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Captain Jean-Luc Picard

VOY didn't make the Borg weak...

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The Borg appeared a total of 12 times on VOY in terms of having a full episode.

 

Unity

Scorpion, Part I

Scorpion, Part II

The Gift

Drone

Dark Frontier, Part I

Dark Frontier, Part I

Collective

Unimatrix Zero, Part I

Unimatrix Zero, Part II

Endgame, Part I

Endgame, Part II

 

That's a total of 12 episodes out of 172 episodes from the series. With that said, you can't say the Borg were over used. Any other episode contained flashback scenes, hallucinations, Borg debris, things of that nature.

 

As for the Borg being made weak, I don't believe this is so. Each situation was very unique, not just a "Voyager kicks Borg butt" episode.

 

Anywho, what are your thoughts?

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(I think you stayed up way too late last night!! :lol: :rolleyes: )

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I for one would have liked to see more Borg Episodes :rolleyes:

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I didn't watch enough Voyager to really weigh in on the issue of the Borg being overused/making the Borg weak.From the episodes I did watch featuring the Borg,I felt they weren't ,well,Borg enough.They weren't as scary.Why all of the alliances and all of the rebel Borg factions scattered about(I mean Borg who weren't droned out and single-minded in pursuit of 'perfection').These beings need to be devastating.they need to scare the pants off of you everytime you even think they might make an appearance.They need to be dang near impossible to stop.And get rid of that Queen.The Borg were better,more 'alien',without the heirarchy thing.Keep the mystery.I want the Borg to be Star Trek's 'aliens'.Dark,malevolent,singleminded,unreasoning,deadly. :blink:

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Any idiot who said that the Borg was overused was completely illogical, I mean they were in the area where Borg was most abundant so of course they would bump into them. The only time where I saw them overused was in Q2, but it was just a kid that knew that Janeway worked her best when she was tensed.

 

:bow: Bel Ami :)

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Along with wanting to see More Borg. I also enjoyed finding out more about them.

 

And as much Voyager Revealed about them, They Probably barely Scratched The Surface.

 

And I'm sure they'll be back some day. What happened in "Endgame" was just a set back....a major one...but just a set back none the less :)

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In the original Halloween, we barely see Michael Myers. He is elusive. There one moment and then gone the next. We can see him out of the corner of our eye. A ghost that's mostly out of sight. But we FEEL him. THAT is the scary part. He's always there. In Haloween H2O, he's this gimp in a mask. In most scenes, up close and just stupid looking. Even old Jamie Lee isn't scared of him. SHE stalks him for heaven's sakes.

 

The Borg had this scary elusive quality on TNG. Even the Gothic style music when they appeared on the viewscreen at the end of Best of Both Worlds sent a shiver down your spine. The mystery. The fear that was this unknown unstoppable force was phenomenal. However. Voyager made them into the new Klingons. Even worse, we had Borg this. Borg that. A whole new villan could have served that purpose. The Borg were called in with their great reputation to save the flagging series. Now come on, we know that that is the truth. They were stripped, humiliated and left like rejects in a sequal. And the way they ended was just a testimony to the destruction that Voyager had on the most evil race in the galaxy.

 

I quote myself on previous posts - Borg Queen (waving fingernails in air and hising) "Jannnnnnewaaaaayyyyy"

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Awe C'Mon, They Were Gonna Show Up Anyways...It Was Established That Voyager Was In The Same Part Of Space The Borg Come From.

 

12 Times Out Of 200+..Oh Yeah, That's Overuse :thumbs:

 

But I Can Still Repect You Opinion :thumbs::thumbs:

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:b-day:

 

Unity - We learn that there are other free drones not just those encountered by Federation.

 

Scorpion, Part I - We learn there's tons of vessels out there & that the Collective can function at the Queen's absense:wow:

 

Scorpion, Part II - We learn there's a possible chance for peace with the Borg. We just have to find the right thing to do.

