North Star revisted

[Theunicornhunter 2]

Why would Trip take his harmonica on an away mission?

 

Do you think we will see these people again? Will they make it back to Earth?

 

Where are the rest of the Skagarans? If they killed most of the colonists - why didn't someone from the Skagaran home world come investigate? Where is the Skagaran home world?

[VaBeachGuy 12]

I doubt they will revisit the episode but I would enjoy it very much. Just as I would enjoy a revisit of Carbon Creek.

[Jim Phaserman 0]

I would be interested in seeing how things come along there.

[Stelfan 0]

I would be interested in seeing how things come along there.

Yeah, it would be great. They have made episodes on that theme in the previous series, but I don't think a revisit has ever been done.

[Guest Mike_Hines01]

I'd like to see an episode where they take them back to Earth, or maybe even turn the colony into a Starfleet colony and bring the current population up to date with everything.

[Klingonmike 0]

I'd like to see an episode where they take them back to Earth, or maybe even turn the colony into a Starfleet colony and bring the current population up to date with everything.

Thats a good idea, I like that!

 

As for Trip and his harmonica, why not take it with him? It could be something about Trip we did'nt know about before, that he always carries his harmonica with him. Maybe he likes to lean against the warp reactor and play a little tune from time to time!

[Indy 8]

When Trip was attempting to ride the horse and made the statement "how hard can it be? did anybody else think of the TOS episode "Piece of the Action" (I think that's the right episode) when Kirk was attempting to drive the car and said to Spock "how hard can it be?".

 

As for returning to the planet, Archer made the promise that he would return when their mission was accomplished. I hope they keep that promise.

 

I loved that they were teaching the children the history of Earth and especially about airflight at the end.

[TransporterMalfunction 1]

Great episode and the firefight at the end was great. However do I think there should or will be a second episode? No, I would rather see more new exciting stories rather than returning to old ones.

[BlueCrystal 0]

I enjoyed North Star and would like to see Archer and the crew return to visit the planet again. Did anyone else think that there might be some sparks between Archer and Bethany flying around? Could be interesting to watch a romance develop too. Maybe that's what Enterprise needs alittle sex and heat between the crew and a alien or two.

[mj 7]

I loved that they were teaching the children the history of Earth and especially about airflight at the end.

Me, too! Teach them to dream, to aspire!

[Adm.Speer 0]

Why would Trip take his harmonica on an away mission? 

 

Do you think we will see these people again?  Will they make it back to Earth? 

 

Where are the rest of the Skagarans?  If they killed most of the colonists  - why didn't someone from the Skagaran home world come investigate?  Where is the Skagaran home world?

The better question is why are the key members of the bridge crew going down on an away mission when they have a special forces unit? Why have a special forces unit that would be trained to infiltrate potentially hostile planets like this one. Why send done your engineer and first officer to do recon? Then a captain? It's absurd! The MACO unit would have the high tech tools for the job. Plus the firepower and skills how to use them! Archer's people don't so why send in the wrong people for the job?

 

Also why is it Archer is just lucky enough to chance apon this planet? Isn't that a bit odd? Clearly if the Xindi are the natives of this region and they didn't find it it's a good bet neither would Archer. It's probably very very out of the way. However if the Xindi are so adept at tracking the Enterprise shouldn't Enterprise actually lead the Xindi to this world?

 

Finally if the Xindi have left this colonie alone that could mean two things: A) they've never found out it or worse yet the colony is protected or run by a very powerful being! So if this colon is protected by some powerful being into collecting speices for experiements it's a good bet it would love to see the interaction between humans in a time locked bubble and humans 300 years more advanced. Talk about a socialogy test! So what does that leave Archer with? Well two choices: Risk the ship on potentially by giving the ship to an alien force into collecting other speices. Or, risking the human race's fate by giving he Xindi 6,000 future test subjects because of the ease that Enterprise is tracked. Finally neither of these options really give Archer an advantage!

 

Then you have the questions about the general premise of the episode:

 

1) Why are the Skags going 50 Light Years out of there way to get slaves? Clearly the Expanse is full of spieces that would probably be easier to obtain and more plentiful supply of.

 

2) Why is the skag colony lost? It wasn't checked on by other skag patrols? No government inquiry was comissioned to find out why it disappeared! That's absurd... Now way that would happen.

