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Stephen of Borg

A Question For Those That Like Enterprise

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I've noticed how some didn't really care for season three that much. I was just wondering what it was about season three that didn't really appeal to you? Was the Xindi story arch just too long? Just like a fellow ENT fan's opinion

Edited by Gamera

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I enjoyed the Xindi arc. I felt that Enterprise was really starting to gain momentum in Season 3.

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I liked Season 3 much better than Seasons one and two, although I think Season 4 was the best.

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I too liked the Xindi arc. I felt that with season 3, ENT finally hit it's stride. I liked all the plot twists and turns, and the difficult decisions that Archer and the crew had to make. The script writing was excellent also. All in all, I thought it was an excellent season.

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I liked season 3 also but I wouldn't say I liked it better then any of the other 3 seasons. I enjoyed all 4 seasons for different reasons.

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I would have to say that I did not mind season 3 but IMHO it seems to be a season wasted. Why invent a new race when their is so much stories that could have been told to fill in the gaps in trek history. Why not start with more storys with the romulans. Just my thoughts

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I always felt ENT was doing double duty; filling in the history gaps while also creating new material. Season 1 and 2 were mixed bags while season 3 and 4 were arcs devoted to each.

 

As new material; season 3 was allot of fun.

 

I always thought the point of their creation was so they could later be revisited at the end of the timelime (post NEM.)

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It's not that I didn't like season 3, I just liked season 4 more.

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I did not dislike all of season 3. I just did not like the way the relationship between Trip and T'pol developed and having to watch it, to the extent that I would not buy the entire season three dvd set. I would buy selected episodes.

 

I found the struggle with the Xindi to be exhilarating, both in terms of waiting with anticipation for the next peice of te puzzle, and in terms of Archer's struggles in having to make hard choices. I love the fact that in the end Archer and company found the right 'bad guys,' who turned out NOT to be the Xindi, but the sphere-making aliens, and I loved that in the end the humans helped the Xindi, whose actions had led to som much death on Earth. I thought the fact that in the end the Xindi had to struggle with some of their most basic beliefs about their 'benefactors' made for very good drama. I thought the whole Xindi arc had good action ( lots of battle scenes) and good drama ( the struggle with heavy loss of life and loss of loved ones, the struggle with 'faith' for the Xindi, the struggle with conscience and grey areas with regard to right and wrong.).

 

But the producers and writers went with the usual cheap shots and low blows with regard to the relationship and T'pol's drug addicition. I don't want to own those episodes.

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I actually like Season 3 best - finally Enterpise had an aim to it and a focus - something it had seriously lacked in the first two seasons.

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I never found Season 3 appealing.

Season 2 will always be my favourite, as I'm yet to see season 4.

 

I definetly think that they overdid the Zindi thing, but it wasn't THAT bad

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I've been re-watching Enterprise for a couple of months (the DVD's). I again find myself with basically the same opinion as when it was in first run. Season 3 was entertaining, good storyline but I think the whole Xindi arc just lasted too long. It could have been done, I believe in 6 to 10 episodes. 12 at the most. Looking back now, we were only given 4 seasons and I look at season 3 as time wasted in some ways.

 

There was such a fertile field of possibilities there with Shran and the Andorians, so many good stories that could have been told building up an alliance between Earth and Andoria and then Earth being the bridge of friendship for Andoria and Vulcan leading to the Federation.

 

My biggest disappointment with Enterprise is how little of Shran there is in it. There were such great possibilities there. I still think it would have been an awesome thing for Andoria to be upset at Earth having a Vulcan officer on Enterprise and not an Andorian and requesting that they have a representative assigned to the ship... Shran of course. Then he'd have been a regular and on every episode.

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I've been re-watching Enterprise for a couple of months (the DVD's). I again find myself with basically the same opinion as when it was in first run. Season 3 was entertaining, good storyline but I think the whole Xindi arc just lasted too long. It could have been done, I believe in 6 to 10 episodes. 12 at the most. Looking back now, we were only given 4 seasons and I look at season 3 as time wasted in some ways.

 

There was such a fertile field of possibilities there with Shran and the Andorians, so many good stories that could have been told building up an alliance between Earth and Andoria and then Earth being the bridge of friendship for Andoria and Vulcan leading to the Federation.