 

The Gift - We learn what a Drone would do to get back home & how honest they are :b-day:

 

Drone - We got a glimpse of the possible Borg future & learn about the functions of the Maturation chamber

 

Dark Frontier, Part I - We know even the death of their Queen won't stop them.

 

Dark Frontier, Part II - We learn that the Borg can shoot, blindly :thumbs:

 

Collective - We get to understand more about Borg kids & more functions of the Maturation chamber

 

Unimatrix Zero, Part I - We learn the Borg got their own other matters & not focussing on us alone

 

Unimatrix Zero, Part II - We got more glimpse & clues on how a Borg vessel functions from the inside :thumbs:

 

Endgame, Part I - We see they are still progressing, by creating a new Hub

 

Endgame, Part II - After this we'll see that even with the destruction of a Unimatrix, a Hub, & dozens of vessels. Won't stop the Borg.

 

When the next show shows about the Borg again. :hug:

 

IMHO, Voyager had made the Borg an astounishing great race to behold.

:thumbs: :borgqueen:

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Take into account also that the Borg in TNG were nothing but invasion fleets. Here, Voyager is in THEIR territory. Of course there are going to be differences. It's like seeing a military from a country and hating that country, regardless of what it has accomplished and its culture. Its closed-minded to think that every single drone on every single vessel in every single quadrant is hell-bent on conquering. Granted, it is the way of the Borg, but they are still sentient and have the organic components from every individual they assimilate, keeping a small bit of who they are at all times, however dormant. Rebellions are going to happen to any race, the Borg just have a knack for "adapting'...usually by killing the rebellious.

 

don't know where that was going...lol

 

and...Voyager gave us a good bit of insight to the culture of the Borg and how they tick. Tons of background and very informative. So overused? absolutely not.

Edited by chronic

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:hug:

 

Unity - We learn that there are other free drones not just those encountered by Federation.

 

Scorpion, Part I - We learn there's tons of vessels out there  & that the Collective can function at the Queen's absense:wow:

 

Scorpion, Part II - We learn there's a possible chance for peace with the Borg. We just have to find the right thing to do.

 

The Gift - We learn what a Drone would do to get back home & how honest they are :)

 

Drone - We got a glimpse of the possible Borg future & learn about the functions of the Maturation chamber

 

Dark Frontier, Part I - We know even the death of their Queen won't stop them.

 

Dark Frontier, Part II - We learn that the Borg can shoot, blindly  :)

 

Collective - We get to understand more about Borg kids & more functions of the Maturation chamber

 

Unimatrix Zero, Part I - We learn the Borg got their own other matters & not focussing on us alone

 

Unimatrix Zero, Part II - We got more glimpse & clues on how a Borg vessel functions from the inside :hug:

 

Endgame, Part I - We see they are still progressing, by creating a new Hub

 

Endgame, Part II - After this we'll see that even with the destruction of a Unimatrix, a Hub, & dozens of vessels. Won't stop the Borg.

 

When the next show shows about the Borg again. :)

 

IMHO, Voyager had made the Borg an astounishing great race to behold.

:thumbs:  :borgqueen:

Yeeep.

 

Scorpion, Part I - We learn there's tons of vessels out there  & that the Collective can function at the Queen's absense:wow:

Scorpion, Part II - We learn there's a possible chance for peace with the Borg. We just have to find the right thing to do.

Yes, we did learn in this episode that the Borg have hundreds if not thousands of ships, but it was not stated wether or not the Queen was absent. My assumption, upon seeing this episode, was that the Queen must have somehow "survived" the events of FIRST CONTACT. My theory is that she sent a "copy" of herself back in time on that sphere, much like you might "copy" a Windows OS and load it onto a friend's computer.

 

The Gift - We learn what a Drone would do to get back home & how honest they are :)

Heck yeah, what an awesome episode! I loved how they gave both Seven and Kes an equal amount of screen time since they were introducing one character while the other leaves in the same story. I wouldn't call the Borg honest though, they just think they're so superior that they don't need to lie. :)

 

Drone - We got a glimpse of the possible Borg future & learn about the functions of the Maturation chamber

Yep, another great episode! I almost cried at the end though... :thumbs:

 

Dark Frontier, Part I - We know even the death of their Queen won't stop them.