 

3) Finally if the humans destroyed all the alien technology it's a good bet without the means to produce middle 19th century technology that human society would take major leap backwards. Without the means to produce to machinery like Lathes, milling machines, boring tools or other machine tools once items like guns and clocks wore out they would be unable to reproduce them. Also without a means of natural reasouces there would be no way to produce any item made from metals! So again the society would revert back to a pre-production state.

 

4) If the colony is completely made out of displaced humans who cares about them or there ways? They're not going to benefit the mission and the pointial costs if the xindi find them are far too great! It's best to leave them alone!

 

That's what I see when I see this episode. An implusible poorly constructed pointless romp in the wildwest that's both rehashed and pointless! It was the 37's meets Spectre of the Gun. Each of those held alone respectfully field a need but cross there qualities as done in North Star and you can only get a crappy episode! Another fine moment from Berman and Braga productions!

[Trinneergirl 0]

That's what I see when I see this episode. An implusible poorly constructed pointless romp in the wildwest that's both rehashed and pointless! It was the 37's meets Spectre of the Gun. Each of those held alone respectfully field a need but cross there qualities as done in North Star and you can only get a crappy episode! Another fine moment from Berman and Braga productions!

 

No. What you see when you see the episode is what you see when you see any Enterprise episode Adm. You hate it cause you hate Ent.

 

:shrug:

 

It wasn't my favourite episode of the season, but it was an interesting study in how the oppressed can so easily become the oppressor. Of how hatred, based on fear and revenge can bring the worst out of anyone. Or any society.

 

Any episode of TV which doesn't cater to the thuggish vengeance brigade is good in my book.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

Why would Trip take his harmonica on an away mission? 

 

Do you think we will see these people again?  Will they make it back to Earth? 

 

Where are the rest of the Skagarans?  If they killed most of the colonists  - why didn't someone from the Skagaran home world come investigate?  Where is the Skagaran home world?

The better question is why are the key members of the bridge crew going down on an away mission when they have a special forces unit?

It would be boring, watching Archer sit in his chair and talk over his com panel. Besides, what Trek episode doesn't have the senior officers going on an away mission? :)

 

Why have a special forces unit that would be trained to infiltrate potentially hostile planets like this one.

They are on ENT to help deal with the Xindi, not go on the crew's missions for them.

 

Why send done your engineer and first officer to do recon?

Why not?

 

Then a captain?

[Picard]Captain's perogative![/Picard]

 

It's absurd!

Which is why Riker won't let Picard go on away messages. T'Pol and Spock didn't know better. :)

 

The MACO unit would have the high tech tools for the job.  Plus the firepower and skills how to use them!  Archer's people don't so why send in the wrong people for the job?

As I said, the MACO's are there as backup, they are not on Enterprise to do the crew's jobs.

 

Also why is it Archer is just lucky enough to chance apon this planet?

Same reason Voyager was lucky enough to encounter a Borg cube with Seven onboard.

 

Isn't that a bit odd?

This is Star Trek, odd is part of the story.

 

Clearly if the Xindi are the natives of this region and they didn't find it it's a good bet neither would Archer.

Why? If I find an meteor in the desert and you don't when you've lived there, does that mean that I should not have been able to find the meteor?

 

It's probably very very out of the way.

Based on what?

 

However if the Xindi are so adept at tracking the Enterprise shouldn't Enterprise actually lead the Xindi to this world?

So the Xindi can kill these people? Gee, that sounds nice... :)

 

Finally if the Xindi have left this colonie alone that could mean two things: A) they've never found out it or :wub: worse yet the colony is protected or run by a very powerful being!

Most likely the Xindi never found it.

 

So if this colon is protected by some powerful being into collecting speices for experiements it's a good bet it would love to see the interaction between humans in a time locked bubble and humans 300 years more advanced.

Maybe Q has something do to with this?

 

Talk about a socialogy test! So what does that leave Archer with? Well two choices: Risk the ship on potentially by giving the ship to an alien force into collecting other speices. Or, risking the human race's fate by giving he Xindi 6,000 future test subjects because of the ease that Enterprise is tracked.  Finally neither of these options really give Archer an advantage!

Strange idea. Perhaps an arc for season 4?

 

Then you have the questions about the general premise of the episode:

Like?

 

1) Why are the Skags going 50 Light Years out of there way to get slaves? Clearly the Expanse is full of spieces that would probably be easier to obtain and more plentiful supply of.

Maybe they have transwarp drive, so it wouldn't be out of the way.