 

My biggest disappointment with Enterprise is how little of Shran there is in it. There were such great possibilities there. I still think it would have been an awesome thing for Andoria to be upset at Earth having a Vulcan officer on Enterprise and not an Andorian and requesting that they have a representative assigned to the ship... Shran of course. Then he'd have been a regular and on every episode.

 

I always felt ENT was doing double duty; filling in the history gaps while also creating new material. Season 1 and 2 were mixed bags while season 3 and 4 were arcs devoted to each.

 

As new material; season 3 was allot of fun.

 

I always thought the point of their creation was so they could later be revisited at the end of the timelime (post NEM.)

 

I still say season 3 was allot of fun but, ok, hindsight, and all that, I will concede that, given the excellent stories they were telling in season 4; reducing some of that hugh Xindi arc for the sake of more season 4 type stories would have been preferable. :roflmao:

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I can see how one could weary of a long, seaason-wide arc...but it did give the main characters some things to delve into, such as T'Pol's trellium addiction, Trip's coping with losing Elizabeth, and his resultant anger, Jon having the tremendous burden, and pressure to make this mission succeed..or lose everything back home. After the whole thing was over, it sank in, all the compromises, and degrees he had to push the envelope of right and wrong...As for S. four, the tie-ins to TOS were great. I have read that the cast was not keen on the Mirror two-parter, as this was their last year, and they rightly would feel that they would want to concentrate on their this-universe versions of themselves...but I loved seeing the Tholians, and anywhere...terrific to finally see what one looked like from the skull, down...I have to say I'm partial to the old Gorn, rubber suit or not...we got to see how the Klingons went from smooth to ridged skull-a clever tie-in with the Augment/Khan connection...we got to se T'Pau, younger-self, and another Surak-in Jon's head!...One of my favorite Enterprise moments, came in the finale'(a little too much Riker-holodeck, but I do like good ol Will, and Deanna) -AND THEY KILLED TRIP!! (But the novels fixed that, thankfully!) but at any rate, when Jon is about to give his speech, and he is there with T'pol, whom he has been through so much with, his faithful, beloved friend and exec...the hug was a nice moment. And one last big grin from kind Phlox...however, I wanted much to hear some of that speech!!....LONG LIVE ENTERPRISE!!....

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My biggest disappointment with Enterprise is how little of Shran there is in it.

 

I would have liked to have seen more Shran, too, though perhaps for some differing reasons. I love Jeffrey Combs. :roflmao:Deep Space Nine really spoiled me on the depth and reoccurance of its reoccuring characters.

 

I enjoyed season three. I think it had some pretty good stories and the crew had to deal with some tough situations. The question is, could that have been done without creating a new race and without all of the weirdness that was going on. I don't remember exactly everything that happened, but I think there were some pretty far stretches and didn't they end up going back to Nazi times? I mean... they had the Klingons and the Romulans to have fights with. How about showing some more of that "how they became enemies" stuff? I definitely would have like to see more of the Andorians. They're shown once or twice in TOS and mentioned a couple of times in the later series but we never get to really see them and who they are. I would have liked more of the formation of the Federation stuff. I wasn't too thrilled about the whole Temporal Cold War, either. There were all these stories and things they could have done with the rich Star Trek lore, and they go and introduce completely new elements in the Temporal Cold War and the Xindi conflict. Seriously. What? I really did like Enterprise, but looking back on it, those two things are probably some of the low points. Not saying that the stories that came out of it are low points, but the fact that they used them as vehicles.

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Yes, I forgot to say something about Shran, as well...Jeffrey helped create a unique character, didn't he? I always liked that trading of favors between them. I can picture it continuing for years, and the two are in the later stages of their careers, sitting around and joking about the fact. BTW...from the ep ''Mirror Darkly, P. 2'', there is the scene in which the other Archer has researched his counterpart on the Defiant Captain's terminal..for those who have seen it up-up close in screencap, there is a bio ref, among others, that has Jon later in his career as Ambassador to Andoria-and as being made an honorary member of the Andorian Guard!, in addition to serving as C-In-C of Starfleet, and both a mem and head of the Federation Council...not a bad legacy!! Have to say, though, to ref Malcolm's comment at series' end, I always held out hope-or imagined the idea-that Jon commanded one more Starfleet vessel-one of the later, Daedulus class..but that's my writer's wishful thinking....to Shran again, I also liked his affection for Jhamel, a sweet, and courageous young woman....I did read , at Wikipedia, I believe, that the producers had considered making him a part of the crew...hmmm....Re the Nazi mention, that was in the aftermath of destroying the Xindi Weapon, and Archer finds himself on a cot in a German camp..sent there by a desperate Daniels(though he did not know this yet). At any rate, it's fun to see someone post some Enterprise comments, that are fairly constructice, and esssentially supportive of the series. I enjoy the chance to add my thoughts-for whatever they are worth! Many thanks to Alterego, I believe....way to go...