Dark Frontier, Part II - We learn that the Borg can shoot, blindly  :b-day:

Well, I just assumed that the essense of the Queen continued within the collective with her upper body cloned and stored deep inside Unimatrix 01. When Seven arrived, the Queen had a body constructed so that she may interract with her. However, the Queen saying she's from Species 125 throws off the cloning theory and implies that the Queen chooses a female from a species whom resembles the original Borg species and "promotes" that female drone to become a host to the Queen consciencous.

 

Collective - We get to understand more about Borg kids & more functions of the Maturation chamber

Yeeep. OMG, remember when Harry was partially assimilated? :) That was freeky! :hug:

 

Unimatrix Zero, Part I - We learn the Borg got their own other matters & not focussing on us alone

Unimatrix Zero, Part II - We got more glimpse & clues on how a Borg vessel functions from the inside :hug:

Yeah, this is deffinately one of my favoite Borg episodes. :b-day: I also liked how the Doctor how devised a virus to protect Janeway, Tuvok, and B'Elanna from the Borg Collective consciencous so they would not have to deal with the traumatic experrience that Picard did as Locutus as well as retain their individuallity.

 

Endgame, Part I - We see they are still progressing, by creating a new Hub

Endgame, Part II - After this we'll see that even with the destruction of a Unimatrix, a Hub, & dozens of vessels. Won't stop the Borg.

Well, I thought the hub was supposed to be one of the "six" that Janeway says Seven had once mentioned to her. Some fans seem to think it's a seventh, new hub though. :thumbs: Yeah, in this episode, the transwarp hub was destroyed, several Borg vessels, and Unimatrix 01 - the heart of the Borg. The Borg can suffer just about anything, including the death of the Queen whom she herself can survive. However, with the destruction of Unimatrix 01, I'm wonderring if they'll recover any time soon or even if the Queen herself survived.

 

When the next show shows about the Borg again. :)

The next Borg episode is "Regeneration" from ENT's 2nd season, in case you missed it. It was a continuation of ST:FC in a way. Some think it brings the Borg full circle by explaining why the Borg became interrested in Humanity in the first place. The producers said that ST:FC "alterred" the timeline which probably leads to the NX-01 being called "Enterprise" to honor the people from the future who saved Earth and helped repair the Pheonix as well as leading to the episode "Regeneration". I believe the "reason" the Borg become interrested in Humanity changes from the result of a reconassiance mission to a 200-year-old Borg signal with Earth's coordinates.

 

IMHO, Voyager had made the Borg an astounishing great race to behold.

Agreed. I think the Borg were something that Trek should have explorred in detail, so I was very happy to see VOY do just that. However, I think that if the post "Endgame" Borg are seen again, they need to do something to "evolve" them and keep them fresh.

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Interesting. This is a completely 180 degree turn from the responses I had viewed at a related discussion board I belong to. You may heard of it as TrekBBS.

 

Frankly it's nice to have the Borg as a continuing adversary for Voyager but this series had made them weak. Just take a look at the ways Janeway and company had kicked the Borgs' *buttocks* over the latter half of the seasons and you will know what I mean.

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When the next show shows about the Borg again. <_<

The next Borg episode is "Regeneration" from ENT's 2nd season, in case you missed it. It was a continuation of ST:FC in a way. Some think it brings the Borg full circle by explaining why the Borg became interrested in Humanity in the first place. The producers said that ST:FC "alterred" the timeline which probably leads to the NX-01 being called "Enterprise" to honor the people from the future who saved Earth and helped repair the Pheonix as well as leading to the episode "Regeneration". I believe the "reason" the Borg become interrested in Humanity changes from the result of a reconassiance mission to a 200-year-old Borg signal with Earth's coordinates.

