Who Is The Best...

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Feel free to add others to the list.

[master_q 0]

Well I guess I’ll pick Spock. The thing that makes him special (besides the regular facts and that he is the most well known) is his humanity side. Kirk said that he was the most human alien or sole he had ever encountered. It in a way (to a certain sense) gives him a more developed logic. I say this because of the facts that he has more of an objective and angle of view in the facts. One of my posts (that no one replied to ) was on if a non-emotion being could get a complete or ethical backing on philosophical dissuasions. That issue was kind of addressed by Spock’s brother and had an take on Vulcans. His brother was more of the lefty and Spock is actually in the middle and maybe in this case in the middle is the best.

 

What does everyone else think about this?

 

Here is the post that I made last time on this issue:

The Vulcans have something called IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations) which explains there idea and philosophy of logic plus there ideas of what that means and how it should be used in there civilization.

 

My question to you is how to you view there logic and philosophy?

I mean when looking at there philosophical perspective of logic and the lack of emotion what do you think of this and feel about it?

 

Do you agree when Spock’s half brother said the key is to understand ones own emotions and then can build up a philosophical outlook in the world?

 

For example emotion often dictates our philosophy, actions, ideas, and so on about specific events or occasions. So this could be looked at (I’m more playing devil’s advocate then being completely objective, so please don’t completely be negativity about what I say) as a barrier between them. Not in the light that separates them, but in the light that the dictations of oneself is driven by it.

 

I probably should clarify what I mean a bit more. Do you think lack of emotions hinder the development of one self and ideas of philosophical discussion? And so on . . . .

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

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One might argue that in the quest to fulfil the philosophy of 'Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations' that it would surely include an exploration of emotions.

 

I often find that I live my life in a better way when looking at things in a logical manner, for example, when I have a problem I try to look at it logically and I am usually able to resolve it. As Spock said:

"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end".

[Sam The Smuggler 1]

That's Saavik

 

 

I voted for Spock. The First Vulcan we met.

[Takara_Soong 4]

I picked Spock as well. He's the Vulcan we compare the rest to.

[master_q 0]

One might argue that in the quest to fulfil the philosophy of 'Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations' that it would surely include an exploration of emotions.

 

I often find that I live my life in a better way when looking at things in a logical manner, for example, when I have a problem I try to look at it logically and I am usually able to resolve it. As Spock said:

"Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end".

Most definitely. Looking at something ‘logically’ helps a considerable amount in solving a problem.

 

In certain cases emotion has really nothing to do with it. Like using logic to solve a geometry problem . . . example “prove that a^2 + b^2 = c^2"

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

[Lessa_Soong 0]

I voted Spock too.

 

I know that The Vulcans suppress their emotions because the passions of the people almost caused them to destroy themselves in the past. From the episode where T'Pol mind melds with that guy from the group of Vulcans that were trying to embrace their emotions, it was hinted that the Vulcan's had stronger...passions (i am talking love, hate, anger, rage, all of it) then we do. Perhaps it is harder for them to allow a merging of logic and emotions due to the problems of keeping a balance.

 

I remember after V'Ger that Spock was stunned that with the vast amount of knowledge that V'ger had amassed, it did not understand a simple feeling. This seemed to greatly impress Spock and touched him deeply. But alas, it seemed like they kind of let that fall by the way side in some ways after that movie.

 

The Vulcan Logic was needed in days gone by...and perhaps still is, but it is not easy to know if they would be ok if they tried to now embrace love and logic. Their passions could once agian rip them apart.

[trekkergirl220 0]

Definately spock!

[shinzonfan 0]

I probably should clarify what I mean a bit more. Do you think lack of emotions hinder the development of one self and ideas of philosophical discussion? And so on . . . .

 

 

Master Q

StarTrek_Master_Q@yahoo.com

First let me start by saying, Spock of course.

 

Second, to answer Master Q's question, No.