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I just recently watched the special features disc for season 4 and in it there was mention that there were plans to make Shran a member of the Enterprise crew in season 5.

 

Knowing that just pisses me off at the cancellation all over again. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 would have been a total blast setting the franchise up for movies covering the Romulan War and the foundation of the Federation.

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I just recently watched the special features disc for season 4 and in it there was mention that there were plans to make Shran a member of the Enterprise crew in season 5.

 

Knowing that just pisses me off at the cancellation all over again. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 would have been a total blast setting the franchise up for movies covering the Romulan War and the foundation of the Federation.

Not glad you had to be so perturbed, VB....but appreciate a fellow longtime Trekker, and TOSer, who enjoyed the series, like myself. Glad you're in our camp, my friend.I so agree it would have been great to see how it all unfolded....

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Personally, I liked the continuing story arc of the Xindis and felt that Enterprise was finally gaining its sea legs. Season four confirmed it for me but alas, TPTB at Paramount didn't agree. It did leave a lot of unanswered questions though about the Suliban and the Xindis though.

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The Xindi Arc was good, but if cutting it in half would have meant making Shran a regular and more stories geared at forming the Federation then I'd have been all for it.

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I just recently watched the special features disc for season 4 and in it there was mention that there were plans to make Shran a member of the Enterprise crew in season 5.

 

Knowing that just pisses me off at the cancellation all over again. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 would have been a total blast setting the franchise up for movies covering the Romulan War and the foundation of the Federation.

Oh wow, seriously? Man that does sting...Shran rapidly became one of my favorite Trek characters upon his introduction. I would really have loved to see him as a regular as well.

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Yeah, I had thought and probably posted many times that Shran should be a member of the crew but it wasn't until a few days or a week ago that I watched the special features disc and they talked about what season 5 would have had in store for it and that was the biggest thing.

 

I really think that they 'dropped the ball' with the cancellation, those last 3 seasons would have been awesome. I understand that the traditional ratings weren't good but I honestly believe that with all of the money that they made and are making off Star Trek (past, present and future) that they 'owed' us those 3 seasons.

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I just recently watched the special features disc for season 4 and in it there was mention that there were plans to make Shran a member of the Enterprise crew in season 5.

 

Way to start my day off on the wrong foot. Thanks. :)

 

Although Shran was a captain and a very strong-headed command kind of guy. I would have a hard time seeing him being a subordinate to Archer! And T'Pol. They wouldn't knock her out of the first officer's spot, would they?

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Better not!! Heh heh. Nah...I doubt that. She was established there, you know? Her Yang to his Yin, as the saying goes, and certainly, as we saw so exemplified in 'These are the Voyages', how much she meant to Jon, and enought imes before, as well. And of course she was close, in her Vulcan way, to him...

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I just recently watched the special features disc for season 4 and in it there was mention that there were plans to make Shran a member of the Enterprise crew in season 5.

 

Way to start my day off on the wrong foot. Thanks. :)

 

Although Shran was a captain and a very strong-headed command kind of guy. I would have a hard time seeing him being a subordinate to Archer! And T'Pol. They wouldn't knock her out of the first officer's spot, would they?

 

I can't see Shran in a subordinate role either. But it would have been interesting to see the Andorians, humans, and Vulcans trying to work together with their different tempraments.

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They did set the stage with Shran losing his ship, what role on the ship would he have had though? That's an interesting question that I hadn't really considered. I too don't believe he'd have been subordinate to T'Pol, more likely he'd have been an Andorian 'ambassador' of sorts or an 'adviser' similar to the role T'Pol initially came aboard in. T'Pol having joined Starfleet would be the second in command and a Starfleet officer where Shran would still be an officer in the Andorian Imperial Guard. So officially he'd have been subordinate only to Archer but he couldn't over ride T'Pols orders on the ship.

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The Xindi themselves were ok. Finally a enemy consisting of multiple races just like the Federation. But the whole idea of them threatenign to destroy earth and Archer going on a full season vengeance rampage was very bad and ill conceived, and disrupted the flow of the series.