 

2) Why is the skag colony lost? It wasn't checked on by other skag patrols? No government inquiry was comissioned to find out why it disappeared! That's absurd... Now way that would happen.

I've wondered this. Maybe the Skaggarians were looking to start a colony by themselves without help from the government?

 

3) Finally if the humans destroyed all the alien technology it's a good bet without the means to produce middle 19th century technology that human society would take major leap backwards. Without the means to produce to machinery like Lathes, milling machines, boring tools or other machine tools once items like guns and clocks wore out they would be unable to reproduce them. Also without a means of natural reasouces there would be no way to produce any item made from metals!  So again the society would revert back to a pre-production state.

It took them 300 years to return to a "Old West" way of life. Obviously, they overcame this set back. :wub:

 

4) If the colony is completely made out of displaced humans who cares about them or there ways? They're not going to benefit the mission and the pointial costs if the xindi find them are far too great! It's best to leave them alone!

What if you were raised by monkeys in a jungle and I found you while looking for the long, lost member, Indy. Should I leave you as a jungle boy and go find Indy? Nope, I'd help you out first, or at least tell you you're not a monkey. :wub:

 

That's what I see when I see this episode. An implusible poorly constructed pointless romp in the wildwest that's both rehashed and pointless! It was the 37's meets Spectre of the Gun.  Each of those held alone respectfully field a need but cross there qualities as done in North Star and you can only get a crappy episode! Another fine moment from Berman and Braga productions!

Really? I saw a Stargate SG-1 style episode with transplanted humans, but done as a cross between "The 37's" and TOS's old western-style episodes. :wub:

[Adm.Speer 0]

Why would Trip take his harmonica on an away mission? 

 

Do you think we will see these people again?  Will they make it back to Earth? 

 

Where are the rest of the Skagarans?  If they killed most of the colonists  - why didn't someone from the Skagaran home world come investigate?  Where is the Skagaran home world?

The better question is why are the key members of the bridge crew going down on an away mission when they have a special forces unit?

It would be boring, watching Archer sit in his chair and talk over his com panel. Besides, what Trek episode doesn't have the senior officers going on an away mission?

 

Why have a special forces unit that would be trained to infiltrate potentially hostile planets like this one.

They are on ENT to help deal with the Xindi, not go on the crew's missions for them.

 

Why send done your engineer and first officer to do recon?

Why not?

 

Then a captain?

Captain's perogative!

 

It's absurd!

Which is why Riker won't let Picard go on away messages. T'Pol and Spock didn't know better.

 

The MACO unit would have the high tech tools for the job.  Plus the firepower and skills how to use them!  Archer's people don't so why send in the wrong people for the job?

As I said, the MACO's are there as backup, they are not on Enterprise to do the crew's jobs.

 

Also why is it Archer is just lucky enough to chance apon this planet?

Same reason Voyager was lucky enough to encounter a Borg cube with Seven onboard.

 

Isn't that a bit odd?

This is Star Trek, odd is part of the story.

 

Clearly if the Xindi are the natives of this region and they didn't find it it's a good bet neither would Archer.

Why? If I find an meteor in the desert and you don't when you've lived there, does that mean that I should not have been able to find the meteor?

 

It's probably very very out of the way.

Based on what?

 

However if the Xindi are so adept at tracking the Enterprise shouldn't Enterprise actually lead the Xindi to this world?

So the Xindi can kill these people? Gee, that sounds nice...

 

Finally if the Xindi have left this colonie alone that could mean two things: A) they've never found out it or  worse yet the colony is protected or run by a very powerful being!

Most likely the Xindi never found it.

 

So if this colon is protected by some powerful being into collecting speices for experiements it's a good bet it would love to see the interaction between humans in a time locked bubble and humans 300 years more advanced.

Maybe Q has something do to with this?

 

Talk about a socialogy test! So what does that leave Archer with? Well two choices: Risk the ship on potentially by giving the ship to an alien force into collecting other speices. Or, risking the human race's fate by giving he Xindi 6,000 future test subjects because of the ease that Enterprise is tracked.  Finally neither of these options really give Archer an advantage!

Strange idea. Perhaps an arc for season 4?

 

Then you have the questions about the general premise of the episode:

Like?

 

1) Why are the Skags going 50 Light Years out of there way to get slaves? Clearly the Expanse is full of spieces that would probably be easier to obtain and more plentiful supply of.