 

In Star Trek the lack of emotions or I guess I should say the suppression of emotions by the Vulcans made them evolve to a higher level of being. At least that is my view. Actually I don't think it is suppression either. They have found a way to think past their emotions. What I mean by that is for example; instead of giving in to their first response they are able to channel that response into a logical thought instead of a knee jerk reaction.

 

I know for myself, I fair much better when I use logic and keep my emotions in check. Although I do believe to truly evolve one must have empathy which I am not sure one could have without emotion. You must evolve past it.

[Captain Jean-Luc Picard 1]

TUVOK

[RikerChick 5]

I always liked Sarek

[Luvin1stdegree 0]

I picked Spock because he's the only Vulcan I'm familiar with.

[~Crims~ 0]

Savak was the vulcan in ST 2 and 3 right? Kirstie Alley wasn't that bad but holy crap, the girl they got to replace her in ST 3 was horrible.

[Takara_Soong 4]

Savak was the vulcan in ST 2 and 3 right? Kirstie Alley wasn't that bad but holy crap, the girl they got to replace her in ST 3 was horrible.

The actress was Robin Curtis. She was also in TNG's Gambit. She played Tallera. Did you like her in that?

[~Crims~ 0]

Savak was the vulcan in ST 2 and 3 right? Kirstie Alley wasn't that bad but holy crap, the girl they got to replace her in ST 3 was horrible.

The actress was Robin Curtis. She was also in TNG's Gambit. She played Tallera. Did you like her in that?

I honestly don't remember, let me go look up what episode that was... (real time posting haha). Ah yes, those were two really good episodes. I haven't seem them in quite a few years but I think I remember liking pretty much everyone on that episode, but my tastes of changed since then. I don't know, it's not that she was a bad actress, just I really dislike when someone new plays a character already seen. Like for me, Kirstie Alley is a very recognizable person, so watching her in ST 2 and then watching ST 3 with someone else playing a well established character who I don't know just didn't sit well.

[Trance-Canada 0]

well I picked T'Pol, really because I didn't want to choose Spock couse I never really watched TOS, and as for the rest I only know Tuvok and T'Pol, so I picked the better looking one, T'Pol.

[Theunicornhunter 2]

In Star Trek the lack of emotions or I guess I should say the suppression of emotions by the Vulcans made them evolve to a higher level of being. 

Higher than what? Higher than what they were or higher than other races. Even at that ...the term "higher" implies a value assessment. What criteria do we use to determine something is better or higher than another.

 

Here's a hypothetical? Who do you think is the strongest? A person who buys a bag of Hershey's kisses and eats two and only two every day - or a person who refuses to buy them at all because he/she will eat the entire bag over the weekend?

 

I think the Vulcans fall into the last category - they suppress what they can't control. Sure we all make better decisions when we let our initial emotional reaction subside and think clearly about a subject. But most of us are capable of doing that.

 

I think one of the best examples in Star Trek was when Counselor Troi was taking the Commander's exam. She had to make the choice of letting a friend die to save the ship.

 

Personally, I've always found the Vulcan philosophy contradictory; their arrogance in their own superiority is extremely emotional.

 

As for Master-Q's original question. Human beings possess emotions - so I assume they serve some evolutionary purpose. I would think someone who had a brain injury or illness and either lost their ability to experience or control emotion would have developmental problems.

 

However, part of our (human) natural developmental process is learning to control emotions. I find it fascinating to watch my two little nieces as they develop their logic. (In fact what a great scene to see T'Pol talking to a four year old.)

 

Okay, I am biased I think humans are superior to Vulcans.

[A l t e r E g o 9]

SPOCK. He's the only Vulcan I feel I ever had something in common with.

[adm. stickler 0]

you forgot voric form voyager

i picked tuvok

[shinzonfan 0]

In Star Trek the lack of emotions or I guess I should say the suppression of emotions by the Vulcans made them evolve to a higher level of being. 