Yeah I know about that episode, as u are well aware me mentioning it in my Borg Encounter theory.

 

What I mean by when the next show shows about Borg.

 

I mean judging by the timeline, after "2379" after Nemesis.

 

How would a 2373 Sphere show that they have survived a 2378 disaster? lol

 

Anyway, There are lots of Unimatrixes, hundreds of them, Though 01 is the main one, its lost is possibly considered insignificant.

 

"5 of 12 Secondary Adjunct of Trimatrix 942"

 

7's Borg boyfriend is from a "Trimatrix 942" That's already if I'm intreprating the words properly, "Tri" 3 generations of matrixes & reaches at least 942.

 

Unimatrix - 1 - ???

?matrix - 1 - ???

Trimatrix - 1 - 942 - ???

 

:frusty:

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before endgame they were invincible.. after endgame they were far from it.... how is that not weaker?

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That's only because Voyager got a head start, Those "Tech" are easily to be figuared out 1 day.

 

As we saw 3 scans by 3 Cubes, already anabled them to damage the armor quick, & then the Queen got more info on the armor & a single Sphere can damage them quick.

 

The best way to use this techs is to make quick destructions,

but since Voyager have to go pass over 30 vessels. There's no stopping the Borg from scanning them & adepting for future events.

 

So the Armor won't be as effective as it was first used. But it will provide more protection still, at least 20% extra :)

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What I heard about the Queen, was that she had the body of a Species 125 because she'd taken the body, her skull and spine are completely cybernetic (First Contact). She's easily distracted, poke her and the Collective crumbles. I believe that she was added so that Voyager had a chance of surviving. The Borg that the Enterprise ran into would have taken Voyager immediately.

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before endgame they were invincible.. after endgame they were far from it.... how is that not weaker?

I think the Federation advanced faster technologically than the Borg because the Borg assimilate technology while scientists in the Federation experiment and create new technology. Assimilation can't replicate sudden insights and unexpected discoveries that Federation scientists deal with everyday and take advantage of. This might be why the Borg became less of a threat over time. Just my 2 cents.

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What I heard about the Queen, was that she had the body of a Species 125 because she'd taken the body, her skull and spine are completely cybernetic (First Contact).  She's easily distracted, poke her and the Collective crumbles.  I believe that she was added so that Voyager had a chance of surviving.  The Borg that the Enterprise ran into would have taken Voyager immediately.

WRONG-O

 

the borg queen has always been there ever since the episode where picard becomes assimilated...

 

sides'

 

the borg didn't "become weaker" janeway simply thought of better ways to blow them up... IE

 

piccard always fought them to the death in an epic struggle dog fight style right?

 

well janeway had no qualms about transporting a torpedo right next to thier energy matrix as soon as there shields were down....

 

 

 

It was a matter of Strategy and brains not the actual borg themselves!

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1. the borg queen has always been there ever since the episode where picard becomes assimilated...

 

2. well janeway had no qualms about transporting a torpedo right next to thier energy matrix as soon as there shields were down....

some things i want to point out Vash, :assimilated:

 

1. The Queen existed at least 700 years before Picard met her. & there are unknown amount of Queens that died [in various ways] before the Borg met humans.

 

This is a logical assumption that the original race must have thought of using a Queen like figure to oversee their project.

 

2. Janeway wasn't planning to destroy that probe. She was trying to dissable it. It was an accident that it was too near the power matrix. :klingon:

 

the correct term about why Janeway get to thrash Borg more then Picard, is strategy [yes] & more knowledge & understanding about Borg that helps them survive.

 

Borg vessels destroyed by Voyager personally, excluding Endgame:

1 Coffin shape Probe by accidently placing the torpedo near the power matrix.

1 Cube controled by 6 kids by sending a feedback pulse through the tractor beam.

1 Diamond by collapsing the Conduit it was in which imploded the ship.

 

That's all, the rest are either destroyed by someone else, or by natural anomalies.

Not to mentioned, that they just ran away to safety.