Maybe they have transwarp drive, so it wouldn't be out of the way.

 

2) Why is the skag colony lost? It wasn't checked on by other skag patrols? No government inquiry was comissioned to find out why it disappeared! That's absurd... Now way that would happen.

I've wondered this. Maybe the Skaggarians were looking to start a colony by themselves without help from the government?

 

3) Finally if the humans destroyed all the alien technology it's a good bet without the means to produce middle 19th century technology that human society would take major leap backwards. Without the means to produce to machinery like Lathes, milling machines, boring tools or other machine tools once items like guns and clocks wore out they would be unable to reproduce them. Also without a means of natural reasouces there would be no way to produce any item made from metals!  So again the society would revert back to a pre-production state.

It took them 300 years to return to a "Old West" way of life. Obviously, they overcame this set back.

 

4) If the colony is completely made out of displaced humans who cares about them or there ways? They're not going to benefit the mission and the pointial costs if the xindi find them are far too great! It's best to leave them alone!

What if you were raised by monkeys in a jungle and I found you while looking for the long, lost member, Indy. Should I leave you as a jungle boy and go find Indy? Nope, I'd help you out first, or at least tell you you're not a monkey.

 

That's what I see when I see this episode. An implusible poorly constructed pointless romp in the wildwest that's both rehashed and pointless! It was the 37's meets Spectre of the Gun.  Each of those held alone respectfully field a need but cross there qualities as done in North Star and you can only get a crappy episode! Another fine moment from Berman and Braga productions!

Really? I saw a Stargate SG-1 style episode with transplanted humans, but done as a cross between "The 37's" and TOS's old western-style episodes.

Where do you start to debunk something as off base as this is...

 

First off Engineers don't get trained for covert operations! You don't send down the guy that fixes the warp engine to do the job that the MACO were claimed to be on the show for! There's no advanced technology that Enterprise knows of to warrant risking the key personnel that key the ships chain of command and ship functioning. It's just a poor drama device. Picard was a better a vision of the captain in many respects because for the most part he didn't pull the stupid boring cowboy antics of Kirk. Namely getting himself caught every time you around! Now they let Archer do this!

 

Every away mission is potentially a mission that involves dealing with the Xindi why is it that people can't see that? Enterprise should be at battle stations 24-7 during this mission. Every where they go the MACO should go in first and see what's what! Not the other way around.

 

When you accept the fact that personnel that's better suited to sitting back on the ship is being used in a meaningless pointless manner while the key componets of this so-called bold new direction never get used I have to ask where is the bold new element here? How many times have we seen Archer get captured in the pervious seasons the communicator, detained, bounty, and so many more. And in this season 3 how about the Xindi episode. They start right off on a bad rehashed foot. Yet for some odd reason no one can see that Archer is falling into the same predictable patterns as shown in Seasons 1 & 2... Big bold speeches then nothing as he gets captured and needs to be rescued yet again! That's Enterprise!

 

As for running into a planet of 6,000 displaced humans probability is outrageously low. The Xindi haven't used it for Bio research once they've found out what humans look like. Which is important because you can't do what they did with the Rajin episode and not know what humans look like! You need to have an idea of both there ship and physical parameters to be able to spot on in a crowd! Which means that Xindi either have left the population alone for some odd reason or just never ran into them. If they've never ran into them it's a good bet they're not on the beaten path. So that would mean in a region that the Xindi don't go into. Ie out of the way!

 

However if the Xindi are so adept at tracking the Enterprise shouldn't Enterprise actually lead the Xindi to this world?

So the Xindi can kill these people? Gee, that sounds nice..."

 

No that's not what I said at all. I said in simpler terms that Enterprise was putting the colony in danger by visiting it. Because the Xindi are so adoit at tracking Enterprise's movement for the most part. Well at least when B&B feel it's important to the drama but once that's too realistic and they've written themselves into a corner where Enterprsie would be destroyed in 3 episodes down the line the Xindi some how mess up and just stop looking for them. I guess the Xindi are part of the James Bond super villian school of thought were it's more thrilling create an eleborate but easily escapable trap then walk away dreaming of Enterprise's death? I don't know the truth is Enterprise shouldn't have lived past Rajin! The season really logically ended right there!

 

Clearly if the Xindi are the natives of this region and they didn't find it it's a good bet neither would Archer.

 

Why? If I find an meteor in the desert and you don't when you've lived there, does that mean that I should not have been able to find the meteor?"