 

Not that Enterprise was even anywhere near the class of the previous three Star Trek series. Even Voyager was heads and torsos better.

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I greatly disagree about Enterprise not being in the same class as the other 3 modern Treks. I rank it above Voyager personally. At one time I may have even ranked it above TNG but that would be based only on the first 4 seasons of TNG vs. the 4 seasons of Enterprise.

 

I've always raked DS9 at the top of the list of all of the series but in reality nothing can top TOS, it's just that DS9 is my favorite series overall.

 

I've said it many times on the boards though, the last 3 seasons of Enterprise (the 3 seasons that never were... seasons 5, 6 and 7) had such promise with so many great stories that never got told. It's really disappointing, especially if it turns out that Enterprise was cancelled to make room for this new movie.

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I greatly disagree about Enterprise not being in the same class as the other 3 modern Treks. I rank it above Voyager personally. At one time I may have even ranked it above TNG but that would be based only on the first 4 seasons of TNG vs. the 4 seasons of Enterprise.

 

I've always raked DS9 at the top of the list of all of the series but in reality nothing can top TOS, it's just that DS9 is my favorite series overall.

 

I've said it many times on the boards though, the last 3 seasons of Enterprise (the 3 seasons that never were... seasons 5, 6 and 7) had such promise with so many great stories that never got told. It's really disappointing, especially if it turns out that Enterprise was cancelled to make room for this new movie.

There's no way Enterprise was canceled to make room for Star Trek. Orci and Kurtzman were approached about Star Trek during the production of Mission Impossible III which began in July 2005. Enterprise was officially canceled on February 2nd, 2005 with the final episodes airing on May 13th, 2005.

 

Enterprise was canceled for the simple reason that it was one of the most expensive shows on television to produce at the time and its ratings were terrible (no matter what flaws exist in the Neilsen system, all shows are graded on that system, and Enterprise fared poorly). It really is a simple decision to understand from a business perspective. Its unfortunate, but that's what it ultimate boils down to. Does Paramount think they can make money producing Star Trek?

 

Another thing that is very important to consider is that 'Star Trek' was Paramount's last chance to maintain control of the franchise. They had a certain amount of time after the cancellation of Enterprise to make a viable product with the Star Trek brand or the rights of the franchise would go to Les Moonves and CBS and I really don't think we want to see what he would have done with the franchise (i.e. direct to DVD).

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There's no way Enterprise was canceled to make room for Star Trek. Orci and Kurtzman were approached about Star Trek during the production of Mission Impossible III which began in July 2005. Enterprise was officially canceled on February 2nd, 2005 with the final episodes airing on May 13th, 2005.

 

Enterprise was canceled for the simple reason that it was one of the most expensive shows on television to produce at the time and its ratings were terrible (no matter what flaws exist in the Neilsen system, all shows are graded on that system, and Enterprise fared poorly). It really is a simple decision to understand from a business perspective. Its unfortunate, but that's what it ultimate boils down to. Does Paramount think they can make money producing Star Trek?

 

Another thing that is very important to consider is that 'Star Trek' was Paramount's last chance to maintain control of the franchise. They had a certain amount of time after the cancellation of Enterprise to make a viable product with the Star Trek brand or the rights of the franchise would go to Les Moonves and CBS and I really don't think we want to see what he would have done with the franchise (i.e. direct to DVD).

 

There's "no way"? They were approached sometime in 2005 but that means that the idea was there before they were approached. Of course I'm not suggesting that this was the reason for the cancellation. I simply said that I'd be disappointed IF that was the reason.

 

I also don't accept that 'Star Trek (2009)' was their 'last chance' just as i don't accept that they 'had' to create an alternate and parallel timeline in order to attract new viewers. Those were the choices that were made, but they could have been just as successful had they made other (and some would say the right) choices. Another thing that I don't accept is everyone saying that the franchise was "dead". The way the franchise will 'die' is if the people in charge turn their backs on the very fans that made the franchise possible.

 

As for the Nielsen Ratings, I don't believe they're relevant any longer. They're out dated. Don't forget, it was the "ratings" that got Star Trek cancelled in 1969, but shortly after the cancellation they began tabulating the ratings differently and come to find out that under the new method Star Trek was a top rated show that never should have been cancelled.

 

Don't put so much faith in Hollywood and the studios. I've learned through family members that are connected to the industry a little bit about how they work out there and they do NOT deserve your faith.

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