoting, let me know, trying to remember, and thanks for the help vabeachguy,.

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Not wanting to just keep this rollling on, but, just bear with me a few here

; but, yes, and to be clear, I do respect your right to your own opinion....and I appreciate your previous words of conciliation, as it were. Thanks. But, if I may, it's just that I, and others, have run afoul of what was I would call then 'outright hostility' to Kes-in months past. It was hurtful, and offensive-and has given me all the more appreciation for respecting another's choice of character as a fave.I do really try to always respect who another likes, and what, and to not use a word, or words, that could be offending. But, the issue, if I can, is using 'labels' on someone a person likes, that to me feel ...derogatrory-to whatever extent. It would just be better, if we could all couch our lack of interest into an 'I don't care for' or 'I did not like', or 'Was not interested', without going to specific terms, that's all. And this would be a good rule of thumb, not just here..but all across the boards-such as with the film, as I've seen in some places, not really here-that have gotten outlandishly vicious between the 'camps'...regardless of 'side'. I know it's a big, broad tent we live under..but a little bit of tact in regards to this sort of thingcould go a long way. Maybe it's harder for other people, sometimes, to see it that way..but it can come out so.Thanks for your indulgence, all. VR.

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Not wanting to just keep this rollling on, but, just bear with me a few here

; but, yes, and to be clear, I do respect your right to your own opinion....and I appreciate your previous words of conciliation, as it were. Thanks. But, if I may, it's just that I, and others, have run afoul of what was I would call then 'outright hostility' to Kes-in months past. It was hurtful, and offensive-and has given me all the more appreciation for respecting another's choice of character as a fave.I do really try to always respect who another likes, and what, and to not use a word, or words, that could be offending. But, the issue, if I can, is using 'labels' on someone a person likes, that to me feel ...derogatrory-to whatever extent. It would just be better, if we could all couch our lack of interest into an 'I don't care for' or 'I did not like', or 'Was not interested', without going to specific terms, that's all. And this would be a good rule of thumb, not just here..but all across the boards-such as with the film, as I've seen in some places, not really here-that have gotten outlandishly vicious between the 'camps'...regardless of 'side'. I know it's a big, broad tent we live under..but a little bit of tact in regards to this sort of thingcould go a long way. Maybe it's harder for other people, sometimes, to see it that way..but it can come out so.Thanks for your indulgence, all. VR.

Thanks for sharing your views, and i'll try to remember that in the future, no promises thou. Now let me make one thing clear, I DON'T HATE KESS, I JUST THINK SHE GOT STALE. Now, lets get past that argument. Hey lets not forget she added an element in the early seasons that was needed, but eventually she got outshone, not saying anything bad about her, but thats just what i see.

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Thank you much, J. I do think, that, to discuss her in general, the writers dropped the ball in developing her further-giving her more to do, and be. Look what they did with Troi on TNG. Granted, Kes' options weren't there to serve on the bridge at Alpha Shift-but, could have on others, and expanded her skillset-something she would have been intellectually inclined to do, and wanted to;she started out just being Neelix's kitchen helper, and rose to the second position in Sickbay. I do think that re her 'nature', there are some people, like me, who are drawn to that, whereas others like B'Ellanna, especially , or Seven. It's a matter of taste-and I respect everyone else's. Just askin' for mine...something I enjoyed was the Doctor's family. Too bad the producers were influenced by future syndication preferences of 'mixed air dates' to do much in the way of story arcs....for ex, ''Real Life'' was a touching drama piece, and it expanded his character. Tom's advice near the end was most sage, and kind....and it showed what any st series can do-provide a wonderful and powerfully emotioal glimpse into the human condition. There are those who would be harsh to Voyager-in this all we STV fans can unite!-and that does bug me, tell you...it's the 'intensity' of said criticism that's the problem. I feel the series captured the essence of Star Trek, at its heart..and I feel closer to these wonderful characters, in some ways, than TOS..which will ever be on my favorite list. Tom put it well how their Family there came to be...sad thing is, the novels have fractured it too much..IMO. Well, it won't stop this Voyager fan-writer...because Kathryn will live on!!

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VOYAGER WILL LIVE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lest we forget the sacrifices of them, seven years. The writers who killed Kathryn are scatchy, but not stupid. And they can always bring her back, just look at "The Return" by Shatner. And to tell you the truth, oh, oh the bloody verdict of verdun. SORRY, SORRY, got side tracked watch history channel, it's a special on the Dark Ages. Any way they can pull a Q book where they bring her back, and keep the Borg from attacking, prevent Tom's dad from dying, and restore the Paris-Torres familt. Oh well, i'll have to see how Star Trek Voyager: Unworthy is.

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