Higher than what? Higher than what they were or higher than other races. Even at that ...the term "higher" implies a value assessment. What criteria do we use to determine something is better or higher than another.

Here's a hypothetical? Who do you think is the strongest? A person who buys a bag of Hershey's kisses and eats two and only two every day - or a person who refuses to buy them at all because he/she will eat the entire bag over the weekend?

I think the Vulcans fall into the last category - they suppress what they can't control.

 

 

Higher than what they were, more advanced, further evolved, than we are or they were. The criteria I would use as a baseline is the average person, for example, since we are comparing Humans with Vulcans. We can judge ourselves as well as other races based on our own average. Not that our average might not be their lowest, but I'm not sure where else we could start but with that with which we know best, ourselves.

 

As for your hypothetical, you are assuming that eating the whole bag of Hershey Kisses is a negative thing. Between the two people, if one person likes the candy but not as much as the other, it will be easier for that person to only eat two a day rather than the whole bag. I'm not sure that that person is stronger; they just don't like chocolate as much as the other.

 

I also do not think they "suppress what they cannot control." How does one supress something they have no control over?

 

You said, "part of our (human) natural developmental process is learning to control emotion." Development suggests a higher sense of being, further evolved, more advanced, does it not? Hence the Vulcans are more evolved (developed, to use your word) because they have mastered this.(?)

 

So then, I do not understand why you believe humans to be superior to Vulcans?

[Theunicornhunter 2]

As for your hypothetical, you are assuming that eating the whole bag of Hershey Kisses is a negative thing.  Between the two people, if one person likes the candy but not as much as the other, it will be easier for that person to only eat two a day rather than the whole bag.  I'm not sure that that person is stronger; they just don't like chocolate as much as the other.

 

I also do not think they "suppress what they cannot control."  How does one supress something they have no control over?

 

 

For the analogy to be meaningful it assumes that both people have the same desire for chocolate - I didn't specify that because it never occurred to me someone might not like chocolate. Dietary guidelines suggest consuming that much fat/calories in a day is not healthy. I saw it as an example of controlling the physical appetites. Other ST episodes, one VOY episode in particular dealt with how Vulcans learn to suppress their emotions. They still have them but they work to bury them deeply. Apparently they do it by meditation.

 

You said, "part of our (human) natural developmental process is learning to control emotion."  Development suggests a higher sense of being, further evolved, more advanced, does it not?  Hence the Vulcans are more evolved (developed, to use your word) because they have mastered this.(?)

 

The word development does not mean the same as evolving. I was referring the process of child development - ie the stages from infancy to adulthood. During this process a toddler will outgrow temper tantrums and learn more socially acceptable means of expression. I wouldn't say my four year old niece is a higher being than her younger sister but she is at a different developmental stage.

 

So then, I do not understand why you believe humans to be superior to Vulcans?

 

First of all I wasn't taking it all too seriously - because Vulcans are a fictional concept. But I think they are arrogant and that makes them hypocrits because their behavior doesn't match their professed beliefs.

 

Your premise appears to be they are superior because they don't exhibit emotions. That would be a value judgment. I have a different opinion I say we are superior because we do exhibit emotions. I know of no criteria to establish that one of us is "right" and one of us "wrong". I think it is a matter of what we value. Besides humans are quite capable of setting aside their emotions when circumstances require. And many professions/circumstances do require it. On the other hand our curiosity and our passion have often spurred our technological and social advances

[Tank 0]

I voted for Spock. Not only was he the role modal for every Vulcan to follow him but he is also just a good role modal for anyone. He was extreemly logical and objective in his reasoning, but he didn't allow his wisdom to stop with cold logic. It was Spock who once said:

 

"Logic is the begining of wisdom, not the end."

 

This I believe is a statment to live by.

[dsbs 0]

I picked Tuvok, but Sarek, Spock, and Voric were good to. I didn't like T'Pol (I believe I once heard this rumour that Vulcans did NOT have emotions...?), and I don't even know who the other one is....