 

Time is favor of the Xindi that sooner or later exploring for a new home world they would find the planet! So right there increases the odds that Xindi would find this planet. Plus the Xindi have travelled and explored the expanse both before the destruction of there planet and afterwards giving them even more time to find it. So your analogy isn't correct. It's more like a penny in water fountain with a certain date. If you throw one in 30 years ago and search for it the next 30 years as people throw more pennies it it's a good bet you'll find the right penny before some guy that just reaches in and picks it out. What I talking about is probability not that Archer doesnt' have a chance just that it's so low it's unbelievable.

 

So if this colon is protected by some powerful being into collecting speices for experiements it's a good bet it would love to see the interaction between humans in a time locked bubble and humans 300 years more advanced.

Maybe Q has something do to with this?"

 

Where do you get Q in this? Q is not a factor!

 

4) If the colony is completely made out of displaced humans who cares about them or there ways? They're not going to benefit the mission and the pointial costs if the xindi find them are far too great! It's best to leave them alone!

What if you were raised by monkeys in a jungle and I found you while looking for the long, lost member, Indy. Should I leave you as a jungle boy and go find Indy? Nope, I'd help you out first, or at least tell you you're not a monkey.

 

Ah are you on a military mission to save Earth? Does Indy have the cure for a bio-chemical attack or the formulas for designing a new chemical laser that will destroy a gaint metor from hitting Earth? If not then your analogy has no bearing with this Enterprise episode or season! Archer is on a mission that is both short of time and resources. He doesn't have the luxury to go out and spread the new age gospel the real issue of the episode should of been what is Archer willing to do to save Earth! Something they've clearly yet to show in a gritty realistic manner to this date. also at the end he effectively does just what I said he leaves so what his changes could last one month or ten years. It doesn't matter it's not important to the mission!

 

That's what I see when I see this episode. An implusible poorly constructed pointless romp in the wildwest that's both rehashed and pointless! It was the 37's meets Spectre of the Gun. Each of those held alone respectfully field a need but cross there qualities as done in North Star and you can only get a crappy episode! Another fine moment from Berman and Braga productions!

Really? I saw a Stargate SG-1 style episode with transplanted humans, but done as a cross between "The 37's" and TOS's old western-style episodes.

 

And what elements were so stargate?

 

As for getting your work force 50 lightyears away. Still doesn't make sense transwarp or not. It's like going 100 miles at 190 miles per hour just because your car can to get milk on the autobahn because your car can. When you can go 2 minutes at 25mph down to the corner store and get the same milk. It's not efficient use of time, resources and it's a logisical nightmare. At the time of the Skags frist pick up 300 years in Archer's past it good bet that many many races in Expanse were at a similar state at closer distance. What if you need more workers? Why travel 50k wasting all the resources that does when going 5 light years will yield the same result? There's viable reason to go the extra distance waste the fuel and brave the unknown on a mission that might not yield results that a closer mission would!

 

It took them 300 years to return to a "Old West" way of life. Obviously, they overcame this set back. 

 

How many of these industrious pioneers do you think were true gunsmiths or blacksmiths? Maybe one or two? No take way the tools and the resources needed to create more equipment basically put them at square one... Then the society has effectively lost that ability. The alloys in a space ship would far to hard for a blacksmith to work with. Remember a 1850's wagon train person wouldn't even know about the Bessmer process to create still. He would still be working with iron! (Which is why the Colt model 1873 SAA Army Revolver shown in the episode is too late for the wagon train era it uses 45 caliber Long Colt Cartridges. The 1850's were still cap and ball revolvers like the 1850 Model Dragoon III!) So once the art of metal working is lost it would as lost as the art of building a pyrmaid is to modern man! So you'd be lucky to see a society at the dawn of the 16th century when it comes to technology at best!

 

(code tags fixed, I hope I got all the quotes correct)

Edited March 17, 2004 by Alterego

[Captain Bolivar 0]

Forgetting the trivialities pointed out my Adm.Speer I'd like to say that North Star should not be revisited in a new episode. Archer has too small of a ship to help them out any further. Archer did say that in the future, when Starfleet has more ships, and when the people of the planet grow up a little, Starfleet would return for them. All I want out a future episode is a mentioning of North Star. If there is no mentioning, I will be just as fine with that as well. Heck, if they could justify it, I would be fine for a revisting too.