:wub:

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YOU CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH BORG........NEVER!!!!!!!!! lol i think that voyager did a good job with the borg. :borgqueen: I always got myself excited when i saw the previews and realized it was a borg ep.

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What ruined the Borg was the introduction of the Borg Queen in "First Contact". After that, the Borg went from being terrifying to just another villian of the week.

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The borg queen was awesome, she made the borg great

 

the borg of first contact and voyager were far better than the borg of TNG

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The Borg appeared a total of 12 times on VOY in terms of having a full episode.

 

Unity

Scorpion, Part I

Scorpion, Part II

The Gift

Drone

Dark Frontier, Part I

Dark Frontier, Part I

Collective

Unimatrix Zero, Part I

Unimatrix Zero, Part II

Endgame, Part I

Endgame, Part II

 

That's a total of 12 episodes out of 172 episodes from the series. With that said, you can't say the Borg were over used. Any other episode contained flashback scenes, hallucinations, Borg debris, things of that nature.

 

As for the Borg being made weak, I don't believe this is so. Each situation was very unique, not just a "Voyager kicks Borg butt" episode.

 

Anywho, what are your thoughts?

 

I agree, the borg were only in 7% of the show (12 episodes out of 172) that's hardly overused. The Klingons, cardassians, and romulans were far more over used than that

 

and Voyager never actualy went up against a full size, full strength borg ship and won. The only time they wree able to do anything to a borg ship was when they went up against a small ship or an already weakened and damaged ship or they had assimilated crewmembers inside

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The borg queen was awesome, she made the borg great

 

the borg of first contact and voyager were far better than the borg of TNG

I respect your opinion but I couldn't disagree more. When the Borg first appeared, you couldn't communicate with them. They just appeared and did what they wanted and you were utterly helpless. Thats what made them terrifying. When the Borg Queen came along, suddenly you could talk to them, make deals,etc. It took away their terror and made them just like any other villian.

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The Borg HAD to be 'beatable', certainly from a writer's perspective on the series. Natually. Assimilate one teeny ship(though with a FINE captain and crew!); no problem. I am far from a Borg expert, but I seem to recall the Queen remarking something to Janeway, to the effect that they could have assimilated Voyager at any time, but, magnanimously(my word) they elected to allow them to go on their way. And by beatable, as above, I mean able to eek by in this or that engagement. Of course, crippling that Unicomplex in the finale' was by no means a small victory-but, is this the END for them....I wouldn't be so foolish as to say 'yes'....

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The Borg HAD to be 'beatable', certainly from a writer's perspective on the series. Natually. Assimilate one teeny ship(though with a FINE captain and crew!); no problem. I am far from a Borg expert, but I seem to recall the Queen remarking something to Janeway, to the effect that they could have assimilated Voyager at any time, but, magnanimously(my word) they elected to allow them to go on their way. And by beatable, as above, I mean able to eek by in this or that engagement. Of course, crippling that Unicomplex in the finale' was by no means a small victory-but, is this the END for them....I wouldn't be so foolish as to say 'yes'....

 

well the borg could have assimilated everyone in the alpha quadrant if they realy wanted to. all they had to do was send a dozen ships at once. A small number for them but it would be devastating to the federation

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To quote a villain from the old 'Batman' series....EGG-ZACTLY!!! Lucky for all concerned they didn't. Eh, they prbably 'collectively' -ouch-decided, ' hey, if we assimilate the Federation, we'll have to get somebody else to mess with' Heh.I have had the very same thought as Vgrbabe stated, any number of times in my ponderings of things Trek.

Edited by Voyager recruit

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ok, so they tested the water in Best of Both Worlds and sent one cube and it took everything the federation had and they got their butts severely kicked. The federation lost how many ships and people? and the borg only lost one cube. So they know now that one cube is tough for them....so send five, that's it, no more federation.

 

of course they probably just didn't consider the federation a big threat or that they had any technology the borg wanted....until Admiral Janeway kicked their butts

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